I met a lovely yw yesterday. She's a college student of 20 with Native American ancestry from a large town in southern Utah. The subject of religion came up. She stated adamantly that she will never go back to the church; I asked her if she'd mind sharing why.

She said she has a very small tattoo of a flower on her leg. She also has a tiny stud through her nose, emblem of her Pacific Northwest Indian tribe. She does not wear the eponymous nose ring but, instead, sports a small, shiny stud.

The last time she went to church, she wore a short skirt with sandals or flip flops. The bishop called her in to his office before church ended. He told her that the ward wanted to pay for her to have her tattoo removed by laser treatments. She said she stood there stunned and didn't know what to say to him. She did ask why the ward would want to do such a thing. He said that "certain families" felt the tattoo should be removed.

I thought, wow, what a weasel-like approach. Takes him out of the equation altogether to make it look like others had approached him on the subject (and perhaps they had; shame on all parties involved). She said, as if in answer to my thought, she didn't know if what he said was true or not with respect to these "families," but in her gut she felt that he was demanding it of her as bishop.

Which was pretty much proven upon his next words to her. He asked her, right then and there, to remove her nose stud. In his presence, as some freakish show of obedience. She told him why she wore it, but he was resolute, implacable. She said she then turned her back, walked out of his office and never looked back. Her mother was furious at the bishop as well. She and her family are now thinking of going to the local Catholic church.

I thought about this a lot yesterday. Isn't it amazing what bishops like him think are appropriate uses of his mantle as bishop? Furthermore, what does this say about appropriate uses of ward funds or donations by families? How did that accomplish the three-fold mission of the church in any way? It proved nothing but that he was a control freak and that more humanitarian uses for those funds weren't as important as her on-the-spot obedience to his authority. The whole story reeks of cultish control. I'm glad the girl had the guts to stand up to the bully.

Btw, sorry if the topic was misleading, but I thought it was appropriate since, in her words, he was asking her to remove something she considered a beautiful and artistic expression of self on her own body.

That is so crazy! My son married a girl with tattoos; he was a newly returned missionary. All I told him (and I was TBM at the time) was that he needed to love her, everything about her, tattoos, ear gauges, and all. I told him that he'd better adore her and not expect her to change, and not to allow others to tell her to change either. The church is so darn concerned about outward appearance that they can't see for a second the soul within.

You should write headlines for the news ;)

I have often been struck with how fixated some bishops are with physical appearance and dress. I've never seen anything quite that bad, but I sat in ward council / bishopric meetings with 2 different bishops who seemed to think one of the most important things for your spirituality is what you wore to church.

I have written for newspapers before. And I have a bit of a dirty mind as well. LOL sorry.

Yeah maybe I should say tabloids - I thought it was great!

ducky333 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have written for newspapers before. And I have
> a bit of a dirty mind as well. LOL sorry.

I still write for newspapers. And do I ever {ahem!} over write a headline? Too bloody right I do! ;o))

However, I think your choice of words made a very good point.

Thank you. Are you from GB?

Shoot--your headline got me to read the WHOLE DANG POST. I'm upset about the way the girl was treated and at the presumptuousness of the bishop, but I'm more disappointed that the title was misleading. :)

You must have a dirty mind. I knew exactly what she meant. ;o)

That is too bad that he is so clueless and insensitive but hey, it is making them think about things, which is never bad.

I had a bishop instruct me once to approach a member who was visiting from another area, a woman in her mid-30s, who wore summer dresses, somewhat lower-cut and sleeveless. She was very well endowed, so to speak, with a passel of kids hanging off her, literally. The bishop didn't know her and I certainly didn't. He wanted me to tell her as a "concerned sister" that "sisters of the gospel don't walk around showing that much flesh". Hahahahahahahahaha. Even as a compliant new member I knew enough to realize that there are some boundaries in place, sometimes, somewhere, for a reason.

I didn't say anything to the woman. She only attended a couple of meetings and we never saw her again.

What kind of church thinks its members and leaders have a right to comment on how others dress, and expect them to change? Oh wait. The Mormon Church. Maybe that was all she could afford to wear. Maybe there wasn't "so much flesh" on view before she had so many kids. Maybe she liked that type of clothing or the way she looked in it.

She wasn't the only woman who made the bishop's face turn red. One of the investigators at one time was in her early 20s, only just leaving a life of prostitution, and she still wore revealing clothing (i.e., transparent) without a bra. While she didn't show as much naked flesh as Woman 1, she certainly had a strong effect on the missionaries, who wouldn't meet with her unless I could be there too as a chaperone. I did feel sorry for the 21 yr old guys who had to conduct a "discussion" with a very attractive same-age female who was so obviously sans the requisite underclothing. Still, I never said anything to her about her choices. She already felt judged enough, as she stated on more than one occasion. As with so many, she did get baptized, but only attended one meeting afterwards and then was never seen again. (She freely admitted that she was still having sex with her bf but yet the bishop/SP and missionaries still went ahead with the baptism. So who's the hypocrite in the crowd? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm???)

