Every time I think that being ex-mo for over 20 years means I'm good at defending my boundaries in a reasonable manner, something unexpected happens to remind me that I have far too much Sweet Spirit still lurking under the surface.

After a bad day at work I went to Starbucks and brought a book. On the drive there, I was really looking forward to some down time: relaxing with a cup of my favorite decaf (Sumatra) and enjoying zero demands upon my time or attention.

Coffee in hand I chose an outdoor table in an isolated location away from other customers, parked my butt and started reading.

Some random guy - normal looking/well dressed and groomed - then seated himself at table across from me and proceeded to insert his desire for attention into my down time. He started by asking what I was reading. I showed him the cover then said that my idea of relaxing after a hectic Monday is reading a book over a cup of starbucks. This polite shorthand for "I vant to be alone" has always worked before.

He didn't get the hint (or perhaps he did, but didn't think what I preferred was important). I did my level best to keep trying very pointedly to read but he kept talking at me.

He wanted me to hear about the following things: he's 'homeless' because of a minor inconvenience in his business travel plans, he's in love with his new macbook pro, he has some very specific thoughts on what time his friends might return from Miami tonight and how that will affect his schedule, and even though he and his girlfriend own a gigantic home nearby, they're taking a break from their relationship, followed by musings on whether and when he should upgrade to the iPhone 5.

I had closed my book. When he actually stopped for a breath I began to respond since it would've been too rude to really, truly ignore him and keep reading.

His cell phone rang and he actually held up a finger to alert me that he was putting me on hold to answer the call -- interrupting me mid sentence. My radar said "just leave now - nobody should put up with this" but like a chump I stuck around.

His responses on the phone made it clear that the call wasn't important. I had re-opened my book even though at that point it was impossible for me to focus. From what I couldn't help but overhear, I became certain that he was going to take off while he was still on the phone or shortly thereafter, so I could get on with my down time.

He hung up and without apology launched into another dry monologue as if he really expected me to stop reading and attend to his musings after he took me off hold.

I kept my responses very short and civil, kept my book open, and thought to myself 'surely he's about to leave'. He didn't.

For a second time, I was speaking while he held up that g-dmned finger and took another call on his cell. At that point I was angry, but curious to see how far he was going to push me.

After he got off the 2nd phone call, he started talking at yet me again. Right when I was thinking I'd never escape, the 3rd call comes in.

The instant he held up the "hold on" index finger, I calmly gathered my things and left.

There are times when I really wonder if my sweet spirit will ever grow a pair. I also wonder if guys like that are doing it on purpose, to see how far they can push around and dominate someone before they either tell them to f off or leave.

I still can't decide if he was just incredibly clueless and used to being catered to, or playing a sick game with me.

I would have told him to f off the minute that he sat down at my table.

I wish I had. He did manage to sit at the table next to mine instead mine but it was close enough that ignoring him was impossible.

In that case I would have raised my eyebrows over my book and then looked pointedly at my book. If he still didn't get it, then I would have said something along the lines of "..and you think I care, why?" I've actually used that line a few times. People like to tell me their life stories, when I don't even know them.

Definitely need to take a page out of your book. My polite attempt to be diplomatic failed miserably. Plus I'm ticked that in effect, I let his behavior chase me off.

The fact that you recognize it means it will be different next time. :)

I promise next time, you can channel me into you and chase the person away ;)

Excellent, I'll do that. Fidget is easy to remember!

fidget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have told him to f off the minute that he
> sat down at my table.


I'm either too nice, or incredibly rude. I don't know how to be in between. Telling him to f off would probably fall nicely in the middle, I'll have to try that next time.

You dont have to give someone that you dont even know your time. It wouldnt have been rude if you left. He interupted YOU. That was rude. I wouldnt say be rude back (mama taught me always mind your manners cuz you never know who's packin') lol but you dont have to be nice either. Be neutral. I am sure you know these things, it sounds like an "easier said than done" situation. Some people have very poor social skills like this. Dont let it bother you too much. Pratice makes perfect! At least you recognize that you're not being assertive enough. That's the first step.

I'll admit, the practice part is going to be a challenge. I pride myself for being"diplomatic" too often.

If you've tried being polite, one possible tactic is to read your book out loud. That usually conveys the idea.

when that happens to me, I get up and move elsewhere....

