I Just told my wife this week and she has been awesome to listen to all of my concerns. She now has her own concerns and has expressed them to one friend. That friend is of course telling her to go talk to the bishop but I definitely don't think that will give her any answers. What experiences have you had when confronting a bishop/stake president with questions you've had about church issues?

It isn't about the issues.

He is required to fill out forms and check off the boxes to submit for your Court O'Love.

Never meet with a bishop to discuss "the issues." Do not allow yourself to be ex'd-- resign before that happens so they can't excommunicate you.

Why? Because if you work in the Morridor, they can find that out and it negatively affects your ability to get hired, promoted, etc.

It is better for you to be proactive rather than reactive, which is what resignation is.


Anagrammy

PS. If you think it will help "clarify" things, you are mistaken. Ask this board how many members had the bishop say "I agree." One guy did that I know of--Dennis Farley, author of "Portals of the Night" and retired Salt Lake Attorney. Every single authority all the way up to Dallin Oaks told him they agreed with him, however, Mormonism was such a wonderful religion, they stay for the "family benefits."

Gospel Doctrine professor and presented him with my rather timid questions about why JS was involved with the masons and a few other pressing issues, he went white as a sheet and told me I needed to break off my engagement with my RM fiance because "he'd never be happy with me". Years and years later DH and I laugh at his prediction

...when it comes to bishops and questions. You will find few on the board who would recommend talking to ANYONE about your concerns outside of spouse, trusted friends and family.

Personally, I knew the bishop before he was bishop and actually thought that he had strong doubts. Once he ascended the bishoply throne, however, he became a rabid TBM. I think most of them have to become such in self-defense.

Talking to my bishop was actually pretty educational. As he was trying to resolve my concerns with personal revelation (which didn't work for me at all), he mentioned that he'd had some trouble accepting polyandry. I'd never heard of that, so I researched it, and resigned shortly after.

Neither my bishop or stake president filled out "forms" for me. They just talked. (Maybe they did that after the fact?) Either way, no chance to excommunicate; I resigned first.

It doesn't matter if you talk to the Bishop, the Stake President, or the Prophet himself.

I've been on this board for 12 years. Nobody has EVER come back and said "Ah, the bishop answered by questions, and finally, I can see that there is a clear and simple explanation for the [fill in the blank here]."

Nope. The bishops usually rely on exhortations to have faith, read the scriptures, and often throw in threats that if you leave the church, your life will fall apart. Oh, and sometimes there is an impromptu interview to discover which sin you committed that caused you to doubt. And usually, after the interview, suddenly people in the ward start treating you differently. Occasionally, the bishop fans the marital conflict over one spouse leaving.

The answers are out there. Your wife can find the facts on her own. The bishop won't encourage her to find answers. He'll encourage her to stop looking, and to rely on emotions.

about what is "really" going on in your home, then they will talk to the home teachers and all will share this with their wives, who will share it with their BFF's and the gossip train will be rolling merrily along.

Anagrammy

EVERY time I did, the VERY first thing out of every single one of their mouths' was, "Are you living all the commandments? Is there any unresolved sin? This could be effecting your testimony."

Usually they took my temple pass. Maybe told me to not take the sacrament for a little while.

I never had one get mad, threaten excommunication, courts of love, or be anything but kind in throwing the problems that are in the church right back at me.

Although not as dramatic as other stories this helped wake me up tremendously. It took awhile but I finally saw the light. There was no way that I was ever going to believe what they were telling was my fault that I didn't believe.

I say going to the bishop helps as long as you aren't a push over.

It's called "blaming the victim." Mormons are masters of it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2012 03:34AM by baura.

Why that recommendation??

"EVERY time I did, the VERY first thing out of every single one of their mouths' was, "Are you living all the commandments? Is there any unresolved sin? This could be effecting your testimony."

Usually they took my temple pass. Maybe told me to not take the sacrament for a little while."

So in a 'very nice' way, they basically accuse you of doing something wrong...and even if you did sin-in their eyes (smoke, drink, mess with the little factory, etc..), they would STOP you from fully participating/worshipping your "Loving Heavenly Father"...("in the name of Jesus Christ..Amen").


NOT very Christ-like.



For those lurking here/questioning...If you REALLY want to know what CHRIST wants for you (in a very nondenominational way)....read the B-I-B-L-E...
Not the BoM, nor should you rely of church leaders to educate on Christ...because they have no clue..

I recommend talking to him because the OP asked about helping his DW out of the church. Listening to these men blame me for their illogical thoughts eventually snapped me out of the brain washing.

BTW, how is talking about CHRIST non-denominational?

