Ok, so a few weeks ago I got some of my receipts together to turn into the ward clerk so that I would be reimbursed from the ward budget for all the things I bought for my calling the last month or so. When I made a big deal about getting them all in before the end of the year so the budget was used and our scouts wouldn’t have to have this come off next year’s budget, the ward clerk told me a little known something about the budgets this year. Apparently the wards had to run a system update in October/November and when it was done it wiped out the entire budget records from the wards. They lost everything as far as records on what they had left and what organization had what left to spend. He had our bishop call the SP and find out what was up, and he was told this was happening all over the place. Then magically, one day there appeared a check statement saying around $5,000 or so was available in the wards budget account. He had no idea why this was as he was only a financial clerk so he was not told why the system changed, or why the records had been removed, only that this money was for the next quarter and each quarter there would be funs received instead of an annual allotment.

I shrugged this off as strange but at that moment one of the councilors in the bishopric walked by and we started talking about the budget change and he mentioned in passing that his brother works for a company owned by the church (Bonneville) and that they are in a lot of trouble with the IRS. Apparently they are cleaning house and getting the books straight and he guessed that this had something to do with the recent ward budget changes. I mentioned the chapel cleaning assignments, and we both had that same thought that the $$$ that was being spent perhaps was not completely above the board, and we knew that the lady that used to clean our building was Hispanic, possibly illegal as her English was not very good at all?? But perhaps the church not only was hiring illegal immigrants to clean the buildings, but also contracting this out with companies that the IRS is now investigating??

I wondered if someone else has heard anything like this? I will say this, I know for a fact that the ward budgets were changed, I assume if that is the case in AZ, it is the case everywhere else.

might be slightly OT but here is what I know. A family member is a job coach trainer for the DI and every year the DI for Christmas, and before school does a "bishops night" the bishops give needy people permission to go to the DI to get $X of stuff: new School supplies, new toys for christmas etc. This was the last year they will be doing it. It is now up to the wards to help each needy family through donations directly to the ward or through the fast $$$.
When people went to the DI with their orders-an actual form with a dollar amount and some instructions from the bishop-the DI would make the people go through the cash registers and ring everything up including the sales tax. They actually rang up each item and considered it a sale even though no money was given just the order from the bishop. So the DI could use this charity for people as a sale for the DI. I always wondered how they figured out the money. Do they bill the ward??? Salt Lake??? For the christmas and school bishops night the items for sale/given to charity listed real prices not prices you would see at a second hand store. These items were not available to the general public. It didn't make a lot of sense to me.

First year we were married mom gave my nevermo husband a "scrub brush" for his back. It looked like a toilet brush. So that was how we used it. It wasn't the last time she did something weird like that. But now I wonder if toilet brushes as Christmas are thoughtful gifts for our Morones loved ones.

This is HUGE and I think you would have better response with a more accurate title. IT's really not about the ward budgets, it's about the Day of Reckoning being on the horizon. The one we've all been waiting for, the one where the IRS steps in and says, "Wait a minute...we have some questions."

Try

TSCC CLears Ward Budget Numbers System Wide "Accident"? - IRS Investigation?


Anagrammy

Do you honestly believe the Church is so unsophisticated they're going to do something like misappropriate funds and break federal tax laws?

I understand what you're suggesting but I think the organization is very sophisticated and they know damn well all possible legal implications of anything they do prior to doing it. They are not going to get the Feds to come down on them.

That's why it's called Lying for the Lord. Just think: They had an "accident" and deleted all the ward budgets coincidentally at the very end of the year, when it's time to run all the summaries.

Call me suspicious, but I don't think that's an accident given they just recently added "assisting the needy" to their mission. Put those two facts together suggests the possibility of IRS problems.

TSCC has a long history of playing fast and loose with the law, just think polygamy, or counterfeiting, or bank fraud, bigamy, murder, shall I go on? Cults believe they are only obligated to obey God's law, that's why polygamy is still mandated in the D&C.

Finally, nobody "let's" the IRS come after them. Sometimes they just get arrogant and feel like they wouldn't dare. If they were super rich and powerful and had a god complex. Hmmm.


Anagrammy

In a word, YES!

agree 100%

It's easy to get arrogant and think you are untouchable. That's how these big shots get in trouble - you see it in the news all the time. They are smart and slimy and have connections but it's really easy to go all Tiger Woods and think you are untouchable. Especially if you are on your way to Godhood anyway.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor

Let's wait for some solid proof. 'Nuff said.

This always generates plenty of WTF moments for the users of the system as the new snafus (as opposed to the snafus they were used to working around) get ironed out.

LDS Inc owns a list of corporations (at least) as long as your arm. If they ever get it trouble with the IRS, I'm pretty sure it won't be over Consuela mopping the RS room. There are much bigger fish to fry.

