I was raised a born again or saved Christian and still believe in most of those principles. However, I'm thinking of converting to Mormonism, because it is more in line with my ideas about families/worship/etc, and I really love the local ward. Please don't give me all the reasons why NOT to convert...I've read those here.

What I'm basically asking is if those of you who are Christians think God would hold my Mormon baptism against me. Do you think it would deny me entrance to heaven? Do you think God would "take away" my salvation? Thoughts appreciated.

Who can possibly know the mind of god?

I don't think a just and loving God would care how you worship Him, or if you believed in Him or not. If God is a perfect, loving Father, then He just wants what is best for you. So do what makes you happy and don't worry about being punished.

Well, I was just asking because, even knowing what i know, I think that mormonism is a good way for me to serve him. I like who I am at a church and how I feel after I leave. I like the people, etc. I'm only asking because, deep down, I'm a born again Christian, and I don't want to "undo" that with a Mormon baptism.

Do whatever makes you happy.

My question is though, what about all your tithing? Wouldn't you rather do what jesus really taught and have your money actualy help people who need it? And so much time wasted doing busy work, it's not really helping the most needy.

If there is a god, I'd doubt he'd hold a mormon baptism against you. But revering people like joseph smith and brigham probably makes baby jesus cry.

MikeyA Wrote:
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>But revering people like joseph smith and brigham probably makes baby jesus cry.

I just LOL'd MikeyA!

How so?

Confused, why don't you talk to other born-again Christians about Mormonism? Ask the pastors at Calvary Chapel, for example. If you consider yourself born-again, go ask like-minded others. "As for me and my house," we think Mormonism is a mind-f*cking cult, which will wring all love for the Lord right out of your heart.

Do you?

I would recommend that before you convert, read Latayne Colvett Scott's "The Mormon Mirage." Latayne went the opposite route from you (from Mormonism to non-Mo Christianity.) Her commentary will help you to be fully informed about the choice that you are making.

Summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you?
>
> I would recommend that before you convert, read
> Latayne Colvett Scott's "The Mormon Mirage."
> Latayne went the opposite route from you (from
> Mormonism to non-Mo Christianity.) Her commentary
> will help you to be fully informed about the
> choice that you are making.

Great suggestion, Summer. I'd also recommend reading Judy Robertson's "Out of Mormonism," which compares Mormonism to Spirit-filled Christianity.

Mormons donot believe in the God of the Bible. They warp the Tanakh (Old Testament) and get many things wrong. For example the name of God. The following is the first part of a paper I wrote on the subject.

The very nature of God is the basis of religion. God's nature and the pronouncements ascribed to deity set the stage for the beliefs of a specific religion.

Mormons claim that the Mormon church is the restoration of a church founded by Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus was a Jew and so set his teachings within the framework of Jewish belief. He taught from the Torah and the Prophets and those teachings that can be ascribed directly to him do fit within the bounds of Jewish belief.

The Name of God

In Moses' communication with God, he asked God's name. This is the response:

“I am HWHY (YHVH) your Elohim...” Exodus 20:2. In many English translations of the Jewish Bible HWHY ((YHVH, the divine name of God) is often translated as Lord which is a misnomer. Elohim is typically translated as God. In this one scripture from the Jewish Bible we may easily see that Elohim and HWHY (YHVH, translated in some works as Jehovah) are one individual and that these two names are both referring to God the Father.

Elohim and Jehovah; who are they?
In Mormon theology Elohim and Jehovah are two very distinct individuals. Elohim is stated to be God the Father and Jehovah is Jesus Christ. However, Biblically speaking when dealing at least with the Torah and the Prophets (Old Testament) Elohim and Jehovah are one and the same. An even more compelling scripture is one that Jesus quotes in the New Testament. This will be discussed below.

