I'm trying to get some statistics on this. If you know of some work that has already gone here, I would be very interesting in reading it.

Would you also mind indicating whether you paid on gross or net during your faithful days of participation in LDS? I'm trying to gather some data. Thank you!

DW and I paid on gross as do at least two of her siblings.

Thank you!

Smeagol.

My tbm mother is about the retire and she has always paid Gross and will be paying gross on her 401K and SS money. When i pointed out to her that if she paid Gross while working she has already paid tithing on some of the 401K and that she has been paying tithing on her SS (not the accrued interest or the vested employer matching) but she said that it doesn't matter she will do what it right. blah blah blah

Ewwww!!

GROSS!!

...for over 28 years.

That makes me GAG!

You are correct-she has already paid tithing on her SS and on most of her 401K. Its hard to get through the brainwashing. Once her money runs out, then you will be supporting her 10% sooner than if she didn't pay. DC 119 says 10% of interest, not 10% of income. You might be able to convince her she only needs to pay 10% of the accrued interest on her 401K, but like I said, the brainwashing runs deep.

I always paid on 10% of net. My thinking was, 15% of my income is the government's interest, and I never saw it, because it was deducted right out of my paycheck. I never felt obligated to give the Lard 10% of what I don't have.

My last two Bishops were men of business and juggled much more complicated personal finances than my own. They taught me that tithing on one's "increase" meant after expenses, including the expenses of citizenship (taxes).

The idea of tithing gross is gross. I didn't know that existed until I saw it here. I payed my tithing in Canada so maybe that has something to do with it.

As a general rule, tithing wasn't something discussed when I was a TBM, except when gossiping about missing family members at Temple gatherings, when the question would arise, are they missing because of sin or because of tithing?

As a TBM I never had a hard time paying tithing. It just came off the top and I didn't miss it. It was just my duty, and I even thought it was fairer than taxes.
But now I see it as the MAIN symbol of control by the cult.

Mrs Truthseeker pays on net.

But then when I was in college I got into a discussion with the wife of one of my friends who sat me down and did the math. When you have taxes, a mortgage payment, car payment, kids, etc. it's just unreasonable. After that, I began to notice that when leaders of the Church talked about tithing they would qualify it with "as it has been explained to you." So, I realized that paying on net is also acceptable.

Then, of course, you occasionally get into tithing settlement with some tool of a bishop who says that you're supposed to pay on gross, but I just said I'm not going to do it and they back down. BTW, I rarely even went to tithing settlement. I used to say I was a full tithe payer at worthiness interviews, and they never doubted me. I'm not from Utah though. I suppose it can get pretty extreme there.

Let's just look at it this way...imagine your incremental tax bracket is 90% (it has been that high in some places and at some times). You make an extra $10,000, what's your tithing on it? If you pay tithing on the gross you pay TSCC $1000 and the government $9000 and you have nothing left. That clearly shows that just paying on the gross is crazy. Let's say your "net" from the $10000 is $2000 instead of $1000, paying $1000 tithing and keeping $1000 is clearly still crazy. Obviously paying on the net is the only thing that makes sense.

To get even more crazy let's factor in high inflation like we had around 1980....you gain 10% from an investment, but inflation is 12%...your net worth has actually gone down in real dollars...do you still pay any tithing at all on the 10% from the investment? The church obviously thinks you should, even though your real "increase" has been a "decrease" due to inflation. Even if cost of living only goes up by 2% and you get 2% interest from a savings account, the same principle still applies..you owe nothing since you don't have a real increase.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2010 01:33PM by bmg.

Which is our current federal tax system. You only pay 90% (when that was the top tax rate) on the part of your salary above all the other tax rates. You're never going to have nothing even if you do tithe on gross.

But what I don't understand is why tithing on gross is even considered. When JS, Jr. said to tithe it was when there was no federal income tax at all. So he was tithing on net at that point because as far as taxes were concerned gross was the same as net.

I think the Federal Income Tax started at 1% back in like 1913.

Rereading what I wrote I can see that I wasn't completely clear that I was only referring to the tithing on that extra $10000. The point is that paying on the gross makes no sense, because depending on the incremental tax bracket you're in, you could actually end up gaining nothing from income past a certain point, you getting less than what the church gets from it, or even have a loss after paying tithing. Let's say your incremental tax bracket for extra income is 91%, and you pay tithing on the gross. In that case you'd actually loose money for every extra dollar you made if you paid tithing on the gross.

Long ago I paid tithing on the gross until I realized how crazy that was when I was moving into higher incremental tax brackets, and inflation back then was actually reducing my net worth, in spite of what I might gain from investment or interest income. Now that I know it's all a fraud I pay nothing :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2010 02:51PM by bmg.

In the 70's and 80's - in the UK - I always paid on Net... as did most other people (in my area, at that time) to my knowledge

including on my trust fund money. Now it makes me really mad. We paid on our net income the first year I was out of the church, but the second year, we decided to pay on half our combined gross income and put an equal amount to the charity of my choice instead of the Mormon church. That's been fun, deciding each month where I wanted the money to go: a homeless shelter, Girl Scouts, World Vision a couple of times, a Native American charity, the Food Bank etc. You actually feel GOOD when your money goes there, unlike paying tithing to the church, where you just feel stressed and resentful and getting felt up for your extra cash.