. . . consider that observation.

If you choose not to do so, I respect your decision and offer best wishes to you.

You were a real contribution here and a model of personal bravery and straight shooting.

Steve B.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2012 06:07PM by steve benson.

I appreciate his contributions and archived posts.

Helped a brothah out of this Mormon shit hole.

I thought he implied he was over it.

That is, if he is so inclined to explain.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2012 08:41PM by steve benson.

Our conversations have often focused on subjects other than Mormonism; those include Neanderthal DNA in modern humans, actual theoretical and hypothetical ancient migration patterns of Asians to the New World (including debunking the Solutrean nonsense that keeps being re-introduced), and attempts to build a consensus between mitochondrial and autosomal DNA research and archaeological finds and claims made at sites such as Meadowcroft, Buttermilk Ranch, and Cactus Hill (our resident archaeologist here informs me archaeology isn't a "science," but uses it in its discipline).

Simon remains a committed, working scientist and retains a scientists' curiosity. He also possesses one of the finest analytical minds I've ever encountered and yet allows for honest disagreement. I generally reject, for example, any "coastal migration" proposals that led to the C-14 numbers we find in South America; he's a believer in those hypotheses, however.

I have found his insights and knowledge invaluable in those areas, even though it's essentially a "hobby" for me at this point.

I suspect there were a number of factors in his decision, and now, no doubt, the trolls will periodically chime in here at some point with claims he's retaking the missionary lessons.

Incidentally, my own "Top Three" list of individuals who've repeatedly endured the most uncalled for abuse from the faithful for their apostate views consists of Simon, Will Bagley, and Steve Benson. However, if "maintaining public decorum" in the face of such attacks is a virtue--I'm not sure it is at this point in my "recovery," and I certainly believe in "returning fire" in most instances--Simon is the winner, hands down.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2012 09:03PM by steve benson.

Alas, the Wise Ol' Cabbie also left us a few weeks ago, so I'm without a consultant on those weighty philosophical issues...

I just chose to frame the subject in reasonably objective fashion, and I'll stick with my usual "road rage" excuse when I've encountered disagreeable sorts... And without offering too much information, I've taken some smears for stuff I've written elsewhere under my real name... Not a lot, but I do understand being shot at and the urge to make instant rhetorical roadkill...

I know, though, that Will won't mind my sharing this one: I teased him a few weeks ago about "needing to be careful of Danites," and he shot back, "I'm not afraid of Danites. I eat them for breakfast."

Well, maybe it's not having lived in the old neighborhood (Bagley actually did when he was young, honest) in Simon's case....

There's some e-mails for you...

Sometimes I wish I didn't need to dwell on the trauma I have from the mormon machine. Maybe Dr. Sutherland has come to terms with this and is now moving on without it?

As they say in spanish Dr. Sutherland, via con las estrellas mi amigo y muchas gracias por su ayuda. Notice, I didn't say Dios... ;)

Mormonism will canabalize itself.

His previous post and thread about leaving: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,591721,591721

Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Go to Topic: Previous•NextGo to: Forum List•Message List•New Topic•Search•Mark Read•Control Center•Log Out
Posted by: Simon in Oz ( )
Date: August 04, 2012 08:20PM
Going Walkabout new

I recently had a one month break from exmormonism while on holidays and I am struggling to reengage. Like many of you, exmormonism has been taking up too much time that could otherwise be spent pursuing other interests. It is probably time to disengage.

Hearing John Dehlin’s Sunstone address did it for me. John and I see eye to eye on essentially every problem with Mormonism. But John needs to be accepted in Mormon culture and so feels drawn to Sunstone. For me the thought of getting Sunstoned gives me the creeps, and I know several Aussie friends who feel exactly the same way.

The church is insignificant in Australia and it is getter more so every year. Many are leaving but I don’t sense there is much demand for something resembling Sunstone. Most Aussies seem to just move into the real world and leave it behind. I know Sunstone is a broad tent but being around people intellectualizing about Mormonism has almost no appeal to me now. I don't crave the company of Mormons enough and it is so obvious the whole thing is a fraud.

I am going to try out post exmormonism, take up a few more hobbies and work on my wine collection. I hope I don't need to come back but it is good to know that there are many good people here should I choose to.

Wishing you all the best.

Hooroo

Simon

One of the big reasons to leave mormonism is to get your life back, or to get the life you had taken from you.

Sounds like Simon has gotten to the point where living is what its all about. Have a wonderful time living. Thank you for all you've done to help others.

