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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 01:08PM

How can the LDS church allow its members to be practicing Masons? Are they not breaking their LDS temple covenants when they perform the same handshakes and signs with gentiles outside the LDS temple?

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 01:12PM

In addition, isn't joining the Masons kind of like being a part of a "secret combination" warned of in the BoM?

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Posted by: justsayin ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 03:25PM

Going through Mormon temples, with the Masonic handshakes ond all, is kind of like being a part of a "secret combination" warned of in the BoM? Kind of like a contradiction inside a contradiction.

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Posted by: What is Wanted ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 01:18PM

The real question is how come Mormons stopped being Freemasons?

Freemasonary was a very important part of the church membership in Nauvoo and there were thousands of LDS freemasons at that time.

Without Freemasonary Mormonism would look very different today.

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Posted by: wittyname ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 02:04PM

I didn't know members were allowed to be Masons.

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Posted by: ghost buster ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 02:40PM

I don't know how true this is but I've read somewhere that the Utah masons wouldn't allow mormons to join until recently. I don't think there's ever been a restriction from the church though.

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Posted by: wittyname ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 02:47PM

I know there are a variety of Rites within the Masons, like Scotish rite, etc. I can't remember the other names. Some rights are exclusively "believe in christian god" and some are "god, any god, jews, muslims, pagan, whatever, as long as you believe in a god" so maybe now there is a mormon-leaning rite? Who knows.

I don't see how someone could be a mason and not put 2+2 together and get 4 (where 4 represents the origins of the temple ceremony and the masonic symbols on the garments), though considering how brainwashed many mormons are, they probably join up at the masonic lodge and put 2+2 together and get sandwich (where sandwich represents some false "truth" loop where they get reinforcement that the temple stuff and masonic symbols in the cult AND the mason similarities is just further proof that the church is true).

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Posted by: mindlight ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 02:53PM

I think I would like to of been a Mason instead of Mormon.


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Posted by: pathdocmd ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 03:58PM

There is variation in masonic rites depending upon location, lodge and period of time. My friend, who is a mason and a closet fundamentalist within mainstream Mormonism, researched what the masonic rites were at JS's time in and around Nauvoo. The temple endowment most closely resembles the masonic rites of that time and place. If it were possible to die from lack of surprise, I know many of you would be dying right now.

I asked him why this didn't shake his testimony of the divine origin of the endowment, and he believes this was God's way of revealing the endowment to JS. I just thought, wow, really?

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Posted by: twojedis ( )
Date: October 28, 2012 12:40AM

That's what I thought briefly, too, when studying with sithlord to bring him back to the church. That all stopped when I discovered how much this "restored" endowment has been changed.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 28, 2017 10:50AM

I've had people say that too.

My favorite is that Masons picked up the magic handshakes and all back from the days when first temples were built. Then they became corrupted over the years. So JS comes along and is able to restore the correct ones! Just like the way we was able to restore the true church! See, it all makes perfect sense (eye roll).

Somehow this is more plausible than JS ripped off club rules and then started his own club? Go figure.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 04:22PM

How do they become masons? Probably by filling out applications and going through a vetting process. How do they keep good standing within Mormonism? Just like everybody else, they lie and omit during temple interviews and they compartmentalize and rationalize the two groups in their own mind. I don't think anyone within the organization thinks it is a big deal.

They probably rationalize that the temple handshake and the Masonic handshake are different because of the different contexts.

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Posted by: John_Lyle ( )
Date: October 28, 2012 01:34PM

I had an acquaintance who was a REALLY enthusiastic mason.

He tried to recruit me. According to him, you had to have a mason in your family line before you could join, (my maternal grandfather as a mason).

This guy was Mr. Macho. It used to crack me up when they published pictures in the local paper with him standing with his fellow masons wearing aprons...

I had a girlfriend who's daughter wanted to join Eastern Star (sort of like female masons), but backed off when told that attendance at ES events, meetings, had to take precedence over everything else. Sound familiar? They didn't join...

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Posted by: pathfinder ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 04:26PM

It may seem surprising that Joseph Smith would incorporate so much Masonry into the endowment ceremony in the very weeks when all his leading men were being inducted into the Masonic lodge. Joseph Smith Sr., Joseph Smith Jr., Hyrum Smith, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Newel K. Whitney, John C. Bennett, John Taylor, Sidney Rigdon, and other Mormons were Masons. Shortly after their temple endowment ceremonies, Joseph Smith Jr. and other Mormons were expelled from the Masonic order for violating their oaths. It was May 4, 1842 that Joseph Smith introduced the Masonic Ceremony as the Mormon Temple Ceremony and declared that it was "received as a revelation from God." (History of the Church, vol. 5, pp. 1-2)

Joseph Smith became a Mason on March 15, 1842 and rose to the sublime degree the following day. This initiation took place in his upper business office or Masonic lodge room (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 550-551). Only a few weeks after Joseph's initiation into Masonry, he taught the other LDS Church leaders in the same Masonic lodge room. Joseph's interest in Masonry became so infectious that many Mormon elders

The Masonic ceremony originated around 1790 when the Masons first conceived it for use in their secret society.