The Mormon kingdom of God motif conceptualizes the systematic theological idea of the monarchic God. A god who sits at the pinnacle of a hierarchy of divine beings. In speaking of the Welsh Mormons and the views on Mormonism in the United Kingdom Douglas Davies states “ Some of these would have been strange to the ears of mainline churches1. Jesus Christ, for example, is said to be “one and the same person” as Jehovah. The one being the New Testament equivalent of the other in the Old Testament, (1914:8). There is little justification offered for assertions like this, they are simply made rather than argued. The interesting aspect of that particular identification lies in the aligning of New Testament with Old. Whereas most orthodox believers interpret Christ as the incarnate Son who advances the divine work into the future, this Mormon reworking of doctrine regresses the Christ into such a close association with the God of the Old Testament as to merge their identity. But there is an additional subtlety within Mormon theology which alters the apparent meaning of this linkage. For God who has dealings with mankind in the Old Testament was thought by some, and notably by Brigham Young, to be none other than Adam. So to link the Christ with both Jehovah and Adam left opportunity for a higher and less involved God. But Mormons differ much over interpretation of deity, especially in the later nineteenth century. To a large extent it was a problem of bringing systematic order to a large and mixed body of vaguer sayings of Joseph Smith and other leaders2.”

This teaching that Jesus is one and the same as Jehovah3 is central to Mormonism. However, this doctrine is not substantiated by the Bible. The Hebrew word for God is Elohim4. Jehovah comes from the actual name of God that God himself gave to Moses on Mount Sinai. Isaiah 44:6 states:

“Thus said HWHY [Jehovah], the King of Israel, Their Redeemer, the HWHY of Hosts; I am the first and I am the last, and there is no god [Elohim] but Me.”5

This points to the fact that Elohim and Jehovah are the same individual. An even more telling example of this is from Deuteronomy 6:4:

“Hear, O Israel! HWHY [Jehovah] is our God [Elohim], HWHY [Jehovah] alone.”6

The term “Lord God” which is used throughout the Old Testament is unfortunately a misnomer. More appropriately it should be YHVH Elohim. The first term, YHVH (HWHY)))) ), is God's actual name. The second is a type of honorific and simply means God. They do not indicate two different beings or personages. This verse from Deuteronomy is an oft quoted verse and is known as the “shema” or the observation. This verse is a foundation for Judaism as it proclaims the monotheistic belief of the Jews. Jesus, as reported in Mark 12:28-34, when asked what the greatest commandment was, quoted this scripture in Deuteronomy, “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one.” Here we see an example of scripture interpreting scripture and Jesus using the same terms Lord and God as referring to the same individual.7

An even more telling scripture is found in Exodus.

“God [Elohim] spoke to Mosses and said to him, “I am HWHY [Jehovah]. I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not Make Myself known to them by my name HWHY.””8

Here we may plainly see that God is Jehovah and that God the Father has the personal name of יְהוָה
(YHVH or Jehovah in English). An understanding of Hebrew and the various names and titles of God allow a person to understand the nature of God when reading the quotes given by what YHVH himself said in the Torah.

*****************************

Confused, do yourself a big favor and look very carefully at Mormonism. Joseph Smith got the nature of God wrong, they are not a restoration of the primitive church, and the upper crust of Mormonism is more interested in Mammon than helping people.

For more info check out: grapenephi.freewebpages.org

<<The very nature of God is the basis of religion.>>

Your founding premise is wrong.

Remember - a Mormon baptism cleanses you from your previous baptism. That means that you do reject your current belief and adopt a new belief.

The Doctrine and Covenants 9 says that if you feel anxious instead of peaceful then it is not of God.

8But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

9But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings...


You describe yourself as anxious and fearful. Perhaps God has given you the answer.

Your baptism is not that big a deal. Your commission of the Galatian error is a big deal.

Paul wrote Galatians as a response to the very thing that you are considering: leaving the freedom of Christ for an empty ritual religion.

Somehow I'm incredulous that you're for real. Either you don't know your Bible or you're pulling our leg.

You might want to read the Tanners. They are ex Mormons who became born again. If you want to be a Mormon, study it on your own and don't count on the mishies to tell you everything. Once you know the facts, doctrine, and history, and I don't mean the watered down version you get in church, if you still want to join, go for it.Mormonism works for some. Just make an informed and educated decision.I'd also check out some of the links on the first page of thos site regarding the temple. Many people are totally unprepared when the go and hate it.Look under short topics. There are a lot of stories. Don't let any one pressure you. If you do it, do it when you are sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2010 08:24PM by bona dea.

