I've been wanting, or better yet, needing to tell this story for some months now. This story is still on-going, and I'm not quite sure how it's going to end. But for now I need to vent a little, since I can't express my full outrage to family or friends. I'll try to be brief and to the point, so it's not too long.
We have been in our current ward for about a year, and during that time it came close to our oldest son to be baptized. Before the baptism interview, we received a packet that explained what to do to prepare for his baptism, and a list of all the baptismal questions he would get in the interview. I had never heard of such a long interview for an 7 going on 8 year old who was supposed to be without sin according to church doctrine.
This typed, 3 page list of questions contained all the questions an adult baptismal interview has, plus explanations for each question so the child could understand, most of which I thought was unneccessary. My wife and I looked it over and were bothered by the following paragraph:
"Baptism Previous Bishop Interview"
Law of Chastity - most children have not been exposed to sexual relationships or quite understand procreation powers and surrounding influences for good and evil. However, they are living in "enemy territory" and those corrupted influences surrounding them will be better thwarted at a young age before those not living Gospel standards introduce them tot he negative or corrupted aspects of intimacy. I have asked when you go swimming, why do you wear a swimsuit. <answer>. We wear swimsuits to cover our private parts. For your age the Law of Chastity means we do not show or touch, or let others see or touch, our private parts - we keep them private. Note: Be careful not to teach your child that human intimacy is wrong, dirty, or evil. Because later within marriage, it is a beautiful gift from God to be shared with a spouse. I have asked if they go around kissing. And then I have explained that you don't do those things before marriage that you do after marriage. Teach that marriage is between a man and a woman. We have friends both boys and girls, but marriage is especially saved. For most children, this discussion is sufficient to teach the Law of Chastity. Do explain that as they grow older, they will be taught additional information they need to understand to be ready to get married. As you provide a healthy, loving example with your spouse, they will grow to understand and appreciate the Law of Chastity guidelines.
Having an adult speak with our 7 year old son alone about "touching himself" and so on seemed just a little inappropriate to us, so we thought it would be no big deal to ask the bishop to please skip that question and to allow us to do the teaching when we thought it was appropriate. So the next Sunday my wife found the bishop in his office with his councilors & told him she had a quick question for him. Before she could get the question out, the councilors quickly excused themselves and closed the door leaving her and the bishop alone in the office, even though she told them several times not to leave because it was just one quick question.
He asked her to take a seat, and she asked if he wouldn't mind skipping that part of the baptismal interview. Then she saw the side of the bishop that neither of us had seen before. He pointed his finger at her and said "No I will not skip that question. How dare you come in here and question my authority as bishop by telling me what I can or cannot say?" My wife didn't say much, but was chewed out for about 10 minutes. When she came out and found me, her eyes were watered up and she wouldn't say what the bishop had said. So I excused myself from the library where my calling was and we walked outside, and she just kept saying she wanted to go home. Then finally she related to me all the things the bishop had said to her. It upset and surprised me to, so I told her to get in the car and I gathered up our children and went home early.
Later that evening I decided to meet with the bishop myself, to see if he would be bold enough to say to my face what she had told her. I went a few week later for the appointment, armed with a tape recorder. I got a mouthful from him (about an hour) and he made me feel very stupid for even having come in. But I'm glad I did. Here's a few of many things he said to me, verbatim:
Bishop: I will not ask this question if you choose not to have him come in to be baptized as for the interview. That's your choice. But if he does come in I will ask why do we wear swimsuits are you willing not to show your private parts and the reason I'm asking that is because even at 8 Satan is working his hardest to influence kids and you can not shelter the kids enough in your home to prevent every evil influence that can get to a child from getting to that child. Be it a radio, be it a television, be it even commercials for kids cartoons they have sexual innuendos that we don't recognize unless you actually sit down and analyze whats happening. So I'm coming back forcefully because I've been on this side of the table. When I got people confessing problems I've been on this side of the table not this actual table but talking to a bishop who says I have a child whose been masturbating since he was 9 years old did not know what it was and now I can't get him to repent or change because he didn't know at the time it was wrong and the parents never knew what was happening and now he can't go on a mission because he can't break that habit. So when you sit there and tell me... these are all the emotions that I'm going through because I have other experiences and your family may be perfect you may never have a problem with any of this and I hope your kids never do have molestation, see pornography in any form, or have those feelings and intents that Satan can put in a kids heart. I hope that you guys are immune to that but that's where I'm coming from. And if I don't carry out my duties I'm gonna be held responsible just as you as parents are gonna be held responsible if your children are not taught. You're taking care of your side. I have to take care of my side.
...
Bishop: So if you don't feel comfortable with me asking those questions um that's your choice I think you're making a mistake by delaying baptism heaven forbid should he be killed in a car accident that's something that you should have to deal with.
Me: Are you saying that he's going to go to hell if he doesn't get baptized right away?
Bishop: No I'm just saying that's additional work that would have to be performed after he's passed away.
...
Me: You have to ask the girls the same questions about touching themselves?
