I have been a little confused lately. Obviously in church and sunday school we are taught that "the new and everlasting covenant" taught in the D&C (I think that's where it is anyway) is talking about being sealed in the Temple. However, since leaving the church and doing more studying I thought I read somewhere that it was actually Polygamy, and that those in the highest glory of the Celestial Kingdom will have to practice polygamy. For those of you who know more than me, will you help me out. Where do I reference this? Is this true? Where do I find the facts on this? Thanks!

http://mormonthink.com/joseph-smith-polygamy.htm#salvation



In 1891 the First Presidency and Apostles of the Mormon Church made the following statement in a petition to the President of the United States: "We formerly taught to our people that polygamy or celestial marriage as commanded by God through Joseph Smith was right; that it was a necessity to man's highest exaltation in the life to come." (Reed Smoot Case, vol. 1, page 18)

"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them."
- The Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 11, p. 269

-"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266).

It's D&C 132, and I think it's both. Even in the section summary, it says,
"Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7)."

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng

TSCC is hardly shy about changing its scriptures.

lulu Wrote:
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> TSCC is hardly shy about changing its scriptures.

or its "history" .....whatever it is!!!!

What ever (LIES) it takes in any given instance to keep MOReMONey funds rolling in !!!!!

LD$ Inc = Revisions R Us !!!!!!

>> --The prophet's inquiry of the Lord--He is told to prepare himself to receive the new and everlasting covenant-- <<

Okay, what was the Prophet's inquiry? Verse 1 tells us JS wanted to know how it was that ancient prophets could have many wives and concubines. So the main topic of the "revelation" was polygamy. Verse 2 says the Lord "will answer thee as touching this matter." What matter? multiple wives and concubines. The Lord didn't say, "I'll get to that, but first let me take this opportunity to tell you about celestial marriage, which doesn't necessarily include polygamy."

The rest of D&C 123 is about how this supposedly superior form of marriage makes it okay to have a lot of wives. If you read D&C 123 from the point of view of a guy who has been caught with his pants down and now he's trying to BS his way out of it, everything makes perfect sense.

Stray Mutt Wrote:
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EXCELLENT POINTS !

> The rest of D&C 123 is about how this supposedly
> superior form of marriage makes it okay to have a
> lot of wives. If you read D&C 123 from the point
> of view of a guy who has been caught with his
> pants down and now he's trying to BS his way out
> of it, everything makes perfect sense.

or perhaps perFUCKED MORmON sense

The church never claimed that there was a difference between temple marriage and plural marriage until it acceded to US law. Then they asserted that the two were different.

But if you read the chapter, the only way it makes sense is if the two are identical. It's hard to separate out the later gloss, but if you can manage that I think you'll find that the N&EC is indeed plural marriage.

The descriptive notes at the beginning of each section are not part of the "revelation." They are simply editorial notes that the church changes at will when making new editions. No special "revelation" status is claimed for the descriptive notes. Logically, you can argue that they reflect the position of the leadership of the Church at the time that the relevant edition was published. But, still, they are not part of the revelation that supposedly is the "scripture" that people are required to follow.

There would be no reason for D&C 132 to threaten damnation to people who reject this NEW covenant, if it could be satisfied by uncontroversial monogamy.

The first verse clearly introduces the subject matter of the revelation as being plural marriage:

"1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—"

This is soon followed by the threat of damnation against those who reject it:

"4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory."

Problems for Mormons:

(1) The wording of the revelation makes it clear that Joseph Smith was very interested in having many "wives" and the "revelation" on this was not initiated by God but by Joseph Smith ("inasmuch as you have inquired"-- translation: "Well, since you're expressing an interest and are asking..."). In other words, even if you take the "revelation" seriously, it clearly indicates that this was not something that God just unexpectedly dumped on Joseph Smith. God's response to Joseph Smith's "inquiry" was an off-hand, "well, now that you mention it" kind of revelation. Bottom line: Joseph Smith wanted God to say it was okay for him, just like it was for Abraham et al.