I'm sure god wouldn't hold it against you. Although, everyone here has seen the effects that this religion has had on our minds and would strongly suggest a different route. This religion plays with your mind and is driven by guilt. It will make you feel like total shit if you let it. I'd say stay away.

Hi guys. Thanks so much for your helpful/insightful comments. Olman, I will read the book of Galatians tonight. I had no idea it dealt with such a topic.

I'm just....I don't know where to begin. I'm at a place in my life where I feel lonely and kind of lost. I'd basically abandoned my original Christianity. I still believed, but I was drinking/smoking/sinning a lot. lol. Then, I started talking to the missionaries. And it felt GOOD to finally be able to talk about spirituality and God again. I'd been going to a unitarian type church, but it was way too new agey for me. I liked the missionaries...I liked the people they introduced me to..etc.

I really enjoyed the discussions and set a baptism date. I backed out on the first one. The second I showed up to church again, they set another one (for sat - New Year's Day). But again, when it comes down to the moment, I'm feeling scared/anxious. It's probably a result of my brainwashed upbringing lol.

When I missed out on my first baptism, I tried to put Mormonism out of my mind. But I kept looking it up...reading about it...,I was fascinated with the culture. Then, out of the blue, I met a raised-Mormon-still-believes-but-not-practicing Mormon guy and we hit it off. I really felt like it was God pulling me back in the direction of Mormonism.

Now, that the baptism date is coming though...I'm scared all over again. I think I'd be happy in the Mormon church. I think it would help me to keep my life on the straight and narrow. But I'm also afraid of what God will think...the baptism just seems so permanent.

Also, I really don't want to back out and disappoint everyone all over again.

I wonder why Mormons would be in such a hurry to baptize you?

Most churches make you take enough time to study and to show that you understand what you are doing. Even ther RLDS and Temple Lot folks will not baptize you right away. It could take months. Catholics take a year.

I wonder if the Mormons just want to snare you before you can change your mind?

Why don't you ask them if you can attend for a few weeks and see if it is right for you--see how they react.

Again, why would they be in such a hurry to baptize you when they don't know if you're committed enough to attend or contribute.

Why the rush? The Mormon church isn't going anywhere. Give yourself a year. During that time, read the materials that have been mentioned on this page.

The mishies are putting pressure on you to convert because you are basically just a number to them. Once you convert, they disappear. Ask any former missionary on this site.

There is a broad spectrum of non-Mo Christian churches between the very liberal, UU end, and the born-again or ultra-orthodox end. Why don't you take some time to visit them? Go visit the Episcopalians, the Congregatonalists, the Methodists, the Lutherans, etc. Talk to the church ministers. Go educate yourself. Again, there is no rush.

The Mormon church does not have special Christmas or Easter services (unless those holidays happen to fall on a Sunday.) How does that sit with you?

Go to any Mormon service and keep a running tally of how many times Jesus's name is mentioned vs. Joseph Smith's name. How does THAT sit with you?

Give yourself the gift of time. Examine all of your options and think it through.

Summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why the rush? The Mormon church isn't going
> anywhere. Give yourself a year. During that time,
> read the materials that have been mentioned on
> this page.
>
> The mishies are putting pressure on you to convert
> because you are basically just a number to them.
> Once you convert, they disappear. Ask any former
> missionary on this site.
>
> There is a broad spectrum of non-Mo Christian
> churches between the very liberal, UU end, and the
> born-again or ultra-orthodox end. Why don't you
> take some time to visit them? Go visit the
> Episcopalians, the Congregatonalists, the
> Methodists, the Lutherans, etc. Talk to the church
> ministers. Go educate yourself. Again, there is no
> rush.
>
> The Mormon church does not have special Christmas
> or Easter services (unless those holidays happen
> to fall on a Sunday.) How does that sit with you?
>
>
> Go to any Mormon service and keep a running tally
> of how many times Jesus's name is mentioned vs.
> Joseph Smith's name. How does THAT sit with you?
>
> Give yourself the gift of time. Examine all of
> your options and think it through.

You might want to read up on the kind of man Joseph Smith was. The book "Mormon Enigma" is very good.JS wasa polygamist with more that 30 wives. He lied to his first wife about it and some of his wives were already married and some were as young as 14.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2010 09:50PM by bona dea.

