The ex-bf and current missionary called me for a few minutes on Christmas. It was wonderful to hear his voice – even if only for a little bit.

I asked if he had told his parents yet.
He said no. He has a couple people more to talk to, and they'd be one of the last to find out.
(For all those who would know, how many people do you need to meet with/what's the process you go through if you want out from your mission? I thought it was like a once you bring it up, it's a done deal?)

It’s hard to pass judgment when you aren’t aware of the dynamics of our relationship. But we do love each other very much and I’ve expressed myself pertaining to his religion many times. He’s always welcomed it with open arms. I’ve told him I didn’t want to be with anyone who was Mormon – he responded by saying he was planning on coming home early from his mish. I told him my concerns about how if I questioned his religion or faith, he’d push me away.
He was very clear in saying something like “silly girl, I love you and would never push you away.” He’s questioning himself (That’s why he’s coming home I think – read my previous posts if you aren’t aware of my situation)
I just wrote him a letter telling him I don’t understand why he’s even waiting. I told him he was just buying time and needed to man up. Then I told him I was being selfish. I know it's a hard thing to do after having 19 years of this stuff pressed into you. So then I told him I was very proud of him.

“So I just had a thought while watching The Nanny. Remember how you told me to feel free to ask you and press you about stuff pertaining to your religion? You won’t get upset, but see it as a good thing? But then I said no. I told you that I wasn’t the one that needed to have my questions answered – you were.
You seemed intent on having me ask you questions. Is it because you’re going to attempt to fight it? I think I’d much rather tell you stuff.
Like stuff I don’t want you to try and refute, just things that are meant to be pondered.
Like when you told me you believed the past and present leaders of the church were all good people. I say no way. Lots of bad people there – but then again it’s like that with any organized religion.
If you found one fundamental flaw in the history of your religion, would your doubts increase? Mine would. By flaw I mean one smoking gun, obvious lie.
If you did not agree with one major stand/view in your religion would your doubts increase?
Basically your religion is strict and likes to control its members. There is no room for half beliefs. And you can’t argue with me on that. It’s true. Any religion that asks if you practice ‘self abuse’ or asks about your sex life when you’re married – come on. Limitations. Missionary position is the way you’re supposed to have sex, no oral sex, no dirty talk. That’s personal stuff and is no ones business but your own.
When you’re on your mission you can’t read the news or read books. God forbid you learn something.
Some apostle was quoted saying “Please, never say: ‘who does it hurt? Why not a little freedom?”
Which to me… that’s basically my view on almost everything. Religion, politics…

“Touch not their unclean things. Too many Latter-day Saints today somehow believe they can stand with one hand touching the walls of the temple while the other hand fondles the unclean things of the world. We can’t do that. As Alma said, “Touch not their unclean things” (Alma 5:57). I plead with you, put both hands on the temple. Put your arms around the temple, and hang on for dear life to your family dream. If you don’t, the tigers will come at night and tear your dreams apart."

*Doodle I drew of a cute tiger with an arrow saying ME! pointing to it*

I’m glad you have such a good sense of humor.
I just thought to myself… “I hope he doesn’t think I’m attacking him personally….. just everything he believes in (or used to believe in)”
And then I thought… well that was dumb of me. I’m sorry.
It’s like seeing someone you love so much doing something that’s like… they can do better. Like when Shannon was with Joe. I saw she could do so much better than him. He was emotionally abusive and had to know everything about her life outside of Joe. He was controlling and she didn’t even realize it. If anyone brought it up she would probably not believe it and completely write it off. They were together for six years. HOW could she be wrong about it all this time? The only way she could gain perspective is when she was forced to following his adultery. She stopped making up excuses for him because she realized the only person she was fooling was herself. Trying to give herself a false sense of security. When she took off her blinders she saw and everything fell into place. It wasn’t easy, but within a couple of weeks it was done. She knew, she accepted it, and moved on. Unfortunately she ended up with cancer because he gave her an STD.
How is THAT for one hell of a metaphor?

