Sorry as I spew here. I am a Christian who has grown up around many Mormons, my bff and others very close to me. I have investigated the church and watched their lives, as well as attended numerous events at their church. I get it, I really do. The community, the belonging etc.

What drives me up the wall is how unBiblical the whole thing is. No grace, no mercy. All based on works: how good can you be to be good enough. And Jesus taught the opposite: there is nothing we can do, good or bad, to make him love us more or less.

Secondly. Mormons can NEVER admit that they are wrong or blew it. If one of my LDS friends or a leader in the church could just say "hey joseph smith was a great guy and leader, but surely had some issues. We aren't proud of that part, but look at how god used him despite his shortcomings." I could respect that. Instead, they look at you like you are crazy. "what issues? Where did you get your information?" AHHHHHHHHHH it makes ms crazy.

One of my closest friends got a girl pregnant. He tried to run from it but his conscience got the best of him and he asked back into her life to help raise the child. So BYU kicks him out of school and excommunicates him. For doing the right thing and owning up to his mistake. So he diligently works for a year to get back in the good standing. Drives me loony


So in closing, my question to you dear folks is what was the turning point of enlightenment? Was there a moment or just a growing realization? Im thankful for your stories and my heart breaks at the pain you have suffered. I wouldn't like god either if the one I was taught about looked like the one you were shown.

Over 600 stories, it's amazing

Why we left - This is a growing collection of personal accounts of leaving Mormonism
http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm

Welcome!

Many of us no longer believe in god, that is true. But not because of the "mormon god." It's because after we shined an investigative light on mormonism, we focused that same light of inquiry, evidence and yes, science on Christianity and found it lacking credibility as well. The Bible - is a collection of humanity's myths, not fact. Many of us believe that Christianity is nothing more than a cult. So please, let's not give all the credit to mormonism.

I've told this story on the board about a million times so old timers can skip my post. But I was researching a lesson to teach little kids on Mother's Day Sunday and googled "Mormon Mother's Day Quotes". It led me to another site for exmormons which actually had posted on the top of the story page something like "If you came to this site through a search engine, this isn't a pro-Mormon site" but the quote about Mormon moms was so funny I thought I'd be "naughty" and look around the site a bit. You already know how Mormons think it's bad to hear anything against their religion. An hour later, I'd read all about Joseph Smith's First Vision and realized I'd been lied to all my life ... it didn't happen at ALL the way the church had always taught me. I have a journalism degree and had been a history major for a couple of years and I knew how to research but it never occurred to me to apply my professional standards to my religion. Once I did "Shazam!" It was easy enough to see that objective sources proved that there was lying going on. After that, I spent the next 6 months or so reading everything I could about Mormonism - sometimes staying up until 3:00 a.m. The kids said I liked my laptop better than them but I HAD to do my research. When I was sure I was right and Mormons were wrong, I was done. I mean, I'm still stuck with Mormons because my husband still believes despite hearing my evidences and because so many of my friends and family are Mormon. But I am done.

And, one thing I kept coming across during my obsessive studying is how very far off the bible the Mormon teachings were. My Mormon mom really doesn't understand how other Christian religions claim Mormons worship a different Christ but they really do see things very differently than the more biblically based religions. I don't think I ever truly believed in the Mormon God - being raised Episcopalian until my early teens - I tended to view God as much more loving and forgiving than your average Mormon. I couldn't live in the sort of fear of failure I see many of my Mormon women friends living in. Fear they aren't good enough, fear they will lose their kids forever, fear their husbands will leave and they won't have the priesthood in the home, fear they aren't doing their callings well enough and God will be mad... It never ends. I remember a cute, young (mid-20s) girl in my ward with two small kids getting up in Sacrament meeting and, crying, talked about how afraid she was that she wouldn't do everything right and she'd let her family down and her kids would leave the church. It was horrible. I still think she's a bit scary, even while I feel sorry for her. Feeling God was more loving and would credit my sincere attempts to follow him made leaving Mormonism easier because there was more trust and less fear.

The very first reason which made me leave the Church was because of that feeling of never being good enough, no matter how hard I worked at it. And they totally guilted you about it as well. Jesus felt the consequences of every sin you ever committed and every time you commit even the smallest sin, you might as well have helped to drive those nails in.

How's that for a guilt trip?

The turning point for enlightenment was knowledge. I began studying sources which I'd always been told I shouldn't study. I discovered that what was out there wasn't lies, but the truth. Then I knew why they didn't want us studying any sources outside of the Church.

The problem is that your friends must want to know the truth, no matter where that truth leads. If you ever try to force the truth on them, they will call it all lies.

