Does anyone happen to have a link to the article published in either the Salt Lake Tribune of the Deseret News within the last few months wherein the Church denied all of its initial teachings on blacks being less valiant in the pre-existence, seed of Cain intended to be servants, etc.? Thanks!

mormonnewsroom.org had a bit of that, I think, in the commonly asked questions section.

The Etch-a-Sketch ate it...

I'd start by Googling Elder Mark E. Peterson; I think he was responsible for much of it (as was Delbert Stapley). Those are just of the top of my head...

Stapley wrote this letter to George Romney in 1964, unofficially, telling him to back off on support for civil rights for African-Americans.

Romney had just given a speech in favor of full civil rights for all citizens. After the letter, Romney continued to support civil rights.

http://www.boston.com/news/daily/24/delbert_stapley.pdf

How interesting is it that Mitten's own party is now actively advocating and acting to prevent minorities from voting...

Wow, that letter made me sick!

Sickening, but valuable. I know I was educated and indoctrinated in many ways that have been since modified. These records must be part of discussion.

I think it is good there is this change, but witness that the change is not leadership, but more compliance or submission.

The issue is Mormon doctrine and scripture that proclaims absolute authority to speak with finality for all. A major reason why I chose not to transition to a cultural/social Mormon. True evil pervades throughout Mormon teachings and history, this is a clear example.

This is one of the reasons I am proud I rejected Mormonism inspite of what I would suffer emotionally and socially. I now have my own beliefs/ knowledge on humanity. Delbert Stapley can be a bigot and subsequent prophets can deny or plead ignorance, but this is the history I was born into and tasted and smelled enough to spit out and reject. I do not have to ignore or apologize, I engage and reject.

I wish we could find something that would help universally, but if this subject doesn't do it what possibly could?

John_Lyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stapley wrote this letter to George Romney in
> 1964, unofficially, telling him to back off on
> support for civil rights for African-Americans.
>
> Romney had just given a speech in favor of full
> civil rights for all citizens. After the letter,
> Romney continued to support civil rights.
>
> http://www.boston.com/news/daily/24/delbert_staple
> y.pdf
>
> How interesting is it that Mitten's own party is
> now actively advocating and acting to prevent
> minorities from voting...

I would love to see this letter in a tweet on twitter. With #Momon perhaps including @HuffintonPost so it has volume of eyes. That letter needs to be seen in the light of day. I think it reflects well on George Romney, but is so honest from the Apostle--he was a bigot and called God and Joseph Smith bigots too. I understand three presidents suffered because they did not understand the curse of Cain.

I cannot do this, but see some exmo twitter posts on there. Perhaps someone here. the Morg is using twitter to do missionary work, PR, and give history lessons. If curious best way to find them is #LDS or #Mormon

I just want to say,

"I'm not sure we teach that..."

LOL

Oops, this was supposed to be at the end of the thread... Sorry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2012 01:15PM by John_Lyle.

During WWII, German submariners wrote the codes for the naval Enigma machines in water soluble ink.

That way, if there was a problem, they could just throw them in the bilge and they would "go away"...

I'll bet the church wishes they could do the same...

From the mormonnewsroom.org website:

"At some point the Church stopped ordaining male members of African descent, although there were a few exceptions. It is not known precisely why, how or when this restriction began in the Church, but it has ended. Church leaders sought divine guidance regarding the issue and more than three decades ago extended the priesthood to all worthy male members. The Church immediately began ordaining members to priesthood offices wherever they attended throughout the world."

I'm wondering how exactly they justify saying, "It is not known precisely why, how or when this restriction began in the Church," when they know darn well that it was their racist prophets, especially Brigham Young, who started it. Maybe that's not "precise" enough for them.

Thanks for the suggestions. No luck yet. I'll let you know if I find it.

This article contains a denial of the "fence-sitter in the pre-existence" teachings:

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=21364059&itype=storyID

"It is not known precisely why, how or when this restriction began in the Church"

This is total BS!! They flippin' know.. it's right there in their own history books.