So I’ve pretty much taken your ‘ask me questions’ as ‘I’m just going to tell him stuff.’
I found it annoying when I brought stuff up to you and you said I “looked too deeply into it.”
Uh… okay? Because I don’t go about blindly believing in everything without bothering to check for myself?
Like I told you in another letter of mine – it’s ignorant to dedicate your life to something if you’re not sure what it’s all about. Like you NEED to look deeply into it.
Those that have been raised with it though, are different cases. But by a certain age, you can think and study for yourself. Which brings me to when you told me to not trust everything I read on the internet pertaining to Mormonism. And I don’t. I know how to find and use credible sources.
I found it hilariously ironic that you said that to me though.

So I just reread this letter. If I were you and I got this letter and I still have beliefs in the church greater than 50% I’d think I was a total bitch. But I’m in it to win it. If we’re going to try and make it work when you get back I need to say this stuff. And believe me… I’ve been holding back.
I’m not looking to fight or argue with you on this. If you’re going to be out to prove to me that your religion is legitimate, the church is true and good, etc., then you’re wasting your time.
And it’s not because I’m close minded. The only person you’d be further convincing is yourself. The fact that I’m not willing to budge on these issues I’m sure concerns you. But it should show you were I’m at. Compromising with you to make this fit into our relationship would be a personal belief compromise on my part.”

So, that’s my next letter to him. I know it’s kind of harsh. But for me I’ve given up a lot for this relationship. It’s been emotionally draining for me. But it’s been worth it. I wouldn’t go back and undo it if I could. Even if he writes me and says he’s staying, I won’t regret any of it. I need to know where he’s at, and if I’m going to be waiting for him to come home to get closure on the matter (a month or two I think he said – hopefully my last letter will make him realize I’m not fucking around and perhaps he’ll come home sooner)

I know that people on this board will tell me not to wait. And I agreed with them. When I thought he’d be gone for two years.
But this is not only my boyfriend (now ex… it feels weird calling him that) but he was my best friend for almost a year. I need to help him and be there for him. I told him I’d be supportive of him, but right now I’m administering a lot of tough love.
I’m not expecting a romantic relationship and I told him not to expect one either. For now. Even when he gets back I told him he needed to be by himself.

So, why am I even posting this here if I’ve already made up my mind on what I’m doing?
I suppose as an outlet. I can talk to my friends about it – but they really don’t understand Mormonism or that culture. I don’t have a first hand account myself (sometimes I feel as though I shouldn’t be posting on this board. I’m not really recovering from anything) but I’ve been submerged in it ever since the ex was prepping for leave on his mission.

If he's the person I think he is, he won't get angry or upset by this letter. He won't refute. If he doesn't run away after this... he's a keeper. I hope. As an incredibly filled-with-doubt missionary I'd hope he could find solace in knowing that I'll be there for him to provide unconditional love and support so he knows he's not alone on his road to recovery.

So thanks for reading. Any opinions, lewd comments, random remarks, or questions are welcome.

Until he gets on that plane he's doing nothing but leading you on.

He may have even written the letter really wanting to come home, but I remember your post on it and he was certainly not at a decisive stage. Unhappy? Yes. Not what he expected? Yes. Questioning his fundamental beliefs? Well...

He's being unfair to you, and unfair to himself by keeping up this pretense that he can have both you and the church by keeping you emotionally unavailable with all his vague promises of hope.

He already sent you a strong enough message letting you know where you stand when he left on his mission. He can talk about coming home all he wants but until he actually does the same initial message still stands. Religion does now and will always come first for this TBM missionary. Never expect that to change until his actions can prove it.

Believe it when you see it. Until then, it's only so much hot air.

You are *way* too emotionally invested in whether he comes home or not. Let him figure it out. In the meantime, live your life. Work, study, read, pursue hobbies. You can't have an authentic, healthy relationship with someone unless you are a whole person. And whole people don't have time for so much drama. Disengage!