(2) Polygamy mathematically doesn't add up. As a result, you get powerful men like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young essentially stealing exaltation away from less powerful men. By building up their harems, Joseph, Briggy and the other leaders were often taking potential marriage partners away from others. Worse, they were often caught trying to get already married women to enter into plural marriage with them (which I'm quite sure was the way that they excused adulterous intentions) rather than with their own husbands.

One particularly hideous example was when Bishop Snow of Manti decided he wanted to marry a young woman who was already the girlfriend of Thomas Lewis (an appropriately aged young man). Thomas Lewis stood up to them. As a result, he was abducted in the night and castrated by Bishop Snow's henchmen. There's your "new and everlasting covenant" in action right there.

in a number of verses about Abraham, such as verse 34:

"34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? BECAUSE THIS WAS THE LAW; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises."

As for the hapless Mormons in the latter days, D&C 132 does not necessarily mean that plural marriage is for everyone, but that exaltation is conditional upon it. In other words, the N&EC is a very elitist doctrine. Certain chosen patriarchs are entitled to exaltation on the condition that they practice plural marriage (i.e. harem building) in accordance with correct principles. Little Sammy Schlubberman down the lane is not intended to get exaltation. It's for big Abraham-like Patriarchs, such as Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and their fellow club members.

As verse 64 also makes clear that monogamy is not an option when one of the big boys' exaltation is on the line:

"64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law."

In other words, when Heber comes in and says to his first wife that he has received the "keys" to the exalting principle of plural marriage and therefore will be marrying Nancy Sue next week, his first wife best be supporting that exercise of the keys 100%. Otherwise, damnation and destruction is coming her way by express courier. There is no notion that she can say to Heber that she wants to get exaltation through a monogamous eternal marital relationship. No plural marriage = no exaltation. If a first wife rejects that, the husband who wants exaltation can proceed with other women and the rebellious first wife gets flushed down the cosmic toilet.

Current LDS mythology downplays the link between polygamy and the new and everlasting covenant.

See these:
http://institute.lds.org/manuals/eternal-marriage-student-manual/m1-marriage1-1b.asp

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/New_and_Everlasting_Covenant

Clearly Joseph Smith tied the New & Everlasting Covenant and Polygamy together very tightly in D&C 132.

However, to be fair, this is because the concept of New & Everlasting Covenant was already around and he thought tying it in would give him more leverage with Emma to get her to accept it.

I would argue that the New & Lasting Covenant was not original conceived as having anything to do with Polygamy. However, in Joseph Smith's bid to go after Polygamy he tied them together. We probably like to tie them too tightly together, but for the LDS church to try to step away completely from this is even more disingenuous.

Do you have any evidence that they were originally separate? I ask because that is not my impression. I don't believe there was any discussion of the N&EC until polygamy needed a rationalization.

That could be wrong, so if you have information that will set me straight, please set me straight!

One of the Temple Lot church Q12 guys told me it was baptism. He said go look at the original book of commandments. Making it about polygamy or marriage happened after JS became a fallen profit according to them.

I guess even the main church recognizes at least part of that idea: http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-021-22.asp

I'm trying to find the reference, but Todd Compton says that N&EC was a code for polygamy in Nauvoo.

In Boyds book, The Holy Temple, he spins it as baptism.

It is so obvious that Joseph Smith was going through a mid-life crisis (as so many people do) and wanted to experiment sexually. However, he was married. Suddenly "discovering" that God wanted men to practise polygamy was an easy way out of his dilemma, and he obviously couldn't have cared less that polygamy reduces women to the status of concubines in a man's harem. This misogynistic practice stems from the dark ages when women were considered chattels and had no rights whatsoever. Time to kick it into the garbage can of history! The year is 2012 AD, not 2012 BC, and women (at least in First World countries, but sadly not in Third World countries) are considered men's equals.

