Long time lurker, first time poster.
*waves hello*

Born and raised in SLC but baptized as a convert when I was 16. That was 28 years ago. I was a missionary, married in the temple. I've been full of doubt for a long time. My wife is very supportive. About 6 months ago my wife told me she loves and supports me even if I don't go to church. With great relief I stopped attending about 3 months ago. In my ward I have spoken to exactly 1 person (the bishop) about why I don't believe. Primarially it is about the so-called "Plan of Salvation" reaching essentially nobody, but like many others I have issues with history, politics, finances, etc... I also have clinical depression and anxiety and one of my triggers has been attending church.
Anywho...

Last night I went to a high school play that my son was participating in at Davis high school. It's a big production and well done and well attended. I ran into a member of the ward who I had always been very friendly with. I expected things might be awkward but I did not at all expect the shunning I received. I got no handshake, no friendly hello, nothing. Just a glance and a nod. I expected that I would probably run into some of this but did not ever, ever, ever, expect it to be this "fellow elder".

My reaction was awful. I felt like sh*t. (Can I post that word?) I thought "What am I doing?" "Why am I not going along for the sake of my family?" "What is wrong with me?" "What kind of rumors are going around?" "Did the bishop break trust?" I was up very late feeling despondent and confused. I really feel alone. I thought I would be so confident about facing "deluded" church members. Now suddenly, though I still feel I am doing the right thing, I just... arrrgh!

I guess I felt really lonely. I thought he was my friend. I guess I was wrong.

Mormons live in a bubble, they are afraid to ask you what's going on.

They can't handle the truth, sooooo..........

They make assumptions,
1. lazy
2. sinful
3. apostate because of items 1 and 2

Talking to you won't allow them the abiltiy to villify you.

Stay strong, it's not you... and you're only human and it's natural to fell the effects of this practice.

Reach out to them if you want and develope a relationship not based around the Church.

When I stopped attending back in 2005 I sensed some thinly veiled hostility from some of the members. These are drones who unquestioningly give thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of free labor a year to the cult.....and deep down I think they resent it. When they see someone throw off the burden of tithing, talks, lessons, etc, etc, etc, it makes them angry. They resent their own burden and somehow take comfort that they are not alone it carrying it.

I expected to be treated differently but was still a little surprised by it at first. However, believe me, their fake friendship isn't worth 10% of my income or my relaxing Sunday mornings!!!

Everybody thinks it won't happen to them.

Mormonism is an exclusionist culture, and they shut out all who are not them. They are not true friends with anyone. They are only TBM friends.

I'm sorry you didn't realize that, and had it forced on you in what should have been a very happy moment.

Thankfully, I've still been able to stay friends with some of my TBM friends. They have treated me just the same as they always have. But I've come to discover that they are an anomaly in the Mormon religion and culture.

I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Yes, it appears that your bishop spilled the beans and word is starting to get around.

You might try being a bit more aggressive -- go up to the person in question and insist on interaction. I don't know if that will work or not, but it might be worth a try.

I say, accept the glance, and the nod.
Not everyone is going to greet you, gab , shake hands, etc.

If you're close enough INITIATE the greeting. This almost always works.
I find that is the best way to show you recognize them as an acquaintance or friend and gives them an opportunity to reciprocate.

I don't allow anyone to ignore or shun me. Not going to happen. People do not get to treat me that way!

Do the same and you'll find you keep many wonderful people as friends regardless of their religious beliefs!

Sorry you were treated so shabbily.

It always hurts when you realize your friendship was based nothing more on the fact you attend the same ward. It doesn't matter how genuine it felt.

There are a lot of people here and we have your back and understand. Yes, IT SUCKS. And over and above everything else it is RUDE. Even some in my own family acted like I grew a fifth eye and a second head.

And yes, you can say shit. Just please not in the subline :)

Thank god or jesus or allah or zeus or whoever you want that you have a supportive wife. TBM spouses are not well known for being supportive to their questioning or doubting husbands/wives. They are programmed to think that something is wrong with you. Just like that guy who you thought was your friend. You will quickly learn who your true friends and family are. It will be painful at times but in my opinion, it's better than living a lie.

I agree. Kudos to your wife for supporting and loving you that way. In the world of TBM's, it's RARE!

It is good spiritual practice to confront active shunning with peaceful truth.