Someone gave me this advice once and it has been priceless, "Pay attention to ONLY what he DOES, not to what he SAYS" - I believe that will tell you all you need to know. It has me.

Yeah, this is hard. It's easy for us, who know the lies of mormonism, to expect people to quickly come to our level once they start questioning their beliefs. But it's still hard. The process is a long journey, and coming home from a mission is never an easy thing. The internal torment, the pressure to conform, the shame, internal doubting of ones ability to make correct decisions, make everything more complicated than you will be able to understand.

Have patience. And then show more patience and understanding. And then be a support. And wait some more.

It will work out, hopefully. I doubt any missionary who would articulate that he was willing to leave his mission, would stay TBM. That is an enormous step in the right direction.

Goodluck, you cant rush this. You want it to happen faster, I'd love to hear it happens fast, but it might not work that way.

Best wishes to you.

As a friend who wants to support him, you should try to support him out of the cult. I think as long as you have self awareness that he could stay in the church you will be fine. IF he stays it will feel like he is rejecting you.

I think if you REALLY accept that then you can safely continue what you are currently doing. I support you in your support.

Seriously, what so many of us wouldn’t give to go back and choose someone who could think and stand up for themselves like you. We got married to the church instead of what was supposed to be a spouse that loved you unconditionally.

Years later after life, money and kids have gone under the bridge we find out the stark naked truth. You need to avoid this kind of heart ache and emotional devastation at all costs.

Like others have said it takes time to deprogram.

IF (to be fair that is a big fat IF) he comes home where will he go to be safe? Will he be stuck with family? Will he live with you? Does he have non-mormons he could live with temporarily as he works with you to study for himself (with you by his side) about the real history and activities of the church that he was not taught in Sunday school?
Like others have stated the pressure and shame is real. He will be interrogated by all the "yourwrongimonies" will come at him from all sides. So having a “safe” place would be paramount in my opinion.

If I were you I would give him faith disrupting facts that come straight out of the scriptures he carries around as a missionary. I would tell him that you could not begin to love a man that thought for one second that D&C 132 came from God and that more likely it came from a child having a tantrum.
Tell him that Emma’s Free Agency is destroyed which thing she supposedly won in the war in heaven and that not even God can take that away. Read it for yourself. He can read it himself as he has it in his hand all day long. That’s just a start. Tell him that you will not stand for women being treated in such a manner nor would you have a husband who would remotely believe such a horrible thing. That ought to wake him up since he seems to hold you in high esteem.

The church can be deconstructed with what he carries every single day and is not even remotely “anti-mormon”. Others here can give you great and simple examples of serious problems such as God cursing the unrighteous with dark skin and ugliness and then white again when they turn righteous and then dark again and many other problems such as the massive amount of plagiarism that he can check for himself.

Go here and print the comparisons and send it to him, he can verify it all by himself http://kmabom.wordpress.com/kjv-in-the-book-of-mormon-case-closed/

All this is staring him right in the face with his own scriptures, it is just that he has been taught to look at them in a manner that overlooks the obvious.

So my whole point is he unknowingly carries the destruction of the fraud he so cherishes. Use it. IMO it is your only hope.

Whether you take my advice or not I wish you luck Ms.Rockfish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2010 02:46AM by AmIDarkNow?.

You're in deep sister.

You'll be blamed as the reasoning he came home.

Also, you're trying to change who he is.


Idk...

I've written him and told him that I will stick up for him no matter what, and I expect that in return.
I told him that I know he will be looked down upon and I'll be there for him, I'll be one of the only people that can say that I am unconditionally proud of him.
I told him that the only thing that I need from him after all of this is for him to stand up for me.