+1

This is such an eye opening statement to LDS members it makes them have to take sides.

In SS the teacher made a point of telling us the New and everlasting covenant was Temple Marriage not Polygamy. I remember how impassioned he was -- and Y & D. (young & dumb)

This issue alone should cause LDS members to question everything.

I would ask, JMA, whether a mid-life crisis actually happened.

To put the question differently, was there ever a time when the adult JS wasn't sleeping around? If I recall correctly, his earliest documented affairs were dated to about 1831, which would put him in his mid-twenties.

If that is right, then he was a libertine throughout his adult life. D&C 132 only appeared when he needed to justify a practice that he'd engaged in for at least a decade.

Brigham Young clearly taught that it was polygamy and that you could not be exalted in the highest degree of celestial glory unless you entered into polygamy.

both, you really can't separate them.

Clestial marriage is plural marriage.

http://www.yorgalily.org/~yorgasor/church/JournalOfDiscourses/Vol01/refJDvol1-11.html

Thanks for this link. It's a fascinating read (in a horrible sort of way).

Even if it could be said that it's talking about temple marriage, they still expected temple marriage to involve multiple wives. So it's still both.

The New and Everlasting Covenant isn’t about Plural Marriage, or marriage at all. The LDS Church uses marriage to distract Latter Day Saints from the Biblical definition given by Jesus, and His Apostles.

If we look at Jesus’ description of the New Covenant in Matthew 26:28 (see the corresponding LDS footnote), the New and Everlasting Covenant is about the forgiveness of sins. If we look at Hebrews 9:15, which also mentions the New Covenant by name (again see footnote), it tells us that the New and Everlasting Covenant is about the forgiveness of sins.

Under the topic heading for the New and Everlasting Covenant, neither one of these two verses are referenced in the LDS Bible’s Topical Guide. Jeremiah 31:31 is found there though, and it too tells us that the New and Everlasting Covenant is about the forgiveness of sins. It tells us that God was going to make a New Covenant, not according to the covenant He made when He led the Israelites out of Egypt. Through this New Covenant, God would forgive our sins, and remember them no more (verse 34). The New Covenant discussed in the New Testament is obviously the New and Everlasting Covenant referenced by Jeremiah, because that is the covenant that replaced the Law of Moses.

The book of Hebrews contains a passage that explains the New Covenant in stunning detail. The amazing part is that it is almost three chapters long. This New Testament writer quotes Jeremiah’s prophecy twice, and sandwiched in between those quotations, is a comprehensive explanation.

When it comes to the topic heading for the New and Everlasting Covenant, the LDS Topical Guide ignores quite a few of the most important Biblical verses. Also, the LDS Bible Dictionary ignores the New and Everlasting Covenant completely. If you are at all intrigued by these facts, check out NewAndEverlastingCovenant.com, where you can find out more about these omissions and the Biblical verses.

What Jesus taught about the New Covenant is irrelevant, surely, to what JS was doing with the New & Everlasting Covenant. Two different things.

"Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives"

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng

The Mormon Church still thinks that Sec. 132 includes plural wives. Who am I to argue.

According to the TSCC, I am married to two wives, and eternally at that. Let me explain. I divorced my first wife legally, but she never bothered to have it cancelled by the church. I can't do that, only the woman can. I remarried and am "sealed" to another woman now. According to doctrine even though my ex has remarried and so have I, we could end up married in "the next life." I'd have two wives in heaven! Some have said that if my ex or I don't want that, it'll be "fixed" somehow later.

It's all BS, folks.

You'd better hope you right. Or at the very least you don't make it to the Celestial Kindgom. Otherwise, you are going to spend all of eternity trying to deal with both of them at once! Good luck with that...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 11:07PM by bc.

It's a good example of '1984'-ism in TSCC: D&C 132 is very specific about plural marriage being the N&EC, and BY, being the prophet of the church, said you couldn't get to the eternal top shelf without it, yet apologists try to throw it down the memory hole.