I meant in a non-catholic,non-lutheran...non-Traditional Christian religion way. Just read the words attributed to Christ. (and I am no bible-thumper) The words themselves go against what's in the BoM

If you depend on the Bible, be sure to treat your slaves as recommended. Your genocides also need to spare the virgins.

I have not addressed concerns with the bishop. He knows I no longer believe, but his only concern is that I let my wife raise he kids mormon. I capitulate, but wait with open arms they are ready to ask thoughtful questions.

They are overly anxious for tithing money. They might be able to accurately prophesy that the tithing well might be getting drier than they would like.

There is no point in talking to church leadership with questions or concerns. The only help they can give you is advice to keep your covenants, read scriptures, attend meetings, pray, fulfill your callings, and a thousand other things that will not provide answers to legitimate questions. They have nothing else to offer. I'm sure our bishop doesn't know even a fraction of what we now know. They've never looked, or they have looked and shelved it because the BOM is true.

Remember, the leaders are not interested in truth; they are only interested in belief. If truth challenges belief, then guess which one is thrown out the window?

You know those drooly, gooey, chewed-on teething biscuits you see hanging out of every Mormon baby's mouth?

Well if you ask the bishop or stake president what about Mormons Inc. this and that, what you'll get in return is the doctrinal equivalent of those teething biscuits: drooly, gooey, chewed on, disgusting, and totally useless.

Aren't you sick of that pap yet?

Hopefully your wife has enough doubts to make it through. It seems to me that spouses can get sucked back into the church and divide a part of the marriage if not the marriage all together. Once the divided spouse is back in church they get all kinds of love and support against the nonbelieving spouse.

They have ONLY ONE thing in mind...SHUT YOU UP!
If you are ANYTHING other than very sorry for your lack of faith and don't humbly submit to their correction...they'll "have" to threaten you with discipline.

They are coming from a solely authoritrian regime mindset.

Their kindness and tolerance is a mask for their paternalistic father-always-knows-best delusion. If you don't fall back in line they get passive-aggressive on you...all fake smiles as they threaten you. Then they do the whole I-hate-to-have-to-do-this, this-hurts-me-more-than-you crackdown, and they yank your recommend, they release you from your calling, and your are suddenly a leper.

DO NOT TALK TO A BISHOP UNTIL YOU'RE READY TO SPILL THE WHOLE BAG OF BEANS...BECAUSE IF YOU'RE STILL NOT SURE AND STILL THINKING OF STAYING IN THE CHURCH AND FAKING IT...YOU JUST BLEW YOUR COVER!

Your bishop has no answers because there are no good answers. If you decide to meet with him, all you want to know from him is:

Can you accept that our doubts have nothing to do with ‘worthiness’ but with genuine doctrinal disagreements and historical issues? OR will you assume our doubts are founded in ‘sin’? Will you allow gossip among ward members speculating about our ‘worthiness’?

If we decide to leave the church, will you respect that decision even though you might disagree? OR will you make us a ward 'reactivation project'?

Will you be able to greet us as friends when we meet in the community even though we may no longer be members? OR will you avoid and shun us? Will you encourage ward members to avoid and shun us?

Will you respect and support our marriage? OR will you attempt to divide us or in any way foster estrangement between us?

Will you respect our role as parents by observing our request that any contact with our children be only with our knowledge and permission? OR will you allow youth leaders to go around us and contact our children without our involvement?

Had some experiences:

- Denied the issues, once the facts were verified he acknowledged that they were true but offerred no explanation, bore testimony.

- Looked at me with a 'deer in the headlights' look and would not acknowledge anything and just asked me questions about my actions and then bore his testimony.

My advice: I would know some issues well, supported by church resources and start a good discussion on the issues - some bishops will actually try to figure it out, others maybe a seed is planted (you hear that story all the time), some will go up the line to try to get your issues resolved and others will just try to get you to shelf your concerns.

Every bishop and SP is different in their reaction and knowledge.

Good Luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2012 10:21AM by mormonthinker.

In my experience, they will try to pressure/scare/threaten the questioning person back into activity.

If that doesn't work, things will get uglier and uglier. They WILL threaten your marriage, try to convince the remaining spouse to divorce, etc.

Since LDS belief doesn't admit that valid causes for exodus exist, they HAVE to fit you into one of the accepted scenarios: sin, anger/offense, brainwashed by Satan. If your case doesn't obviously fit one of these scenarios, they will assign one and proceed accordingly.

It's their JOB to keep you in, no matter what it takes. Visiting with them is only going to create more problems.