It sounds like he was clueless AND used to being catered to. It also sounds like he's not used to seeing people doing something like reading a book while hanging out at Starbucks. He's probably used to people surfing the net rather than reading, and looking for conversation as much as he is. sort of like strangers drinking alone at a bar often strike up conversation. If someone brings a book to a bar, it's a good sign that they are just there to enjoy their drink and book, not socialize. It's no different at Starbucks. Failing to notice and respect your boundaries makes him both clueless and self-centered.

You're not a doormat for trying to be polite at first, even though he was inconveniencing you. As it went on, sounds like it was just an awkward position. Based on what you've said, I feel pretty confident that he was just clueless and inconsiderate, and felt that his time, desires and needs are more important than other people's. I don't think he was just trying to screw with you.

If you frequently find yourself in situations where strangers are pushing your boundaries and you aren't comfortable telling them to leave you alone, I suggest you get some earbuds (and something to plug them in to, though that's not 100% necessary, nobody will know otherwise). Either start out wearing them, as a sign to people that you are otherwise engaged and they can talk all they want but you're listening to something else, OR work up the courage to say "thanks for the conversation/nice talking to you, but I'm going to listen to some music now" then put on the earbuds and pretend to not hear them ask what you are listening to, etc.

Great idea...I am going to pick up those earbuds, thanks!

I'm a guy and I'm amazed how women have been conditioned to be "sweet spirit doormats."

Hint: A guy will not take a hint. Anything short of "Get lost, you creep," will be taken as "hey, I think she likes me." Another woman will pick up on the "obvious" clues but a guy will not. This is due to evolution.

I often unthinkingly barrel around a corner in the grocery store. If I almost bump into a woman standing there she invariably says, "oh, excuse me," when all she did was stand there. I should be the one apologizing, not her. This is the world that guys have been brought up in--deferential women not standing up for themselves. Guys can easily interpret this as how is OUGHT to be.

So only by being forthright and blunt would you have been able to stop his monologue about how he was rich and available.

Oh, and to keep this on topic your mention of "doormat" reminds me of a famous talk about the role of women in the Church given at a BYU devotional by famed religion professor Rodney Turner many years back. He quoted a little poem:

Women are doormats and have been
The years those mats applaud—
They keep their men from going in
With muddy feet to God.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2012 06:43PM by baura.

Yes a little poem reminder that if men aren't behaving that is also our fault.

I admit I wondered if he was hitting on me with the "I'm rich, available" seeming topics. I'm not used to it, except for last two years I've been quite heavy. Plus I wear a sizeable rock DH gave me 21 years ago. Clueless guy didn't seem particularly desperate, but who knows?

I would say he absolutely was. And using the "someone will eventually say yes to me" tactic. Talk to enough women, soon enough you'll find a needy one that falls for the lies.

Good job departing. I too would have been kind of fascinated, like finding a zoo creature on the loose.

He was desperate. Part of being attractive is to be cool and NOT look needy or desperate. He initiates a conversation with you; he starts talking about how rich and available he is (but not a loser becoz he HAS a gf, they are just separated at the moment) and when you give off "not interested" vibes he keeps plugging away.

That's desperate.

It's a form of harassment. Sometimes if you speak up for yourself, they turn threatening.

Yes, I've received the threatening reaction for failing to cater to the narcissistic man who deems me worthy of his attentions. I used to carry pepper spray, now I carry my husband around with me.
I'm small, with big blue eyes and curly hair, I look like a good target, and my anxiety makes me one.
DH is my safety, I try to never leave home without him. :D Or my Kimber.

It really should be safe for both genders to sit in a public space, alone, unaccosted, but there are sociopaths in the world, and I do believe this gentleman was one of them.

Admit this always, always crosses my mind...

This is a situation where two little words that are very dear to me would be highly appropriate: "Fuck off"

We can never think of it at the time but he's showed you how to communicate with him. When he got off the phone you should have shown him the "index finger" and never look up from your book.

Somebody just posted this on Facebook, it's remarkable timing!

Next time a stranger talks to me when I'm alone I will look at them shocked, and just whisper quietly
"You can see me?"

Okay.....I'll be the dissenting voice on this thred.