This does not come naturally because the level of shame and discomfort you feel is predictable considering you yourself still believe that you are "less than" because you have left--there is an involuntary jolt of shame. I still feel it occasionally when I encounter missionaries by accident out and about. Not all the time, but sometimes and I've been out for more than 20 years.

It helps for you to remember that they are acting "under orders." They know that they are asked in temple recommend interviews if they associate with apostates or even have sympathies with apostates (thought control). The reaction you got is the norm, not the exception. They're trying to be good people and maybe being forced to be rude and cruel might be something that will aggregate with other unChristlike behaviors to add to the weight of their shelf. Eventually it falls and they will join us as apostates.

Here are some examples of non-hostile responses to their reactions.

"Hey, George, I thought maybe you didn't recognize/see me. I've always considered you a true friend and didn't think my resignation would affect our friendship. Is that it or is Satan making me paranoid?"

Keeping it light and using humor that is appropriate to your personality is the best approach.

"Now that I'm under the control of Satan, he suggested I invite you and the wife over for a barbecue this Saturday. By the way, you can count on us to help you clean the building when it's your day. Or if somebody doesn't show up--that can be brutal. I have lots of free time now and Satan's jokes are getting old."

I know that's probably too corny for you, but you get the idea.

Best of luck and keep us posted on how things turn out. We are here for you.

Anagrammy

Hi starkravingmad! Sorry to hear you were treated like a disease instead of a human. Unfortunately, your story is not uncommon here. I would suggest that you go out and find some new friends outside of the Mormon bubble. TBMs simply cannot be counted on for friendship, or even civility towards "apostates" like us.

PS. Is your username in any way related to Boatmurdered?

and who didn't. You can't predict who will react poorly.

You might check out the thread about the person whose mission president responded so poorly. I think the thread was started yesterday or Friday.

If you want your "problems" known all over the stake, go ahead and tell a Mormon bishop.

Nothing fires up the old Mo gossip mill like confessing to disbelief or sexual transgressions lol.

Don't take it personally, Mormons are a judgemental and deluded bunch.

Mormon shunning is one of the major signs for Nevermos like me that 'something is rotten in the kingdom of Kolob' ;-).

As well as being extremely rude, it also shows how insecure they (quite rightly) are about their own beliefs.

You, however, are on the right track.

Best wishes from

Tom in Paris

Shunning shows they suspect what they believe is BS, and they're scared their fears may be real.

Although I'm sure this shunning incident was hurtful, try to take a step back and see it for what it really is--confirmation that you absolutely did the right thing by leaving the church. Think about it--it's an organization where the bishop breaks your confidence and those you thought were your friends are willing to act like they never knew you based on what the bishop tells them about you. Be glad you got out when you did. I'm a nevermo, but this reminds me of the months after I chose to get divorced from an abusive man. After I got divorced, every time he did or said something horrible, I took it as confirmation that I did the right thing by getting out.

You represent their own darkest fears that the church really is a sham and they fear you.
The LDS testimony really is a fragile thing when you stop to think about it. They have to keep getting up every month trying to convince each other its all true. The GA's devote so much of their time and energy trying to shore up the sagging testimonies of its members.
Its not you personally they are afraid of, its just that when they look at you they can see themselves. And it scares the 5hit out of them.

Welcome to the board! Glad you are here!

Shunning is very hard to deal with and I'm sorry you were treated that way. That's terrible. Sometimes they just don't know what to say. I have found its easier for me to make the first move (directly saying hi and whatnot) because sometimes they don't know what to say.

Remember, they have been taught all their lives that people leave the church because we sinned or were offended. He's probably thinking that he doesn't want to offend you even more. It's awkward for them too. Before I left the church, I was very socially awkward when it came to interacting with inactive members and exmos. All I knew was what the church taught us.

Obviously we know better than that now and recognize that we are still the same person (or even better than what we were).

The best way to represent yourself (and all exmos) is to be happy and cheerful. Let your friends know how HAPPY you are. Mormons do that all the time, why can't we? I'm not saying be fake or to lie, but I would make the extra effort around Mormons. They will be surprised that you are a happy, functional member of society. Then they may possibly see that the church is lying about the apostates.

Another thing that has helped me when I see a member that I haven't seen in a while is that I address the elephant in the room right away and clarify that I left for historical and doctrinal reasons, not that is as offended or wanted to sin. It's usually easy to fit it into the conversation naturally because all they ever do is talk about the church.