I explicitly told him I am not trying to change who he is. If I honestly thought that this is what he believes and holds true to his heart, I wouldn't be so fervent about him coming home. I wouldn't bring up any of this stuff in my letters. I'd be as supportive as I could manage, be a good friend. (Or try to be. It's hard to do that after having a romantic relationship with someone)
But he has made it clear. If he is questioning enough to want and try to come home, I think it could be worth it to stick it out.

I wrote him and told him that if he truly believes and wants the church and his religion and to be serving his mission, I could stand by him.
If he wants me, I can stand by him.
But he can't have both.
And I believed he said something along the lines of...
"I've cleared a spot for you, come stand by me."

So, paitience is a virtue. And good things come to those who wait... And all those other phrases that hold true to my situation.
I've never been a patient person.
Perhaps a self induced coma is the next step?

Ms. Rockfish. You need to be prepared for several different outcomes and you need to come to peace with them BEFORE you invest too much.

You Ms. Rockfish will need to go to war. This is a war of information and a war of the mind against a well established foe and this foe is of the worst kind as it doesn’t see itself as the “foe”. If you are serious then you had better gird up those loins (so to speak).

One. You may fail. Come to peace with that. Chalk it up to lessons learned.

Two. You may succeed. Come to peace with the fact that your success may not last or that your success may lead him away from you. This of course is not your goal but may yet be an unseen outcome. He will still be forever grateful to the “one” who stuck with him to show him the truth. Success will come with a heavy price. Believing family/friends will not be ok with your success and the not ok part will never go away.

Three. Come to peace with the fact that if you take this on that it becomes a project. If you win the man then that becomes gravy.

You are in deep. I would take a personal life assessment if I were you. Do you really want to go down this path? Cause its really going to be draining on your soul if you do.

Set in the future - ironically Utah canyonlands landscape. Shows hero "fishing around" and finding a monster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpO13RuLg3k

I think your real message is for our TBM lurkers, from your post above:

“Touch not their unclean things. Too many Latter-day Saints today somehow believe they can stand with one hand touching the walls of the temple while the other hand fondles the unclean things of the world. We can’t do that. As Alma said, “Touch not their unclean things” (Alma 5:57). I plead with you, put both hands on the temple. Put your arms around the temple, and hang on for dear life to your family dream. If you don’t, the tigers will come at night and tear your dreams apart."


I'm Anagrammy and I'm suspicious.

If the writer of that OP is a 18-21 year old girl living in Mormon territory then I'm Dallin Hoax.

the chorus comes in to defend the OP.

But I'll do it again. BYU is on break.

OMG!! I'm missing the Kardashians!!

BFF

Scooter

I'm always all over BYU trolls during break.

However, I'll give this poster the benefit of the doubt. My 17-year-old daughter is in the creative writing dept. of a prestigious arts H.S. She writes as well as the OP (better actually).

;o)

Honestly I’m kind of flattered that some people think a 19-year old girl couldn’t have written this. (Optimism is sanity for me right now) That it’s just a troll… I don’t quite understand why a person would fabricate a relationship and a situation like this. What’s the purpose of that?

My dad grew up in CA and was into scuba/snorkling before we moved to AZ (where I’m at now). And ‘rockfish’ was just a nickname he always called me.
I get these quotes from apostles and whatnot from this board!
I was doing research on oral sex and the Mormon church and that’s where I got that ‘touch not unclean things’ quote.

I will say that a lot of what you guys say to me make it into letters to him. A lot of you articulate what I can’t. And bring up good points that I can’t avoid anymore.

Before he left on his mission, we never talked about this stuff. I didn’t want to cause conflict, and that was stupid of me. I think it’s also because I have a hard time articulating what I want to say and expressing myself on a sincere emotional level. (Not because I had daddy issues either) A lot of the time, I had to write down stuff before I said it to him. (About how I felt about him) And I’d give it to him in a letter.
Me being forced to write to him this whole time has been a mitzvah.