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Posted by: twojedis ( )
Date: October 28, 2012 12:49AM

You know, this just made me wonder, if this was truly God's way to restore the endowment, then why no revelation about it? Something to the effect of:

"Behold, my servant Joseph, thou art commanded to go forth without delay and join the local order of Free Masonry. This thou shalt do, in order to further the purpose of the sacred temple ordinances.

Yea, I shall reveal unto thee the erroneous ways of the Masonic rites, and restore the true order of the temple endowment. Go forth in boldness of manner, that my saints may be richly blessed.

Thus sayeth the Lord thy God, Amen"

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Posted by: delt1995 ( )
Date: October 27, 2012 06:46PM

I was in a college fraternity. Several of the mormon temple rituals match both freemasonry and my fraternity. Frats aer stepping stones to freemasonry membership... One of the founders of my fraternity was a freemason.

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Posted by: John_Lyle ( )
Date: October 28, 2012 01:38PM

Note where it says the masons banned lds from belonging to any masonic lodge for 60 years?

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Posted by: AcutePriapism ( )
Date: October 28, 2017 01:17AM

The temple ceremony says that you can never reveal the name WITH the accompanying sign.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 28, 2017 02:19AM

as we understand, a 'revelation' wouldn't be needed UNLESS it was from HF in the first place!

If it was a 'mistake' / 'error', or 'just a policy', (of earthly origin) a revelation wouldn't be necessary!

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Posted by: Apologies ( )
Date: October 28, 2017 09:47AM

See the apologetics:

Especially, the "explanation" at the bottom of page 5, for the apologetics of the apologetics.

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Posted by: Lachesis ( )
Date: October 28, 2017 10:35AM

They are trying really hard to weed as much masonry as they can out of the ceremony. But they can't do it too fast or too much at a time or the little froggies in the boiling pot would jump. They have to keep warming that pot up a little bit at a time.

None of it really matters as far as ritual. What matters is keeping it as something that is not so horribly offensive that the minions will say "I don't have any weddings to go to this year so I don't have to pay my dues this year."

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Posted by: desertman ( )
Date: October 28, 2017 03:12PM


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Posted by: namarod ( )
Date: November 01, 2017 11:18AM

I'm a Master Mason and a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason. I've been inactive and nonpracticing for over a year now. I joined Freemasonry shortly after my faith crisis. The majority of my Provo, Utah Lodge are LDS. Some were BYU students. One TBM said his Bishop said it was OK to join as long as he didn't put Freemasonry above his Church membership. Another's Bishop told him not to join because Freemasonry's rituals are an apostate version of the Endowment. Many never told their Bishops.

So many of the LDS members of my Lodge had a lot of cog-dis going on in trying to reconcile the many similarities of Masonic rituals and the LDS Endowment. One very TBM BYU student said that the original Masonic rituals came from Adam and were passed down from Dispensation to Dispensation. The common reasoning I heard from TBM's in my Lodge was that Joseph Smith was very inspired and influenced when he received his Masonic Degrees. They said JS incorporated much of the Masonic rituals into the Endowment Ceremony because God inspired him to do so. I heard many other weird and lame arguments from TBM Masons. I would just listen and not say anything, but I had a very hard time not to roll my eyes.

When I received my Masonic Degrees, I was astounded and shocked at the many similarities and outright copying Joseph Smith did. The Endowment has so many traits of the Masonic ritual (secret handshakes, secret passwords, three taps of the mallet, a Holy Bible on an altar, the layout of the Lodge Room, and the secrecy that Masons are under to not reveal parts of the ceremony). The Original Endowment Ceremony (Nauvoo Era) has so many more Masonic similarities. Through the years, the morg has slowly removed many of the Masonic elements of the Endowment. But still, so many similarities remain.

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Posted by: namarod ( )
Date: November 01, 2017 01:28PM

I meant to say on my prior post that, "I've been an inactive and non-practicing Freemason for over a year now." I've been out of Mormonism over 9 1/2 years. I resigned my membership 2 1/2 years ago.

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Posted by: Myron Donnerbalken ( )
Date: November 01, 2017 04:16PM

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Posted by: wow ( )
Date: November 02, 2017 01:46AM

When Joe wrote the Book Of Mormon in 1829 secret societies were very much looked down on because of the Captain Morgan kidnapping and murder of 1826.
While Joe senior was serving one of his many jail sentences for public drukendness he shared a cell with one Captain Morgan's killers.
In 1836 Joe took the widow of Captain Morgan as a plural wife, so the Smith's were very aware of the story and Freemasonry.
During these years both Joe Sr. and Hyrum joined the Masons.
By the time Joe the conman was living in Nauvoo , the hatred of the Masons had died down and he joined the same lodge as Hyrum.
Joe then used the endowment he stole from the lodge to swear people to secrecy regarding his practice of the "principle" of plural marriage.
Also during the early Salt lake days the Masonic temple in Salt lake was open before the Mormon one.

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