It is very helpful for those of us on the fence to have people like Simon around to help give us a nudge and find our way out of the cave (for those familiar with Plato).

That being said, I certainly can't begrudge the man for wanting to disengage from exmormonism. After all, he has been actively engaged for 14 years. The DNA debate isn't going away though so hopefully someone has his number or email.

Anyway, thanks to Steve B and other long-timers for sticking it out to help your fellows find the truth.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2012 09:49PM by steve benson.

It's obvious on rereading his post that he feels Mormonism is so obvious a fraud, due in part to his work, that he wishes to be rid of it. "Sunstoning" the religion doesn't make it any truer. Dehlin is being torn apart with a foot in each camp.

There's not much more someone from Australia can do since the church here is nothing, and getting less than that by the day. He wrote a book, spoke at some events, but it's a long way to go for him to get an audience. Mormonism here (Australia) isn't having a moment like in the US with Romney. It just doesn't mean anything to society at large.

I guess Dr Southerton has better things to worry about.

That's very true ozproof. I have already stopped paying tithing and I will stop attending fairly soon, but in many ways I will never be able to fully disengage from Mormonism. I'm a BIC, 6th generation member (on both sides). There is nothing I can do to change that, but I can change it for my posterity.

Why are you still here almost daily?

"Posted by: SLDrone
Date: August 07, 2012 10:08PM
one night also ask you Steve

"Why are you still here almost daily?"
_____


:)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2012 10:16PM by steve benson.

If Simon, Steve, SLDrone or anyone else wants to participate or NOT participate on this board or on anything else LDS-Mormon-culture-related then that's their call. Personally I come here from time to time because I feel a bit of tribal feelings in association with the culture of my youth + first decade of my life + the awareness that I'll always have lots of family within the "approved" (but surely and slowly becoming a minority) niche of the culture. At this point of time I'm long over "losing my testimony" or anything like that. And as one who travels a lot for work its nice to meetup from time to time with fellow exmos when I'm outside Utah. In fact this evening it was due to me browsing this board a couple nights back while I was at one of the "sacred gates" of the SLC airport that I got to meet for the first time ever Eric K. who started this exmormon.org website. Coiincidentally I discovered that he and I were headed on biz trips to the same town so tonight I met up with him and bought him dinner. IMO he's a great man who played a part in helping me save years of my life from being wasted by the LDS inc. masters.

BTW I say "sacred gates" in sarcastic honor of where so many of the wonderful LDS inc. apostles have headed out in the world to gather in the tithes for Jesus's bank accounts through their slick firesides and other holy apostolic duties in building up this sacred corporate kingdom of theirs.

Simon did mention something about needing to focus more on his wine bottles collection. IMO that sounds like a fair reason for him to abandon this ship .... as long as it's good wine ;)

Doesn't matter what your screen name is, I always recognize your writing style. :) Hope you gave Eric a big hug for me.

Early in my exit, I read something by Simon about his most spiritual moment in life was when Australia won the America's cup. That resonated strongly with me because my most spiritual moment was also related to sports. It was a lightbulb moment for me to realize that the warm fuzzy feeling might not mean what I thought it meant. Then I read his book. DNA and the Lamanite problem is what got me out. Thank you Simon Southerton!

I think it is great that he is moving on. I hope I can do the same someday as well. It makes sense that it would be easier for him to let go of it all being in Australia where the church is a lot smaller. He probably had a lot of non-Mormon friends even before leaving so he can just focus on that part of his life and his family and his career. For John Dehlin it is a different story living in Utah where everyone is Mormon. And he also has two daughters that want to go to church because that is where all their friends are. It is harder to leave behind when Mormonism permeates every aspect of the life and culture of where you live.

Reading Simon Southerton's book was a key element to my successful exit from mormonism. Also, his correspondence with Vaughn Featherstone was just as enlightening--on another level. Many thanks to this courageous scientist.

Best wishes with all you do esias

Leaving COJCOLDS leaves one with PTSD, and I imagine Simon was left with a pretty intense case of it! I like to think he has (relatively) recovered and healed. Coming back here can only serve to trigger flashbacks.

Simon's leaving reminds me of an analogy from Alan Watts: Religion is like the boat that takes you across a lake, from one shore to the other. Some people get out of that boat and continue their journey. Others remain in the boat, sailing from one shore to another, back and forth, which keeps them from continuing their journey.

RfM can be like that.

Simon has left us...

He must have been offended or wanted to not sin...