Liar,liar, pants on fire. Shame on you, Mr. Mormon "Prophet".

"It is not known precisely why, how or when this restriction began in the Church"


Hmmmmmm....... that's odd, because in the First Pres. Statement below it appears they knew exactly why the ban was in place.


"The First Presidency Statement on the Negro Question

August 17, 1949

The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time. The prophets of the Lord have made several statements as to the operation of the principle. President Brigham Young said: "Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their fathers rejecting the power of the holy priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to."

President Wilford Woodruff made the following statement: "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have."

The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes."


Sorry but they can't memory hole this one.

December 15, 1969

To General Authorities, Regional Representatives of the Twelve, Stake Presidents, Mission Presidents, and Bishops.

Dear Brethren:

In view of confusion that has arisen, it was decided at a meeting of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve to restate the position of the Church with regard to the Negro both in society and in the Church.

First, may we say that we know something of the sufferings of those who are discriminated against in a denial of their civil rights and Constitutional privileges. Our early history as a church is a tragic story of persecution and oppression. Our people repeatedly were denied the protection of the law. They were driven and plundered, robbed and murdered by mobs, who in many instances were aided and abetted by those sworn to uphold the law. We as a people have experienced the bitter fruits of civil discrimination and mob violence.

We believe that the Constitution of the United States was divinely inspired, that it was produced by "wise men" whom God raised up for this "very purpose," and that the principles embodied in the Constitution are so fundamental and important that, if possible, they should be extended "for the rights and protection" of all mankind.

In revelations received by the first prophet of the Church in this dispensation, Joseph Smith (1805-1844), the Lord made it clear that it is "not right that any man should be in bondage one to another." These words were spoken prior to the Civil War. From these and other revelations have sprung the Church's deep and historic concern with man's free agency and our commitment to the sacred principles of the Constitution.

It follows, therefore, that we believe the Negro, as well as those of other races, should have his full Constitutional privileges as a member of society, and we hope that members of the Church everywhere will do their part as citizens to see that these rights are held inviolate. Each citizen must have equal opportunities and protection under the law with reference to civil rights.

However, matters of faith, conscience, and theology are not within the purview of the civil law. The first amendment to the Constitution specifically provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

The position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affecting those of the Negro race who choose to join the Church falls wholly within the category of religion. It has no bearing upon matters of civil rights. In no case or degree does it deny to the Negro his full privileges as a citizen of the nation.

This position has no relevancy whatever to those who do not wish to join the Church. Those individuals, we suppose, do not believe in the divine origin and nature of the church, nor that we have the priesthood of God. Therefore, if they feel we have no priesthood, they should have no concern with any aspect of our theology on priesthood so long as that theology does not deny any man his Constitutional privileges.

A word of explanation concerning the position of the Church.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints owes its origin, its existence, and its hope for the future to the principle of continuous revelation. "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God."

From the beginning of this dispensation, Joseph Smith and all succeeding presidents of the Church have taught that Negroes, while spirit children of a common Father, and the progeny of our earthly parents Adam and Eve, were not yet to receive the priesthood, for reasons which we believe are known to God, but which He has not made fully known to man.

Our living prophet, President David O. McKay, has said, "The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God....

"Revelation assures us that this plan antedates man's mortal existence, extending back to man's pre-existent state."

President McKay has also said, "Sometime in God's eternal plan, the Negro will be given the right to hold the priesthood."

Until God reveals His will in this matter, to him whom we sustain as a prophet, we are bound by that same will. Priesthood, when it is conferred on any man comes as a blessing from God, not of men.

We feel nothing but love, compassion, and the deepest appreciation for the rich talents, endowments, and the earnest strivings of our Negro brothers and sisters. We are eager to share with men of all races the blessings of the Gospel. We have no racially-segregated congregations.

Were we the leaders of an enterprise created by ourselves and operated only according to our own earthly wisdom, it would be a simple thing to act according to popular will. But we believe that this work is directed by God and that the conferring of the priesthood must await His revelation. To do otherwise would be to deny the very premise on which the Church is established.