In Galatians chapter 1 Paul says that anyone preaching a different gospel should be anathema, or accursed. Joseph Smith definitely preached a different gospel, which the Bible considers to be a damnable heresy. If you consider the Bible to be the word of God, that's something to think about. Read the whole book of Galatians, in fact.

To answer your direct question, most Christians I know consider Mormonism to be a false religion, and not another form of Christianity. As a former Mormon, I wouldn't recommend Mormonism if you want to serve God or Jesus. If you want to deify a pedophile polygamist, then Mormonism is the way to go.

You said you like the ward, worship, etc. That's nice and all, but I would caution you - if you don't believe it, don't join. I converted after losing a loved one because I liked the idea that "families are forever." Deep down inside, I was never really sure that all the stuff about gold plates and seer stones and modern day prophets was true. The LDS church requires from its members total committment in all areas - financial, time, family. Remember, you are saved by grace after all you can do (which is a contradiction to the born again doctrine of being saved by grace not by works). You will be expected to devote your whole life to the church. Don't do it if you don't believe it. You will end up miserable.

Tell them you want to do some more studying on your own and you will let them know when and if you are ready to be baptized.Do not worry if they are disappointed. They will get over it and it isn't like they haven't been turned down before. They will try to pressure you and they will tell you not to read any anti Mormon literature or visit sites like this one. Everything to them is anti, unless it is written by a Mormon or sings the praises of the church. There are a lot of resources on the first page of this site. Please, read at least some of them. Consider that most churches don't pressure into an immediate baptism. My friend had to take classes for a year before she joined the Catholics. I think there is a reason for that, don't you? Mormons are a lot more interested in numbers than whether you know what you are getting into.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2010 09:04PM by bona dea.

Confused. Yep- That's what a relationship with God is all about-not disappointing other people!
I'll be disappointed if you don't start sending me 10% of all your future income. Email me & we'll set up an account.

Here are some questions to ask.

1. Do you want to be married in a secret ceremony which no one who isn't Mormon can attend and which involved Masonic ceremonies, costumes and secret handshakes?

2. Do you want to wear long john type underwear all the time once you have been to the temple?

3. DO you consider drinking tea and coffee to be sins and are you willing to give them up?

4. Are you willing to give 10% of your income to the church without anyone telling you what it will be used for and are you willing to do this even if you are not able to put food on the table or pay your bills?

5. Are you willing to do whatever jobs the bishop assigns because any calling he gives you is from God?

6. Are you willing to pay for a mission for any sons you may have or any daughters who may want to go?

7. Are you willing to participate in polygamy in the next life because Mormons believe that the faithful will be polygamists?

8. DO you believe God was once a man, has many wives, has sex with them and that you can become a god or goddess in the next life and give birth to spirit babies to populate your own planet?

If you have any problems with these things, think long and hard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2010 09:07PM by bona dea.

Confused, If you are really a born again Christian you should know that a person does not need to be baptized. All you need to do is accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and Redeemer. Baptism is an outward showing of your acceptance of Christ as your Savior. If this wasn't true the thief that hung next to Christ when he was baptized wouldn't have been welcomed into paradise with Christ. (He wasn't baptized and Christ told him he would be in paradise because of believing in him)

You will be getting what you deserve.

Also, your baptism is not permanent. You can leave at any time. Ask some of the former missionaries on this board how many people they baptized and then never saw again.

Also, Jesus forgives all sins, right? So if you join Mormonism and decide it's not for you, he will take you back, I'm sure.

I would strongly advise you not to pursue Mormonism at all, but if you get dunked and the decide it's not for you, that's ok. You don't owe them anything.