For those who do know I left, I try to lead the conversation away from church and more into the direction of school involvement, children, community events, etc.

but the person doing it to you. Coming from a virtual stranger who just happened to be in the same ward you were in and your reaction might have been quite moderate - but coming from a person you felt you were reasonably close to hurts a lot more. At least, that's how it's been for me.

I understand completely. The people who shunned me are those who were closest to me. People I'd known for 30 years or more. I was stunned. I never thought it was possible to lose my closest friends, but there it was, staring me in the face.

It was my never-Mo sister who helped me to understand that I still just felt like "Me." In fact, I actually felt like a much better version of myself. But from the point-of-view of my friends, I'd changed. I'd changed in a way that they didn't know what to do with. They didn't know how to deal with it. So they just didn't. They simply turned away from me.

I think also, a part of them is afraid of you. They're afraid that you suddenly have some magic power which will harm their testimonies. Religion brings out strange reactions in some people. One time, the sister missionaries came to visit me, when I was still TBM, and one of them said, "Hi!" to my Mom. Instead of just saying, "Hi," back, my Mom blurted out, "I don't want to be converted!" The poor girl was just like, "Um, okay. I was just saying, "Hi."" I was so embarrassed. But yeah, religion brings out some very strange reactions in people.

Anyway, my friends wanted the familiar Me back again and I couldn't give them that, because you can't unlearn what you've learned. You don't fit in anymore and that's a sobering realization. It's sad, but unfortunately it's just a part of the process. It does get better, as you become more comfortable in your own skin; possibly more so than you've ever been in your life.

My sister told me to give it time and she was right. One good friend did come back, but more than that, I'm very comfortable being Me now. I like myself so much better now and I wouldn't want to go back to the old Mormon Me. No way. This is a process where you most definitely discover who your real friends are and who the superficial ones are.

One thing I find so fascinating if you stay on the forum for a long time, is that you meet people who are where you were 3 or 4 years back. You recognize the stage that they're in and remember what it was like. But you can also reassure them that it does get better.

It's all about being comfortable with You. The more settled you become within yourself, the less situations like that will bother you. You'll probably roll your eyes and think, "Oh brother. Really, Dude?" You can't change them, but you'll gradually change over time.

It does get better.

I know exactly what you mean. I stopped attending about 6 months ago and was very surprised to be in situations where I felt/thought people were treating me different. I posted about it here and the responses were that it was shunning. I had read about it on this forum but I believed it was a Utah or morridor thing. Nope, it's a mormon thing, even in my ward where over 50% are converts and far away from SLC. I had not said anything about disbelief but I guess that was the rumour. Yes, it hurt, and yes I was surprised of how "offended" I felt by the behaviour and rumours. I have one close friend who has treated me almost the same but her husband is a different story, and the list goes on.

Everybody handles it differently. For me, I feel I have to prove I'm the same person. I call and talk to those that were kind to me when I was a member and I attend ward functions to say hi to some I only see at church. It's been an eye opener to see people's true colours.

Just this past weekend I was at a ward activity. One lady almost run me over three times in the hallway and did not look or say hi. After the third time I thought, forget it I'm not even trying with her. Later she was with her husband as I passed by and the husband smiled and we said hi. He made a positive comment about my youngest. Immediately she jumped into a conversation with a big smile in her face and complimenting my daughter too. I thought it was weird, there is no way she didn't see me the three times before because I even tried to say hi once.

You're not alone. Remember it IS them, not you.

Welcome!

Through our whole journey, I have kept this one thought in my head. Those who are my friends will be my friends. Those who are not will be exposed.

Try not to take this personally. I ran across an extremely toxic person some years ago. She was the wife of sithlord's coworker, and LDS. We spent a lot of time with them, attended events, helped each other with projects and developed a good friendship. I thought.

We had another couple that we were mutual friends with. We had planned to go out, all three couples. Plans changed, and through a series of misunderstandings, toxiclady drew the conclusion that I manipulated the situation, when in fact it was the other wife that changed the plans. Come to find out that toxiclady was also talking to new people who moved in at church and telling them I was mentally ill and to stay away from me. She really hated me, and had for a long time but was pleasant, always, to my face. Even to this day, she's never said anything unkind directly to me.