The bishop and mercenaries probably knew that the girl in story number two was just having "spiritual" sex with the bf.... The kind that JS was taking part in..... So it's all cool.

It's unbelievable how some "leaders" treat people--especially women--based on their clothing or tiny unique features of their appearance. What happened to "the Lord looketh on the heart?"

In the ward I was about eight years ago, there was a very faithful woman who had started attending our ward after she turned 31 and "aged out" of the local singles ward. She and I got to be friendly, but most of the other TBMs would barely speak to her. You see, she had small tattoo on her collar bone that had deep significance to her, which she explained to all the nosy hags who made remarks about it. She was barred from holding a calling and the bishop told her he didn't think she deserved a temple recommend. After about a year of this treatment, she went inactive. I tried to keep in touch but she wasn't interested...can't say I blame her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2012 07:49PM by stbleaving.

In my experience, offering to deflower girls is a good way to get pepper sprayed. I think she should have pepper sprayed that bishop.

I think the bishop deserved a 'bear spray'...

('bear spray' is pepper spray designed to stop grizzly bears...)

Your post should have read "Bishop offers to pay to deflower a young woman"

I thought about it--Bishop offers to deflower young woman--but didn't want to go that far. Might call even more attention from lurkers looking to cause trouble; I don't know if they look at sublines or everything posted, so I went a bit more removed.

Smart thinking. We don't want to get too carried away.

Interesting post. How rude for the Bishop even saying that to her.

The post says the bishop offered ward money to pay for the removal of the tattoo. I don't know how much that would've cost but the ward of my husband's ex wife (she a devout TBM) paid for half of her part of a custody evaluation (overall cost $44k - the ward paid $11k). My husband's lawyer who is a TBM was furious that his tithing money might possibly be paying for her to get custody of their child she was abusing.

Having a lay clergy who follow their own opinions and treat them as gospel does as much damage to their membership as all the good info online. Well, maybe not as much damage, but certainly more than if they haid trained, professional clergy.

I agree with the problem of lay clergy. What's worse is that members cannot simply go to a ward with a bishop they like. And members who've never had a problem with their bishops can't imagine some of them being really jerks or abusing their power.

yep, it's just insane. It's so hit-or-miss, and the rules are made up, contorted, or ignored accordingly. I'd suggest that LDS, Inc. get a clue, but that would require more PAID positions.

If they had paid clergy (a 'bishop' in the Catholic Church has, at least, a master's in divinity) they wouldn't have as much money to pay the rent-a-cops at the Jesus Mall to eject people who don't meet the dress code...

Although it might add consistency, it would also increase culpability. They are interested in either consistency or culpability.

What a tragedy for such a beautiful young woman to throw away her salvation over something as minor as a nose stud!

Bet he's glad she didn't have the tattoo removed at the church's expense...

It was just that much more he could give to the Jesus Mall...

I'm a tattoo's are cool until they get outta control kinda guy, but I must say that nose studs/rings turn me off; I've seen too many beautiful girls (and some guys), that don't need piercings (or even make-up) stick a diamond in their nose or cheek. I'll bet the girl is a very attractive young lady, and why ruin it with what to me often looks like a zit....?

Oh, and stick it to the bish'.....

Not me, i love nose piercings. I have no idea why but all it takes is one teeny little stud in a pretty girls nose and all of a sudden i get all weak kneed

Btw...don't give us this garbage about being sorry for misleading us on the topic of your post. You were rationalizing...you know...lying for the Lard...just like all good mor(m)ons are taught to do...must be engrained in your character....now, all you need to figure out which Lard you worship.

peace out...sal

Of course I'm not sorry. I thought it was funny. Mouthiness and verbosity are both deeply ingrained in me. Learned them at my mama's knee.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 05:57AM by ducky333.

The bishop deserves hot pepper on his pe....

Personal happiness/contentedness is inversely correlated with the desire to exercise control over others.

"But Bishop, isn't the bigger problem that these people are staring at my legs? Perverts."

She should take the money and run. Keep the tattoo, keep the money. Don't ever go back.

(sulus) with their white shirts and ties, but not allow a woman of Native American ancestry to wear a small token of her traditional jewelry, huh? Huh?! HUH???!!!

http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_men/club/2011-12/news/113011_byus_matheson_finds_maturity_during_fiji_mission