Baptism is not permanent. The missionaries want you to think that it is, because they want you to be committed. It's a sales tactic - they call it the "commitment pattern'. I used to be a missionary. They talk to you about things that feel good to you, get you in the habit of saying "yes", then ask you to act upon the what they have convinced you are your beliefs. Let me guess - when they asked you to get baptized, did it go something like this?
They talk about how Jesus is our Savior, atoned for our sins, and set the example for us by being baptized, then ask you,
"Will you follow the example of Christ by being baptized by one who holds God's priesthood authority?"
"We are holding a baptismal service on New Year's Day. Will you prepare yourself to be baptized by this date?"
The missionaries are not your friends - they are salesmen. I memorized missionary discussions out of a manual, to teach people word for word. They've loosened it up a little now to let the missionaries use their own words, but it's just a sales program.
Just remember that it's your choice to make. Don't let them pressure you into baptism - you can still go to all the activities without being a member for as long as you feel like it. And if you do get baptized, don't let them scare you by saying you made an eternal covenant. A loving God doesn't trick you into making covenants and then punish you if you find out later that it's not what you thought it was.
If I were you, I'd tell them that you're not ready for baptism, you just want to go to church for a while and learn more about it, and that you'll let them know when you're ready. Make it really clear that you don't want them to set a date as a goal. Then research sales techniques and see how many of them the missionaries used on you. Practice going to used car lots and telling them you don't want to buy a car. Make sure you are making the decision you want, not being pressured into it.

That the Moprmons teach that Jesus' sacrifice and Atonement are taught as models of perfect obedience? Did you know that it was not Love for us, but love for the Father that brought about His willingness to sacrifice Himself so that the Law be fulfilled and we return?

Did you know that according to many chruch leaders, Joseph Smith will judge you in the hereafter? Here are some quotes:
“[There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 1, p. 190

"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are"

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 289

"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men."

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 282

"He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ"

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 312

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, 1988, p. 142

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God.. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, ‘Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;’ if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 154

Joseph Smith gets more play than Jesus. Christmas and Easter are minimalized and basically are celebrated at home. Holy days like Good Friday , Palm Sunday, Lent, Advent etc don't exist. There are only services on Christmas if it falls on Sunday. There are times at Easter when they hold conferences and Jesus barely gets a mention. Next time in church, count how many times terms such as prophet, Joseph Smith, Monson, the brethren, tithing, temple etc are used and compare it with how many times Jesus gets a mention.Don't count songs and prayers for either. I think you will be shocked.Another question is whether you really enjoy the three hour block. Do you go to all of it?Do you want to do this every Sunday for the rest of your life and do you want to be told where to go? You don't get a choice and it doesn't matter if you like the ward or bishop. Notice how lacking in spiritual ity it can be, not to mention noisy if you are not in a adults only ward.

As a Christian, the thing that bothers me the most about the Mormon church is the middleman aspect. Do you feel that a bunch of people--the church hierarchy--have the knowledge and authority to dictate the relationship between you and Jesus?

Do you feel it's appropriate to sit through a worthiness interview with some well-intentioned fool off the street (otherwise known as the bishop) who will pass judgement on how righteous you are--or do you feel that's between you and your God?

Do you feel that you can come to an answer about whether a given activity is harmful (coffee, porn, etc) through scripture study, prayer and honest questioning--or do you need someone to make those decisions for you with your only role being obedience?

Do you really believe that Jesus would approve of building lavish temples that are only available to the obedient and tithe-paying--or would he want his temples open to those who need them the most (the lost, the sinful, the rejected)? Come to think of it, would he want multi-million dollar temples built, or would he rather that money be spent on food, clothes, schools and vaccines?

In my own denomination--Lutheran--we believe in salvation by faith, grace, and the Word alone. All the other baloney the Mormons dreamed up will only serve to distract and distance you from a genuine relationship with God.

I would also like to add that the warm feeling you get from Mormon worship can be found (times ten, I would wager) in other churches as well. You've been given excellent advice in other posts to visit LOTS of other services; you'll find that a warm, loving, prayerful, lively congregation isn't hard to find.

Good luck with your decision and remember that what God wants the most is for you to love him, be close to him, and do his work by sharing the Gospel and loving others as Jesus loves us. That's what matters.

*Athiests, please don't attack my post; I realize that these are my own religious views which I am sharing with another professed Christian.

Bad idea. Sure it might seem right for you for awhile, but what about your children? Do you have any? Do you plan to have any? Do you want them to grow up in cult? How could they respect you/forgive you for joining a cult that you already know is not true, once they themselves find out it is a big fat lie?

I see misery in your future as a mormon. And I see a double dose of misery for your children.

Don't do it.

I agree. I have know problem with an informed adult joining the morg if that's what they want to do.

But raising children in the church, and teaching them it's true, is just evil.