We recognize that those who do not accept the principle of modern revelation may oppose our point of view. We repeat that such would not wish for membership in the Church, and therefore the question of priesthood should hold no interest for them. Without prejudice they should grant us the privilege afforded under the Constitution to exercise our chosen form of religion just as we must grant all others a similar privilege. They must recognize that the question of bestowing or withholding priesthood in the Church is a matter of religion and not a matter of Constitutional right.

We extend the hand of friendship to men everywhere and the hand of fellowship to all who wish to join the Church and partake of the many rewarding opportunities to be found therein.

We join with those throughout the world who pray that all of the blessings of the gospel of Jesus Christ may in due time of the Lord become available to men of faith everywhere. Until that time comes we must trust in God, in His wisdom and in His tender mercy.

Meanwhile we must strive harder to emulate His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, whose new commandment it was that we should love one another. In developing that love and concern for one another, while awaiting revelations yet to come, let us hope that with respect to these religious differences, we may gain reinforcement for understanding and appreciation for such differences. They challenge our common similarities, as children of one Father, to enlarge the out-reachings of our divine souls.

Faithfully your brethren,
The First Presidency
By Hugh B. Brown
N. Eldon Tanner

The evolution of the church is interesting isn't it? All of a suddent, the church is accepting of people of all skin colors and never felt otherwise. Joseph Smith's own words would say otherwise:

“I do not believe that the people of the North have any more right to say that the South shall not hold slaves, than the South have to say the North shall.... the first mention we have of slavery is found in the Holy Bible.... And so far from that prediction being averse to the mind of God, it [slavery] remains as a lasting monument of the decree of Jehovah, to the shame and confusion of all who have cried out against the South, in consequence of their holding the sons of Ham in servitude.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 2, p. 438

“ ‘Are the Mormons abolitionists?’ No, unless delivering the people from priestcraft, and the priests from the power of Satan, should be considered abolition. But we do not believe in setting the negroes free.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v.3, p. 29

“We feel it to be our duty to define our position in relation to the subject of slavery. There are several men in the valley of the Salt Lake from the Southern States, who have their slaves with them.”

- Apostle Orson Hyde, Millennial Star, 1851, p. 63

I've read those chapters from the History of the Church myself. Those comments are not taken out of context or misapplied. Joseph Smith actually used the Bible to condone the slavery that existed at the time. His letter to Hyram Smith indicated that he wanted the Church to be expressly neutral with regard to the issue of slavery in Missouri, and at the same time, he spoke in a manner condoning it to appease the slave owners and slave owning supporters of Missouri.

The Church can say it has evolved (it clearly has). But it can't deny how it stood in the beginning with regard to the issue.

It sure is.

This 1969 piece is especially interesting because it supports legally treating blacks equal but then still directly states that God has told the church to discriminate against them.

>>>Our living prophet, President David O. McKay, has said, "The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God....

"Revelation assures us that this plan antedates man's mortal existence, extending back to man's pre-existent state."<<<

is quite damning.

Like a kid on rollerskates inside saying I don't know how the vase fell and broke.
What their denials always fail to address are the verses of Mormon scripture that decades of "unofficial" rationale were based on.
They talk like past Mormon racism was either imported wholesale from contemporary culture or that it was just capriciously made up.
But they play dumb about racist verses in their scriptures.
Lamanites cursed and marked with a skin of blackness.
Africa being resettled after the flood by one "Egyptus", who acquired the curse of Cain through the wife of Ham.
The paradigm that blacks were introduced after whites is a biological anachronism.
These versus are what prompted Mormon theologians, along with the concept of premortal stratification, to conclude that blacks were singled out.
Mormons are denying, abeit problematically, overt racism.
But they're still racist.
They believe God and Jesus are white guys who one poster here likened to Abba doubles.
Blacks are supposed to believe in a white God and white prophets who have a blatant northern European colonialist ethnocentricity...(Utahr).
The church is condescending and patronizing of blacks by sayi g there's absolutely no racism in pure mormon doctrine.

If not here on Earth, then in the celestial kingdom. They're servants, you know.