Went off on a tangent there, but I guess I’m just trying to say… Hm. I don’t know what I’m trying to say.
IF he does come back I’d be more than willing to link some sort of photo of us. IF I’m allowed to do that. Not sure what the rules are about all of that...

I'm in AZ, too. :)

It is really hard to break off a relationship when you really care about someone. I get that. It is hard not to get caught up in the drama and caring what the other person believes and does, etc. The point I would like to make to you is that you have no control over him. Period. You cannot change his mind or beliefs. Only he can do that. There is no magic word to snap a Mormon out of their trance, believe me I wish there was. :) The only thing you can control is your words and actions.

My advice would be not to run, but to distance yourself just a bit emotionally. When he sends you a letter, do not respond right away. Give yourself a bit of space and time before you reply. Do not allow yourself to obsess about the situation constantly. Find other things to occupy your mind for a few days before considering your reply to him.

If he comes home due to his own disbelief, then that will be his choice. It will be the choice you are hoping for, surely, but he has made the choice for his reasons, and he will have no reason to resent you later. If he makes any choice because he feels pressured from you, he will certainly resent you later, and his leaving his mission may be his greatest regret if he goes back to church. Just because the church is absolutely not true does not mean that Mormons will not cling to it until their deaths.

Hang in there, and pull away from all the drama for a bit. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2010 11:58AM by piper.

it eats at our self-esteem. We think, dammit, I'm worth him giving up his mission or his job or whatever is preoccupying him. Then we go about proving that we are worth that by getting him to return our feelings and expectations in the measure and ways we believe we need. If it doesn't happen, then we might think something is wrong with us and we need to try harder or something is wrong with him, even perhaps he is malicious and is toying with us. It's a hard place to be in. If you can let go and step back a little, it will be easier to sort out what's going on.

I'm almost positive she was posting under the name "Jewess" for a while as well...

Yes I was. I didn't know how permanent my stay here would be.

Even if you de-convert your BF and he returns from his mission, you *must* understand that you will become SATAN in the eyes of his entire TBM family.

My husband is and always has been a Jack Mormon . . . but his parents are uber-Nazi-TBM's. Believe me when I say it has been HELL having Mormon in-laws!!!!! You don't just marry the man - you marry his entire famdamily. And trust me when I tell you that there is zero chance of ever de-converting THEM.

Look further into the future than just BF's plane returning to Utah. Marry the guy and you will be fighting his family for your entire life. And when you have children, they will go after your kids.

You might win the battle, but I promise you won't win the war.

Think very, very hard about the path you are choosing.

;o)

I agree wholeheartedly with Shannon about the challenges your relationship would face. We hear about that kind of stuff on a daily basis here.

It's great to be there for him and help him see the truth. But keep in mind that that won't necessarily make you compatible (or obligated) to stick with him or marry him. Because if he leaves, he may change. A LOT. That could make you MORE compatible with each other. Or LESS.

If he WERE to leave, he'd need time for emotionalrecovery, reevaluation of his opinions/beliefs, and a lot of personal growth to do in his own life before he'd be a good candidate for marriage. I've been out for 11 years. I was a mess for about a year, and went through intense personal growth and rediscovery for a few more. I'm not the same as I was.

I consider myself lucky that my husband and I were able to grow together in the journey out of the church, but a large percentage of couples do NOT, even if they BOTH leave the church. When they discover their true selves, they no longer match up.

People need time to find THEMSELVES before they should connect their lives permanently to another.

Just sayin . . . because I would be nervous if I thought a guy might be coming home from his mission for me. That could really set you up for guilt/blame/obligation sort of stuff that you shouldn't have to carry. It could also be a warning sign of a controlling guy who can't stand to think of his woman going out with other men. Just throwing that out there and you can decide if it fits or not.

"The ex-bf and current missionary called me for a few minutes on Christmas."

Ultimately I want to be in a romantic relationship with him. Marriage isn't something I'd consider for another... 5 or 6 years. And with almost everything else, he says he can respect that and that's awesome. So... yep.