It takes courage to want to know the truth. They have to want truth more than the comforting lies they've been taught.

Be careful. The majority of folks that you will find on this board are the best--supportive, caring and helpful. When all is said and done, here is a good and safe place, and about the people, well, there are none better. And nothing more or better can be said.

But a great many are anti-religion, so tread lightly, Christian, and go with God.

The atheists at this site are everywhere. Mostly not a menace, just still brainwashed by the sad mormon indoctrination.

Most of the atheists here compare apples (mormonism) to oranges (Christianity).

That JS and mormonism is a patent and so-so-so obvious fraud does not make Jesus and Christianity so. Consider: What "investigation of mormonism is needed before the whole thing collapses? I'd say 30 minutes on the internet ought to do it.

By the same token, the atheists cannot say that they "know" Jesus was not the son of GOD; it is in the final analysis a matter of faith.

By any standard of evidence - preponderance, clear and convincing, beyond a reasonable doubt - one can prove Mormonism a fraud. ANYONE can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that mormonism is nothing but a ripoff and a con; ie, a huge fraud. Like I once said, my dog knows mormonism is a con. And if my dog had a dog that dog would know it is a con too.

Mormonism and faith in Jesus are two completely different things.

PS. It was very Xtian of you.

Hehehehehe.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2011 11:41PM by sexismyreligion.

Well said Badger!!!

Enjoyed your commentary Devin 21. Like you I deal with a loved one who is now a Mormon....my daughter. she had a civil marriage and converted three yrs. late. She used to be Christian (yeah, I know some think Mormons are Christian). I DON'T. Anyhow, I will never get how one who grew up accepting grace and mercy and who used to talk to God without a middle man, now wishes to worship totally differently.

Now my daughter wishes to be bossed around regarding family money (they went through one bankrupcy already), wishes to participate in cult rituals in a temple and also be given jobs that I know she must be doing to keep her "other" family happy. It is very distressing, but I am confident one day she will have had enough. I really would be hurt if I could not see my grandson marry because he married a molly mormon in the temple.

I am a female. I grew up in a Christian home. My dad was a pastor. My parents were wonderful loving parents, and I grew up free to think. I was led into Mormonism because I joined a very legalistic church later in life with hateful people that made me feel like crap, and the missionaries were so nice to me and I got love bombed. After 9 years I finally realized the God of Mormonism isn't very nice in comparision to the God of Christianity and I didn't like men being the boss of me and having such authority that my entrance to the celestials were dependent upon them. Why on earth would I put men in between me and God when I had full access to God before? The final nail in the coffin was my husband telling me that praying to Jesus was wrong. After that I knew the church was a lie and that it wasn't Jesus' church if I couldn't even speak to him anymore. They took my original faith and polluted it and changed it. They denied me the knowledge I needed up front to make a more informative decision. No! Mormonism is nowhere near Christian by my estimation. In fact they lead you away from Jesus not to him. They put themselves in between and eventually you miss the relationship you once had with him when you were a Christian. Also, I don't believe most people on this board are atheist if on line polls are any indicator. Its a free country and I believe in God.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2011 12:02PM by suckafoo.

You said, "And Jesus taught the opposite: there is nothing we can do, good or bad, to make him love us more or less."

This is not true. According to the Bible if you do NOT accept Jesus you get death. So there IS something you have to do. You must take the action of accepting Jesus.

So, because I don't accept Jesus as any kind of lord or savior, Jesus is supposedly going to snuff me out. Just feel the love. I think you are seeing the grace and mercy through rose colored glasses because it extends only to believers in Jesus.

You said, "Secondly. Mormons can NEVER admit that they are wrong or blew it."

I'd say the same about Christians. Talk about "issues" among prophets---read the Bible.

You ask what was the turning point of enlightenment? Reading the Bible using the same standards you use to judge Mormonism.

The god of the Old Testament is crazy, cruel, jealous and bizarre. Jesus, the avatar of that same God, isn't anything I think is worth worshiping any more than I would worship Zeus.

By the way, most atheists were not Mormon. Most simply studied religion (most are from mainstream Christian homes) in general and found it lacking in evidence.

You sound as sure as any Mormon about your brand of Christianity being the "right" one. Believe me, you don't have any more evidence than they do. IMO, we must always be willing to change our minds as evidence presents itself.

It isn't the same drawer.

Dagny, other churches have apologized for things in the past such as anti Semitism, the Crusades, Galileo, etc. I doubt you think much of their apologies, but they are a matter of record and they happened. Where are the Mormon apologies? GBH had a chance to apologize for the MMM and didn't. Instead of apologizing for banning blacks from the priesthood, they said God had changed his mind. Sorry, but you are wrong. It is not the same thing.The OP has a point



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2011 07:34PM by bona dea.