When she started to try to manipulate my marriage, I cut her off. She was sending her husband to tell my husband that I was controlling, cruel, and more. She became very dangerous, and I have not seen or spoken to her for over 7 years. It took me years to really get over what she had done, the things she said, and the accusations she leveled at me. I guess I hoped and believed they weren't true, but a bit of me inside worried that they were. I've concluded that she is the one with the problem, not me.

My point in telling this story is that it's not you, it's them. It's the cult mentality, the mindset and the belief that you are now on the wrong path. Some in our ward have felt personally betrayed. That's not our fault or our problem. Nor is it true. Sithlord has also developed other interests, even before we left the church. He's into certain martial arts and has friends from that world he can hang with.

Hold on to your sweet wife, and discover who your true friends are, then make some new friends. It's not you, it's them.

the same happened to me, it was a band event in a plush auditorium with velvet seats in the foyer or atrium. I was stunned that another band parent would stare at me then turn away- when I was standing with my husband (a particularly nice and pleasant looking guy, who especially isn't used to that.)

years later it dawned on me- that person was only being 'friendly
or showing any recognition at all- because of the garment line and seeing me at their church. They neither knew me nor loved me individually. If I had known them all my life, had gone to elementary and high school with them, camped with them, that would be different. The 'cult' culture of mormon wards meant that I shallowly dipped through 15 wards moving and was treated with an artificial friendly response- never knowing anybody personally the faces were just an expanse of humanity.

My real friends, stuck with me. Any person that acts like that parent did at my band child's event, as at your son's performance, is no friend they are part of the shallow expanse of faces performaning a fellowship role, its a bit part, not the main actor in any performance or life.

I am so sorry this is happening to you now.

Don't blame the members for the shunning so much. Blame the institution. Literally thousands of hours of "in the world but not of the world" thinking has been pounded into their heads.
Now that you’re "of the world" they must protect themselves so as not to be contaminated by the wily ways that STAN uses to get individuals to think and act for themselves.

Shunning by what were thought to be longtime friends rings the bell loudly. Members don't think for a second that shunning is practiced by members until it is experienced personally.

I would not have assumed he was shunning me. And if I KNEW he was shunning me I would have gone out of my way to be friendly to him and laugh and smile, regardless of his reaction to me.

Don't let their bad behavoir tell you how to act. Be the example they aren't.

ah ha something to do I wish I had thought about that while I still recognized them/ But hes staying in that community so thats a good idea

If you ever had the experience of being in a dead end job and felt that desperate, low toned, gnawing panic as someone else quit and got a better one, then you can understand why some TBM's might act a bit odd.

Welcome, starkravingmad.

Although a few years older than you, I too, grew up in SLC, joined the church at 21, went on a mission, and got married in the temple. My childhood friends loved the fact I converted since they felt they were a part of my conversion. When I left, I stopped being invited to our yearly luncheons. In addition, since I moved away from SLC several years ago, none wanted to friend me on Facebook, except one. That friend moved beyond the shunning until little by little those friends looked past their stupidity and started friending me.

I don't fully trust these friends, as I'm sure they don't fully trust me. But at least we've gotten past some childish behavior. I meet regularly with the group when I'm in town for our luncheons. In fact, they schedule these get-togethers for the times when I visit. These are the friends I grew up with, and at least we have a common past unrelated to the church.

Hang in there. Another friend in our similar position lives in Davis County like you. Over the years, his neighbors and friends in the church have come around since their initial shunning. He is and always will be an amazing friend, neighbor, husband, and father.

I'm glad you found us on RfM. I hope you will find some comfort here.

My daughter went to Davis high. Worst 3 years. Sent my son to Layton. Kaysville, Farmington, Fruit Hights feed into that school.

It is the strangest area to live if you arent' MO. and even the Mo's have cliques. These people live mostly east and think they are special.

When the boundries in the area I live which borders Kyasville changed petitions went around my neighborhod to stop it and anyone who could manage a move sold and moved to Fruit heights.

They all live in fear of there children being around anyone who is different.

In my opinion you will be better off living an authentic life. Change is always hard.

Thanks for all the kind replies.

I should have added that this wasn't an across the room type interaction but was more of a shoulder to shoulder type.

In my own case, having had a day or so to think about it, I realized that my initial reaction of sort-of, kind-of, wanting to "go back" was from the initial lonely feeling I had. My wife and I spoke later and she expressed how surprised she thought this "friends" actions were towards me. That helped to hear 'cause then I knew I wasn't just being sensitive.