Statistics show that about 50% of new marriages this year will eventually end in divorce. Out of the 50% of couples that stay married, only about 1/3 of them say they are truly happy in the marriage. So basically, five out of six marriages either end in divorce or the couple being unhappy with the marriage.

So marriage is difficult, even when the two people think they are compatible at the time of the marriage. When any major incompatibility is present, the odds of a failed marriage get a lot bigger. A religious difference is a definitely a major incompatibility.

There are millions of men out there in the world that are potential candidates for marriage. Your best choice is someone with whom you are highly compatible.

As other posters have said, don't expect his family to ever change and quit the LDS faith. If your BF does quit the Morg, then his family will disown him. The only way for you both to conduct yourselves in that case is to totally disconnect from his family. That means moving to a city hundreds or thousands of miles away and then never visiting, writing, or talking on the phone. If you try to take a half-way approach and quit the LDS Church but still remain in contact with his TBM family, then they will make life miserable for you.

It sounds like your bf is playing you for a fool, and having a lot of fun doing so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2010 05:45PM by saviorself.

Rockfish, you are obsessed with this guy who walked away from you. Go to school and get an education and don't fall into this emotional entrapment. Just let it go and stop letting it become such a detractor in your life. At this point the relationship is not healthy. If it were it would build you up and not tear you down like this.

Agreed. OP, (if you're indeed genuine), you will do yourself a huge favor by focusing on your own personal interests and goals and let what's going to happen, happen. The future's a big place, hon, and there are a lot more possibilities than either riding off into the sunset with this missionary, or not. Maybe it'll work out, maybe not, but there are a lot of fish in the sea.

He may be having a good laugh at her expense, playing on her gullibility.
My view: time to cut the cord and make peace with it and let it go.

SusieQ, that's my impression too. He may have emotional ties to her, but he's clearly made his choice already. She talks about going on dates and BAM!, gets a letter saying he's coming home "sometime soon." Not really a stand-up guy to tell her that unless he means it enough to get right on a plane and do it.

He's got nothing to lose making these vague promises while she's the one putting her life on hold and "walking on eggshells" just to appease him; that's exactly where he wants her. Not a balanced relationship at all.

She's clearly a brilliant girl, but it's this relationship is halting her emotional growth. Stop with the ultimatums and start being authentic.

vhainya Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SusieQ, that's my impression too. He may have
> emotional ties to her, but he's clearly made his
> choice already. She talks about going on dates
> and BAM!, gets a letter saying he's coming home
> "sometime soon." Not really a stand-up guy to
> tell her that unless he means it enough to get
> right on a plane and do it.
>
> He's got nothing to lose making these vague
> promises while she's the one putting her life on
> hold and "walking on eggshells" just to appease
> him; that's exactly where he wants her. Not a
> balanced relationship at all.
>
> She's clearly a brilliant girl, but it's this
> relationship is halting her emotional growth.
> Stop with the ultimatums and start being
> authentic.


I agree! If she's "sick of walking on egg shells" -- she'll follow through and STOP this nonsense!
If I sound a little tough it's because I've seen missionaries do this to a girl!!

Don't be a pawn -- a play thing for a missionary.

The young man has committed enough to the church to actually be serving a mission--he's invested a lot. So, in spite of his doubts he likely feels he has a lot to lose if he is wrong. It is damned hard to be going in a direction and also second-guessing that direction.

Compounding this is the long-distance relationship aspect of this. You don't have the other person present to reassure you. You can't get all your questions answered. You don't have physical presence to give you additional information. You can easily end up endlessly trying to interpret, read between the lines, and guessing.

It is great rockfish is stating her position. I think the advice she got to pay attention to what he does is good. But what he is doing right now is serving a mission. When he gets home--early or not--then things will become clear one way or another.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2010 06:12PM by robertb.

You're right, and I don't think he's being sinister at all, but it's still not healthy, nor is it fair to create this unbalance between them.