Not giving Hinckley & other LDS a pass on MMM, but it's surprizing how few people even know about MMM.

Anti Semitism, the Crusades, Galileo, but they still get a pass on stuff like "God caused 9/11". I saw that sign at the Rose Parade just the other day, and nobody beat the crap outta the guy!!! Personally, I think they shoot themselves in the foot better than I EVER could, LOL!

Maybe people believe that tolerating/ignoring the crazies is better than "beating the crap out of them."

Deleted--posted in the wrong spot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 12:17PM by readthissomewhere.

Ack! Did it again! Someone take my computer away--I'm cut off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 12:19PM by readthissomewhere.

Not that I'm going to hold my breath.

I thought they "pardoned" him. LOL Pardoned him for being right?

I don't see any apologies in the Bible for Jesus snuffing out people who don't accept him.

I don't see the OT god apologizing for his psychopathic actions.

The Catholics have apologized for a lot of stuff (hundreds of years too late to help the ones most damaged though). Good for them. However, I have to wonder if science had not forced them, if they would have changed or apologized at all. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Give the Mormons a few hundred years and I'm guessing they will apologize for their dumb doctrine long after the fact just like other older religion have done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2011 07:49PM by dagny.

Many religions believe those things are myths or metaphorical.You don't apologize for myth. I don't see the Greeks apologizing for the excesses in the Iliad either. BTW, neither you or I know the motives for apologies, but science didn't have much to do with any of the things I mentioned except for the Galilea case. Regardless of motives, they apologized and the Morg has never done so. That was the point I was making as was the OP.

They will probably officially apologize for MMM and racist teachings long after everyone who was associated with it is long gone. It's what the Catholics did over and over.

I don't think we should judge the Mormons unless we are looking at the same timetable we allow Catholics (so of course Mormons have not apologized yet- Catholics would have not have done so either this soon).

And I agree, myth shouldn't need apologies, except there is one problem. At the time, people don't typically consider the teachings myth. "That's just myth" is what people conclude once something is disproved in many cases.

If people considered the Bible as the Iliad (like I do) you would have a point. However the Iliad is not a sacred writ now so I don't see that it is in the same category. Holy writs have protection that other literature does not enjoy.

I think we are derailing the thread. Done with this topic. We've both made our points.

... an apology that comes 400 years after the offender screws-up the life of one or the lives of many doesn't seem all that sincere.

Seems more like a grudging admission designed to save face.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 12:48PM by Timothy.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate hearing from the various perspectives.

I agree with the thought that my friends have to be willing to want to change in order to hear/read/discuss any of the literature that points out inconsistencies in Mormonism.

It bugs me so bad that they disqualify anything that contradicts doctrinal Mormonism. My pastors and friends in the church welcome challenging texts and discussions.

Lastly dagney, while I can find many texts and historians contradicting JS and many of his claims, I've never found anything that suggests that anyone contradicted Jesus. Whether he was a lunatic, a liar or truly God in the flesh, he didn't waver in his doctrine or his actions.

Whether or not you believe what he claimed, that's up to you. But there is no controversy that he walked around and what he claimed.

The example of the Catholics doesn't hold water to me. It's another man made religion. If you look at who Jesus used in the bible they didn't hide their mistakes or character flaws. Paul's persecution of Christians didn't "disappear" when he became a follower of Christ. Peter still made mistakes and those aren't ommitted from the bible. Prostitutes, tax men, etc no ones life was magically erased. We saw them warts and all and yet god used them. The fact that we screw up that example in our man made religions is not reflective of Jesus.

Gods love for you never changes. Whether you love him back doesnt matter. Whether you believe in him or not doesnt matter. He loves you the same no matter what. Wish I could love like that.

..." I've never found anything that suggests that anyone contradicted Jesus. Whether he was a lunatic, a liar or truly God in the flesh, he didn't waver in his doctrine or his actions."

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

"Whether or not you believe what he claimed, that's up to you. But there is no controversy that he walked around and what he claimed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity

>Lastly dagney, while I can find many texts and historians contradicting JS and many of his claims, I've never found anything that suggests that anyone contradicted Jesus.

How hard have you looked? Texts that deconstruct Christianity are more numerous than anything written about Mormonism.

>Whether he was a lunatic, a liar or truly God in the flesh, he didn't waver in his doctrine or his actions.