Both my SP and bishop asked me if I had any questions for them. Both of them got the same answer, no. Both of them have left me alone. They don't want to answer questions, they want to convince you than you are making a serious mistake.

After lots of emails running back and forth, I finally agreed to meet with the SP in his office.
He sat down behind his large protective desk. I wasn't interested in allowing him to place that barrier between us, so I sat at the side of the office, forcing him to come around to my side.
Our discussion was quite civilized for the most part. The only time he became visibly irritated was when I offered to help him resolve any personal doubts he might have.

Finding out her Phood authorities don't have any more answers than the dog lying on our back porch helped my TBM wife to realize that it wasn't just me digging up sh!t on the Morg.
She went from TBM to ExMo in about 60 seconds after realizing that Joseph's Myth had sex with other men's wives, then threatened Emma with divine destruction if she didn't agree to allow him to continue with his philandering ways.
That pissed her off.
Now whenever anybody, like her Nazi TBM Mother tries to bear her testies to her, she just responds by saying, "Yeah, I know, but Joseph's Myth had sex with other men's wives."
First time I heard her tell her Mom that I almost fell out of my chair laughing so hard. haha
I asked her after she got off the phone what her Mom had to say in response and she said, "Nothing. None of them have any answers."
She's right. They don't. Their only choice is to lie their asses off about it and excuse the reprehensible actions of the pedophiles, adulterers, conmen they worship and build monuments to. No different from the Fundamentalist Mormons who erect 30' tall statues of their pedophile "Profit", who is Joseph's Myth reincarnated.
If your wife does go talk to the bishop/SP, tell her to ask them one question, "How do you reconcile the fact that both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young married the wives of other men, with the Law of the Priesthood, still contained in D&C 132:61 and still considered the word of God.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2012 01:19PM by josephsmyth.

besides... for most of the factually-oriented questions, There are NO factual answers. Replies - responses MAYBE, but they'll head for the 'It's a matter of Faith' "answer" reply-response sooner than you can...


well, you get the idea.

Facts only confuse Mormon leaders. Mormon 'thinkers' .... at least as far as TBMs.... went extinct a long time ago.

So, if you've gotten this far.....

I'll tell you that after 59 years of life bic, this bishop and sp not only don't have answers, they are NOT your friend.

They are there to support and defend a church. NOT you. I don't care how much they smile, and pretend. The church is their life. They aren't about to let someone like you destroy that for them, or your wife.

They have no problem breaking up your marriage. Children involved? Too bad for you.

Talking to the bishop is like going to war and giving the opposing general your war plan. I hope you don't find this out the hard way.

So True. EVERYTHING is expendable to them in order protect the "Good Name" of the church. They won't even flinch at throwing you under the bus.

Don't go to a bishop/stake pres about questions. They are manipulative, brainwashed, and when it comes to intelligent answers, they are religion's version of the Pointy-Haired Boss.

President [XXXXXX], I recently have faced a challenge that has caused me to believe that the Book of Mormon might be fiction. The reason why I'm here is to inquire as to whether or not the Brethren have passed down to you as a Stake President any specific official guidance and information to sincerely help resolve Book of Mormon historicity concerns. If so or if they provide more official information in the future then I'd like to know and keep an open mind and heart to whatever comes through official channels.

Something similar is what I told my SP in January 2001 and since then the church has taken in probably tens of billions of dollars in revenue + billions of hours of people time in doing things for the Church. IMO they have no right to do this to people if they're purposely being deceitful as they obviously are continuing to do so. Though it might be debatable whether the Book of Mormon is true or not, it definitely isn't debatable whether or not the church is being completely honest in their dealings with their fellow men. IMO the church's TR should be pulled ;)

When I was a Bishop and approached by someone with doubts and questions, I always said (every Bishop says this), Have you prayed about this? Are you keeping the commandments? Is everything right with your life?

You have to remember that a Bishop assumes that everything about the church is true and that you are wrong.

The other thing is that information about why the church is false will be considered anti-mormon by the Bishop and influenced by Satan. In addition, most Bishops (if not all) have no idea of the "true" history of the church--they do not want to know and consider it anti-mormon false doctrine.

So, why discuss your doubts with a Bishop? It never works and only leads to more frustration



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2012 12:41PM by sam.

My bishop told me to read Rough Stone Rolling. His reasoning basically goes that since Richard Bushman knows about all the bad stuff Joseph Smith did and he is really smart and has a PhD from Harvard then the rest of us must not be crazy for continuing to believe in and attend the Mormon church. He also already knew I was committing sins because I had previously confessed to him so he told me those sins were reducing my spiritual power as I was making these important decisions.