It is frustrating and painful--long distance relationships often are. Absence does not make the heart grow fonder. As far as fair or unfair, both rockfish and the missionary are making their decisions. I don't see it as unfair as much as unfortunate. He's on a mission. Not much chance of developing a relationship right now.

The frustration seems to be over the missionary not having the same priority and need rockfish apparently does. His whole upbringing has been to put a mission ahead of a relationship until he has served a mission. There is pressure to do this and (at least perceived) rewards for doing so in his family and community.

He is "manning up"--in the way he has been taught to do it.

You are not admistering tough love. You are sending a solid message to him that in fact he can keep shoveling out this emotional sh*t and he'll still have a hold on you. (The length of that letter alone SCREAMS emotional hold--regardless of what you said.) Like the other poster said "actions speak louder than words."

No, it is not your job as his recent ex-girlfriend to help him through this emotionally.

You said in your post you think this guy is a "keeper." Are you trying to emotionally foster his "keeper" status for another woman he may meet later in life--or yourself? If it's you, you are emotionally attached and as long as you let him know you are emotionally attached (i.e., sending long, emotional letters to him) he knows he doesn't have to change his behavior (i.e., leave his mission) to keep you.

You want to help this guy and help yourself move forward in an emotionally equal relationship with either him or someone else? Cut off all contact and ignore all overtures from him until he calls you to say "pick me up from the airport."

Short of that you are just setting yourself for more of the same kind of treatment from a man who doesn't have any motivation to grow some to keep you.

PS--I don't think this situation has anything to do with Mormonism. I think this is the artificial obstacle he's thrown in the path of a relationship with you because you've shown him he doesn't have to man up and treat you as if he's crazy about you and that you are precious to him. If you were, he'd do anything to keep from losing you.

I agree totally. Mormonism is a secondary thing here. As a man who's in a long-distance relationship right now, I know that I'm doing anything in my power to change the situation and the location, to keep this woman that I call my lover and my best friend happy, to support her the best I can on a day-to-day basis. It's not easy, but I try. If I were to respond to her the way that your ex-boyfriend responds to you, it would scream out that I don't care or that I'm trying to manipulate.

Also, if you're really "ex" now, it's not your job to emotionally support him and help him through all of this. You've got too much water under the bridge for that. It's either all or nothing at this point, and you're clearly stating your position. If he's not willing to meet you on that side of the road then he's opted for "nothing". You want to maintain the emotional connection without the burden of the romance, and you can't do that. You'll just get yourself in more trouble.

Find someone else worthy of you. You sound like an intelligent girl with lots of good qualities; finding a good guy shouldn't be too hard for you. Don't settle for anything less than the best. Settling for less is what you're doing now and it's not working for you.

Your situation remind me so much of what I went through years ago. My HS sweetheart left on his mission my senior year of HS. We don't live anywhere near mormonland so I never really understood the whole control aspect of a mission. I just figured that this is what he's been preparing for for a long time and who am I to mess that up for him? But the pressure is immense. My youngest BIL who is 15 is already prepping himself for a mission (I always like to ask because most of my younger in-law siblings seem to tell me what they cannot tell their mother) but seems to not want to go. I think most of them get married or go on a mission to actually get away from my overbearing MIL.

Since my husband's mission (he served the whole 2 years) he's fallen inactive (he did that within months of coming home). It hasn't been easy especially when we got engaged. I have to say that if anything our situation has made my husband realize that he can stand up to his mother. I will never forget how much he fought for me and how much he defended me especially when MIL told him that I would never be good enough unless I was temple ready (read: mormon) and that his path would be ruined (she believed that he would become an apostle *at least* someday). Even though he did that I know what she really thinks of me and still does. So our relationship has always been strained. I still say that she thinks I'm satan's mistress.

I wish the best for you whatever you decide. I hope that he will see the light whether it's sooner or later. But just know that it will be painfully hard for him and for you as well.