Not true. From the very earliest Christians, interpretation about Jesus and his actions varied greatly. Your description of Jesus comes from the result of various people picking what they wanted to comprise the bible. The teachings about Jesus, for example, are quite different in Gnostic teachings (the Gospel of Thomas and Mary describe a different kind of early Christianity entirely). John is really the only one who linked Jesus to being human and we can explain why (see Karen Armstrong's History of God).

>Whether or not you believe what he claimed, that's up to you. But there is no controversy that he walked around and what he claimed.

There is controversy actually, but what little proof we have of a possible seed character in no way justifies the supernatural claims made in Christian mythology.

>The example of the Catholics doesn't hold water to me. It's another man made religion. If you look at who Jesus used in the bible they didn't hide their mistakes or character flaws.

But the Catholics are the ones who PICKED what is in the Bible which is what you seem to accept without question.

>Gods love for you never changes. Whether you love him back doesnt matter.

If there is one god, and Christians claim the Bible describes that god, then god's love changes drastically from the Old Testament to the New Testament. For example He drowned everyone that he supposedly claimed to love.

>Whether you believe in him or not doesnt matter. He loves you the same no matter what. Wish I could love like that.

Not true. In John it says that those who do not believe will perish. He will not grant eternal life to those who do not believe. You sound nicer, actually!

IMO, you have decided you know what Jesus was like when in reality he didn't write a thing. Your version is hearsay, and based on what you have been taught. You claim to know quite a bit about the mind of god and I'm guessing he has never told you. I'm just saying Mormons are allowed to invent whatever they want to think about Jesus too.

>But the Catholics are the ones who PICKED what is in the Bible which is what you seem to accept without question.

Small point but the contents of the Holey Babble aren't agreeed on, hence the whole concept of Biblical Apocrapha,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha

A quick overview of the differences between the Jewish, Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant contents,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible

Of course it's more complicated than that. For example, that list only includes the 'Eastern Orthodox', but there are other 'Orthodox Churches' -- in the sense that they claim to have unbroken history back to very early days of the cult and they use the word 'Orthodox' in their name. Which version of the Coptic Orthodox Church's Bible are we to choose?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_bible

"So in closing, my question to you dear folks is what was the turning point of enlightenment? Was there a moment or just a growing realization? Im thankful for your stories and my heart breaks at the pain you have suffered. I wouldn't like god either if the one I was taught about looked like the one you were shown."

Because you asked so kindly I'll tell you that you are right about the last part of your post. Mormons aren't interested in your god. Basicly it's the same one you both read about in the Bible. Most Mormons can read.

So, what can you do? Most Mormons think gentiles are not good people. You can surprise them by being a good person. You quote one part of the Bible that says you aren't saved by good works. Mormons believe "by their fruit you shall know" who the true believers are. Mormons think Christians are bad people because you believe you can get away with anything and still go to heaven. This makes no sense to a Mormon.

I had several Christian friends growing up, but they didn't make me leave Mormonism. There's probably not much you can do except be their friend. They have been warned not to look at anything that is not promoting faith in Mormonism. However, you can try. Do a search on http://utlm.org/. The Tanners are Exmormons, and have done some fantastic historical research. Many of us have not come to the same conclusion by becoming Christians, but if a Mormon is willing to question their church, they might be interested.

Happy New Year!

There is nothing spiritual about Mormonism; especially, the modern correlated, corporate church.

This is the drill folks: Pay dues to enjoy full membership privileges and do whatever the leaders tell you to do. In short you pay to be a slave. It's that simple. The doctrine is just filler. It could be a story about a spaghetti monster from the sky or UFO's. It doesn't matter. It's all about praying, paying, and obeying or you will be shunned. It's about being accepted by the group and when the group controls the community, you get the picture.

Devin, I am right there with you--also a Christian, also a nevermo, but greatly concerned about friends and family who are suffering in various ways under the yoke of the Mo church (even if they can't see the real source of their distress).

I've been lurking here for a very long time, but only recently started posting, and I rarely do because I don't have direct knowledge of many of the topics under discussion and it would be presumptuous of me to offer any opinion. But I do visit here more-or-less daily and have a pretty good idea of what goes on and some of the dominant personalities. Welcome to the board!

Wanted to caution you, as others have, that there are a number of vocal and aggressive athiests on this board who diligently post their dissenting views during discussions which involve faith/religion/worship/etc in any kind of positive light. Different strokes for different folks, diversity of opinion is a good thing, and all that, but just wanted you to know that if you post here regularly and say positive things about faith, be prepared for disagreement. Not a reason to avoid posting if you have something to add--just don't be surprised or take it personally, is all.

Have a blessed day : )