The sermon last Sunday was about sin, and how feeling guilt is a consequence of sin. However, since we will never be sin-free and perfect, we have to learn how not to feel guilty all the time by embracing God's grace and total forgiveness. (The pastor said it much better). Anyway, sitting a few rows in front of me is a beautiful, sweet natured, 16 year old "intellectually handicapped" girl and her mother. I was thinking how this girl was born into perfect grace and really would never sin because of her handicap. She hardly every speaks and stays close to her mother all the time. I don't know what her exact diagnosis is, but I know she is not aware enough to sin.

Anyway, do handicapped 8 year old children get baptized in mormonism, and do handicapped people go through the temple? Are accomodations made for people in wheelchairs, the blind, etc?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 01:46PM by presbyterian.

Yes they still do. My brother has down syndrome and was baptized when I was.

They gave him a 'mini ward mission' too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 01:48PM by fidget.

I think it depends on the level of understanding a person has. I could see someone getting baptized in my church if the pastors felt they understand what they were doing.

Everyone, I mean everyone, who dies without accepting Christ goes to Hay-ell.


That's probably the first thing that pissed me off about Calvinistic Protestantism.

I used to go to this church: http://www.tenth.org/ so my brand of Presby might differ.

I agree with you. My summary was very simplistic. As I said the pastor did a better job. However, if a person does not understand the difference between "right" and "wrong" I don't feel they can understand the concept of sin.

OMG! What did I start here? I'm gonna take a nap.

Thanks for the comments.

There was this middle aged single convert woman in my old ward who's older sister was profoundly mentally disabled. After the woman had taken her endowments out, she was able take her sister to the temple so that they could be sealed to their parents, the same as if the sister was a child.

Yes, alot could be talked about.
What definition of sin ... or whose? I think there are many levels of sin and definitions.

The concept of right and wrong is based almost solely on the societal group you are currently with.

Even killing people is OK if you do it in the name of Christ(?)

I don't think getting baptized really matters at all, so why not? If it provides some comfort for the family, so be it. Family descision, plain and simple



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 05:17PM by mindlight.

just as they were finishing a chapel on the Woodinville-Duvall road, a 'change order' from SLC came thru to add an ELEVATOR so w.chair people could access 'the stand'. this was in the late 1990's or early 2000's. the 'lift' was about 24"

I can't imagine that was only for 1 chapel, but U know that Silly Morg....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 05:18PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Many of the older buildings do not have adequate access for wheelchairs--or water fountain use--according to ADA.

As for the OP, why members with cognitive limitations need baptism is yet another enigma in TSCC. Unless the handicapped member wants it, there's absolutely no reason, doctrinal or otherwise, for it. It can even be frightening for some people.

"Accomodations" are made for the disabled in temple ceremonies (if that's where you meant; it was unclear). But some of those "accomodations" can be embarrassing for the disabled person involved, calling attention to them that they do not want.

We have an elevated area at our church with about 6 or 7 steps to get up to the "stage" at the front of our church. To be ADA compliant, we were supposed to put up in a lift so people could access that area. We never did, but the pastors come down the stairs to interact with anyone who can't make it up the steps. Our ADA compliant bathrooms are in a different building.

I'm not sure what the official policy or doctrine is on mentally challenged people, but I was under the impression from what people have said in the LDS church is that they don't even need baptism, in the sense of having to wipe away sins, because they are "innocent." I knew of one bishop who let his handicap son decide on his own if and when he wanted to be baptized. I've also heard in church and some prophets that they were "so righteous" in the pre-existance that they only came to earth to obtain a body.

Ya know, this is one area where my LDS experiences were not faulty. My son is autistic and I would take him to church. He was treated like gold, really. The bishop's counselor would sit in primary the times I took him to chruch and allow my boy to run his hands through his Abasalom-like curly hair. They said I could baptize him if I wished but I said that he really wouldn't "get it". No one every bugged me about it. There were some gravely ill and disabled children in that ward and they were all fussed over to no end. I think this sort of thing transcends creed.

There was a 32 year old girl in my ward that had the mentality of a 4 year old. She had cerebral palsy.

Her mother insisted she be baptized, endowed, and do temple sessions. This girl had no idea what was going on. She would call out to people she knew during the temple ceremonies. She couldn't speak well enough at the veil, so they let her mother do it for her. The whole thing was crazy.

So glad to hear that balaamsass

At my ward, I too saw great acceptance of disabled children. A very good thing indeed. I am very glad they didn't push the baptism, they just accepted. excellent
Of note, I have seen that in ALL of the religions I have gone to.

Indeed....I don't think the LDS church could completely escape from the collective unconscience. Have a good night.

I have an intellectually handicapped cousin. The bishop told her mother that she didn't have to have her daughter baptized but she could if she wanted to. My aunt decided to wait until my cousin was 10 and she was baptized with her younger sister. Now that my cousin is an adult, they make special callings for her and she LOVES to do her "jobs" at church.

My Mother has Cerebral Palsy, and is an active temple worker in the Seattle temple.

My son has Down syndrome and they would not let him be baptised so I think it depends on the bish.I do think the basic thought is that they do not have to be baptised because of lack of understanding. However, when my son was 12-13 he was feeling left out while his peers passed sacrament etc and he wanted to also. This became a big issue for us where he would go sit at the sacrament table with his peers and we would have to go get him and tell him he had to sit with us and he would become upset.

I approached the bish about baptism and he wanted some time to think about it. Meanwhile I talked to a different bish who said he would not baptise because then my son would be held responsible for things he couldn't understand. When my bish got back to me he said he talked with his ex bish father and they ended up saying the same thing as above. He then came up with a "calling" for my son to help him feel included. However, this job was something he did by himself and really, the bish missed the whole point.

My brother went to bat for son and bish then came and said son could be baptisd. I was on my way out about then and this issue quickened the process for me. Really? What god would hold people responsible for things they can not understand? WEll, evidently the mormon god. I never went back after that...

Up until this point, my son was fully included in school, the neighborhood and community. It was in church he was first excluded due to his disabilty. Hmmm.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2012 10:21PM by ladybug.

My daughter is intellectually handicapped. She has never been inside a Mormon church except for her grandparents funerals. We own a home for her in the city where she has lived with staff for 15 years. She loves it there. But I know of some TBM's who think we should be keeping her at our home and caring for us ourselves. We're both in our mid 60's. Is that our penance for having a child with a disability? How fucked up is that?

Ron Burr

We had a young man with Downs Syndrome in a ward I once belonged to.


He functioned on about a six year old's level, though he was the sweetest young man you ever met.


His mother took him to church every Sunday, and he was well treated by all.


But he was never baptised.


His Mom wanted him baptised, but she figured that the reason that they didn't do it is because then they would have had to make a decision about ordinating him to the priesthood. She figured that they felt it was easier to just not baptize him, then it would be to decide later not to ordain him.


I'm not sure if she was right or wrong, just relaying what she told me.


I think that if his dad had been a member and had wanted to baptize him, that they would have done it. But with his dad a non-member, that pressure didn't exist.


And his mom's opinion -- well, she was just a MOTHER, you know.


A woman.


Why should they have ever considered the feelings of a mere woman?