I went to a bar and grill for a nice quiet dinner and a glass of wine. I was going through a divorce at the time and just wanted some quiet time to myself.

The person who owned the place was an acquaintance of mine, so I went there probably about once a week.

I sat down and was having a glass of wine when a guy sat down in the booth across from me. He introduced himself and asked if he could sit and eat dinner with me. I told him I really just wanted to be by myself. He smiled, went over to the bar got a coke and came and sat back down. I was very annoyed with him.

My dinner came. So did his, though I never saw him order it. Even though he more or less insisted on being there he was kinda quiet and didn't talk a lot. I only stayed there because I was hungry and didn't want to get up and go someplace else.

When I was done eating I excused myself to go to the ladies room. Instead I went back to the kitchen and asked my friend if she knew this guy. Oh yeah, I know him. He's my brother!

Twenty two years later.........

You coulda just said, "I'm not looking for conversation right now, thanks."

That's not rude, it's just being assertive.

This happens to me at least once a day. I was sat on a bench eating my lunch last week and a guy asked if he could take a picture of me. I think it's hilarious, I really do.
I'd never tell a guy to f-off just like that, I think it's unnecessary and you could be putting yourself at risk. If someone asks my number I say sorry I'm engaged, if they say can we be friends I just say no sorry. I don't think there's any need to be rude, but be firm.

I don't think telling someone to f off is always rude. There are times it can be overboard, but I don't see this as one of those times.

I would advise caution against telling someone to fuck off straight out of the gate. You never know when the person you're speaking to has violent woman-hating issues and will take that like a red cape waved at a bull.

I liked the suggestion of giving him that "hold on a minute" finger and pointedly continuing reading.

I might have also said something like, "I really came here just to have a few minutes of quiet time to myself, not to socialize. It was nice meeting you, have a great day." And then I'd move to another table/seat, take my book elsewhere. I'm not a big fan of hanging out at places like Starbucks anyway. I'd more likely get my coffee to go and take my book to a nearby park and read in between watching the ducks and geese float by.

Anyway, my point was: always start with a nice, polite fuck you, and then jack up the rudeness if the intrusive behavior persists. The first time, it's "I wanted some quiet time to myself, thanks." Do NOT apologize for it, but thank them (in advance) for respecting your boundaries. Even if they don't. The next time, I'll get a bit more rude, "Seriously, dude, I really wanted to read. Could you please leave me alone?" And the third time, "Fuck off asshole. Can you not see that I'm trying to read?"

I like this. Clearly and politely let him know you don't want to talk, and then step it up if he doesn't get it. So many times, people want to start right in with the angry reaction. People aren't mind readers. You do need to let them know. Sometimes you think that your body language should be clear, but not everyone is good at reading that.

Sometimes I bring a book everywhere I go because I am really engrossed in it and want to read any chance I can get. Those times, I do not want to talk to some stranger who just happens to be sitting nearby. But other times, I bring a book just so I have something to keep myself occupied when I am waiting somewhere, and I don't know if there will be anyone to talk to or not. And those times, if some friendly or interesting person wants to talk, I am happy to set the book aside. It was just my back-up plan anyway. So I can understand how a person who sees someone with a book might not take it as a message not to approach them.

Not to be insensitive, but there's a good chance that dude is posting the same story on some other forum from the other perspective and everyone's enjoying a good laugh about the person who expected privacy at a public restaurant.

Some people get their jollies that way.

It sucks, though, that you couldn't enjoy your book.

I have to agree about the fact that you never know who you're dealing with, especially when the guy is that persistent.

I've had guys turn very nasty a few times, even though I was trying to shake them off politely,.One time in particular, I saw a guy who'd just spoken to me on a ferry go psycho a few minutes later on somebody else who'd rudely told him to get lost. It was only then that I realized he was clearly mentally ill, though it hadn't been apparent in the few words he'd spoken to me. You just nerver know, so I save the "f-off" for times when it seems like a show of strength is really necessary, like if the guy starts to follow me or becomes threatening.

As annoying as it is to play sweet spririt, it's safer; you can always just say you've been looking forward all day to some quiet time to read, and you won't have another chance for a while, yada yada, but thanks anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2012 11:52AM by inmoland.

So next time you'll react faster. LOL!