Bishop: Identical. I say it in such a manner those kids don't pick up on it but if they had ever been abused the door is then opened that the spirit can prick their heart they can then say oh yeah I've had somebody and I dread that ever happening. But it's there and unfortunately in today's society it happens and parents don't always know. So the way I ask it is when you go swimming why do you wear a swimsuit. We wear swimsuit to cover our private parts. We don't let others see our private parts, we don't touch our private parts, or touch or see other people's private parts. That's the law of chastity. Are you willing to do that? And most every kid it goes right above their head. Well yeah I'll wear my swim suit when I go swimming. That's the way I do it. That's delicate enough. Most kids understand it and it's the parents who are embarrassed that I'm talking about masturbation and talking about other things along that line. Now 4 years ago I would have been extremely embarrassed to even say that word.
...
Bishop: I think you're putting too much precedence on this as a parent concerned, then letting the spirit of the Lord direct what the interview is actually for and about.
...
Me: I just don't want it brought up with other people. He doesn't know you that well. He barely sees you at church and that's about it. And it's just gonna be...
Bishop: Then I would be very sad that he doesn't know the bishop well enough to know a bishop's interview because his whole life he'll be asked very embarrassing questions by men he barely knows that are his priesthood leaders.
Me: Well he's only 7 and we've only been here for a year.
Bishop: He's been in here to get treats from me. I see him in the hall, I talk to him standing up in primary. He knows me probably better than some of the other kids I've done interviews who are members of the ward, um, much other than just, well their parents don't come. So, I'm sorry but I can counter all of your arguments. One because I've heard a lot of them before. And two, um, I'm not gonna...
Me: Not gonna touch?
Bishop: Not going to be responsible for not asking the appropriate questions when I have been given a mantle. You've already taught your children these aspects. We just discussed that. I don't go into depth. And I'm...put off's not the right word. I'm a little offended that you don't trust me as a bishop to know sensitively how to cover these subjects at an age appropriate age.
Me: We're not upset at you at all, it's the policy that we don't agree with. We think that the church should respect the wishes of the parents.
Bishop: Oh so go ahead and write the First Presidency and (laughs) you tell him, write the same, go to the stake president, and if I'm not in line, you can bet that he will come down and not only will he address this bishop, but he'll call a bishop's meeting and all of us bishops will be put back in line. But I'm telling you from my meetings previously, and from my writing up and from my discussions with what he's having us talk about, um, 8, 9, 10, 11, what age are you saying should be the appropriate age for them to be taught this?
Me: Depends on the kid.
Bishop: K. That is not the way we have been instructed as bishops.
Me: Why do we have to do it exactly that way as a parent? Because I feel like I'm forced to talk to him about masturbation before his 8 year old interview for baptism, and I don't want to.
Bishop: That's the way you guys are interpreting it because of your nervousness in discussing it. You've already told me you've talked to your son about not touching himself. You've already talked to him about not wearing clothes. That's the extent of the interview questions. Do I use the “M” word is what it said? Never! Never. That's not age appropriate. Now when they're 12 and they're going to deacons camp, uh, I'll bring up a little more forcefulness. When they're a teacher, 14, 15 years old, you bet I'm hitting it pretty heavy because they're seeing friends at school, um, looking at inappropriate stuff. They're seeing their friends laugh and joke about inappropriate stuff. My concern is if we don't teach them at a younger age Satan's not giving up. He's not pulling back and well yeah that child's not ready to be taught that or that deacon, he'll never do that.
...
Bishop: Yeah. So, we're all rootin' for ya. We want your family to be a celestial eternal family again.
...
Just call him, he'll make an appointment. You can be sure that I will be called in by the stake president and he'll discuss with me what you discuss with him and he'll tell me the resolution. But if you feel comfortable after you hear from him you can come talk to me. Just know that I will be called back to talk to him about it because if one member of the stake has a concern then all the bishops will hear about that concern. And if they redirect, I will comply with what they say. It may become harsher. He may say bishop you're not carrying the intent far enough. So there you have it. Know I will bring it up to the stake president and say that you have a concern with this and that uh you're choosing to not to have the interview come forward because of, and I'll give him a copy of my letter, and say stake president do I need to change this? I have actually the, all the bishops have a meeting with him next Tuesday 7:00. So I'll bring that forward and make sure that I am still following the directions that I've been given. Are you comfortable with that?
To make a long story short, I did go to the Stake President and repeated to him what the bishop had told me, and he said that he had told his bishops to mention chastity, but that my bishop had taken it way too far. He apologized for him and told me he would have a talk with him, and that he would have the bishop apologize to my wife and I, and that he could only say to our son what we wanted him to say. 3 weeks later his secretary called us in to speak with him, and we went in and he finally got around to a really awkward apology, it was something like "I'm sorry if you were offended but." He agreed to say "Are you willing to be modest?" and to leave it at that. Baptism is coming up in a few weeks now, and I've only gone to our ward once over the last few months because of this. The time we did go, we felt really awkward and out of place. What's worse, is that he's going to be the one conducting the baptism! I don't want to make more of a scene than I already have, but I still feel very reluctant about the whole thing. But my son is really excited about being baptized. I told him we could go to a river, but he's looking forward to having it done at church with his friends and extended family. But as for the church I think we are near the breaking point. I probably shouldn't reveal too much about my personal feelings and beliefs here until it's safer to do so, but I did need to get this out there to people who care to lend their support and advice.