So, a man with 10 wives is 10 times more exalted than a lowly monogamist? That would stand to reason, and I think I read that somewhere, but haven't been able to source that. (I've inquired about that on this board a few times already; so far, nada.)

...are crucial.

If you are talking about THE new and everlasting covenant referred to in D&C 132, it is clearly all about plural marriage.

However, THE new and everlasting covenant referred to in D&C 132 is not the only new and everlasting covenant. There are others. That's why in D&C 132 it is introduced as "A new and AN everlasting covenant" rather than being introduced as THE new and everlasting covenant.

Baptism is elsewhere referred to as "A new and everlasting covenant."

D&C 22

1 Behold, I say unto you that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing; and this is a new and an everlasting covenant, even that which was from the beginning.

2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works.

It's too late at night (even now without DST) to find the exact wording of the contemporary MORMON temple wedding ceremony.

The New and Everlasting Covenant is stated in the actual temple marriage ceremony of couples married in the temple today. They are sealed for eternity as "...man and wife under the New and Everlasting Covenant.

The term "New and Everlasting Covenant is cemented onto the sentence, and is NOT separate from the temple marriage. The sentence runs the two together.

Maybe another poster has the real wording to quote, tonight. I'll have it tomorrow.

Polygamy is NOT a thing of the past in MORMONism. It is alive and well!

Absolutely.

Mormon doctrine states that God is a polygamist and that Abraham and other polygamists will be Gods. Polygamy is the heavenly order, and if it is not practiced here that is a concession to earthly necessity rather than a change in God's will or Mormon doctrine. The official position of the church today is that polygamy is in abeyance until conditions change such that the church can practice it again.

"So...polygamy then. Why??"

"Because God, the omniscient creator of all things, the omnipotent master of the universe, yea even the omnipresent spirit of holiness and order dwelling in all things has decreed it to be so and has predicated the eternal progression of souls and their exaltation on compliance with this sacred principle."

"Wow! I guess that settles it then. Who can stand against God himself?"

"Uh...well...the U.S. federal government told God that he couldn't do it."

"Oh my God! He must have just wiped them all out for such impudence...just completely annihilated them!"

"No, as it turned out, God backed down. Turns out the federal government was too much for him to handle."

"Well, that certainly doesn't inspire much confidence in this God character, does it? What happened to all the people who didn't want to do it, but thought they had to do it because it was God's commandment?"

"Oh, well, we don't like to talk about them. It's all very sordid and they should have known better."

Just do a search "the new and everlasting covenant" and you will find resources explaining how polygamy was definitely the subject.

The temple sealing ceremony is right out of D&C 132, - all married into "spiritual wifery" -- whether you like it or not. It's all there. Read it.

My brain dead ( BRAIN DEAD!!!!!!) MORmON mother insists that anti MORmONS made up the lie that an angel of the Lord compelled and coerced (completely contrary to the paramount MORmON principle of Free Agency that MORmON Heavenly Father deferred to as He let 1/3 of His spiritual children follow Satan and fall into permanent condemnation) Joseph Smith into implementing polygamy.

If that is true then why is MORmON insider Truman Madsen perpetuating that same lie ?????


The video of Truman Madsen perpetuating that story / "LIE" about the origin of MORmON polygamy is available /for sale at LDS inc's official book (propaganda) store -Deseret Book.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw8EPzzniyw

The "seed" that MORmON Jesus SHOULD have been concerned about are the seeds of corruption and debauchery and immorality that were planted in MORmONISM when MORmON Jesus ordered Joseph Smith to implement MORmON "polygamy".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvFETmpiCX0

IF watching these videos does not set off your BS alarm, then you must be a real MORmON.

and still some people claim that Joey resisted polyg, was 'personally' against it...

(link banned by RfM)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2018 08:19PM by GNPE.