First Leona Helmsley got busted for more than just saying that "paying taxes is for the little people" and it was one of her own servants that busted her.

Then Meg Whitman lost the governorship of California in part because of the story released about one of her servants being an illegal immigrant, etc., etc.

The IRS might not go after the cult just over an illegal immigrant cleaning lady but they might put a lot of tiny infractions together and come up with an institutional policy that thinks it is impervious to audit. I think anagrammy is right: the cult has always played fast and loose with the law. Let's hope this time it burns them!

:-)

Or something very similar. There was a sudden change at the end of the quarter, and first it looked like the budget was cut, but then more money appeared. I can't remember exactly.

There is definitely something going on with budgets, but possibly just policy and software changes.

That is interesting about Bonneville and the IRS. Hmmm.

I can confirm the financial update crisis part -- around Oct/Nov they did the update and every ward in our stake had a $0 balance on the ward budget. But, every ward in an adjoining stake had over $50,000 (which is about 10x what their budget would have been at the beginning of the year).

So, things got really screwed up.

I never heard how they solved it, but our bishop had been hounding people to quit spending money back in June; in fact, said that our YM budget for the entire year was gone in July. But, 3 weeks ago he went on a spending spree and paid an extra deposit for scout camp ($600) and bought new scout tents ($300).

So, if the YM were out of money back in July, how is he spending $900 in December.

Of course, it is all funny money anyway. Church checks can't bounce -- they are as safe as a cashier's check. And, if you spend too much, then it comes out of the stake budget (or the wards in your stake that came in under budget).

As for illegals cleaning the church buildings. Here in Idaho, it was all retired or semi-retired white males. They kept reducing and reducing until 4 old white guys were cleaning all the buildings within 50 miles of Boise.

The sad part to me is that most of them, while retired, didn't have enough retirement income to make it without a supplementary job. So, now the members are guilted into cleaning the buildings and these old guys are greeters at Walmart.

That's pretty much classic American corporate greed for you.

you can say that again

This is all part of the new accouting system CUBS. It was officially rolled out in October. At that time all ward budgets were essentially erased and replaced by the new system. Our ward had approx $3.5k left to spend for the year. We were given a check at the end of November for less than what we had remaining in Oct. However, CUBS allows roll-over from qtr to qtr and year to year. We ended up with a small positive balance going into 2011 as a result of the bishop telling everyone not to spend $ until the picture became clearer.

The new system is: Each quarter the Stake sends a check to the ward for the next 90 days. Budgets are still calculated based upon SM, YM, YW, Primary attendance numbers. We are waiting on our Q1 2011 check but expect it to be approx $3.2k. Surprisingly this is an increase over last year.

My dad was a big real estate developer and the church called him on a mission to the Church Office Building because the church needed someone with experience in real estate. He said it was a real eye opener when he found out the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve don't run the church. A bunch of hired corporate types do. My dad said the apostles and prophet can't run the church because the organization has grown so big, it's over their heads and so they have hired corporate professionals. This with correlation have ruined the church and this is why there is the focus on commercial real estate and other interests. My dad also hated Elder Burton and said he is a big reason the church is out of touch and corrupt. He said they tell the First Presidency what they want to hear and they do their own thing and the First Presidency lets them. One thing also, to fix any corruption would mean exposing it and the church leaders are scared to death of tarnishing the church's image so they turn a blind eye to it.

The LDS Church is really not that much different than the US Federal Government. The politicians come and go but the agencies stay forever. We have all these federal agencies ran by unelected officials who answer to nobody and they run the show. Some of the most powerful people in Washington DC are out of sight and unknown. It's the same with the church now. The apostles smile and waive and travel around while the real power brokers are in Salt Lake actually spending and making the money.

You know, this is the first thing I've read lately that makes me optimistic that the church could be involved in a scandal or "implode" in some way. I figure the guys at the top (the Prophet etc) are really believers and also have plausible deniability for any financial shenanigans.

But if it's just run-of-the-mill greedy banker types running things, then there's quite a bit of a chance of a Lehman Brothers or AIG meltdown occuring.

But still, with 6 billion a year of fun money coming in, I suppose they could implode and we'd never even know about it.

If this is true:

Federal law prohibits ministry founders and their families from unreasonably benefiting from proceeds raised by a tax-exempt ministry. All compensation - salaries and perks - must be considered "reasonable." ~from the Rick Ross Institute site, on the Joyce Meyer ministries page

I guess "founder" doesn't mean the current guys in charge---but can't it be applied, generally, as a standard? If the LDS church is running a business, it's a business, not a church; if the guys in charge unreasonably profit from the businesses the church runs, or are running the church primarily as a con to benefit the few (them), wouldn't they be in violation of this rule?

Maybe no criminal charges, but you never know...