..., and if they plan on brainwashing their children and supporting legislation that limits the rights of other human beings based on subjective interpretations of bronze-age fairy tales.
Well, if they believe in bible-god then he didn't just "let it happen." He made it happen.
If bible-god is all-knowing (which they claim he is), then he knew that today's shooting would happen before he ever made his first creative act. He chose to go through with it anyway. Therefore, he made the shooting happen on purpose.
Now the bible theists can jump through their hula-hoops about how it's all part of some bigger plan that we just can't understand...
Not only believe in a God that let's such bad things happen to innocent children, the try to tell us what a good and LOVING god the god they believe in is.
It's completely up to you if you want to be angry. You won't convince anyone of your understanding that there is no god by being mad at them though. I don't believe in god any more, but I'm not angry at any one just because they believe.
As an atheist, you don't need to live by any one's rules that you don't want to.
i should add though that I do get very annoyed by persistent religious posts. Probably less annoyed than they would get though if I started posting atheist stuff all over FB
It was the anger of exmormons that caused my brother to ridicule me after leaving the church, because he assumed exmos were all raging lunatics, fist flinging, yelling and screaming. He called me a hater, all because of his perception of the anger. Because of that, he assumed I was part of that, and refused to hear any of it.
Expressing anger via protests worked to change minds for the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, the Viet Nam War protests, India's independence struggle.... The list goes on and on.
On a personal note, there has been more than one occasion where I didn't get trough to someone UNTIL they understood the amount of anger I was feeling. They only understood that after I expressed it.
However you seem to say that anger NEVER works by saying "You won't convince anyone of your understanding that there is no god by being mad at them though". I am sorry, but I have seem anger used successfully to break through religious programing.
At this point, I think we're arguing over semantics and going nowhere.
I'm guilty of over-stating when trying to make a point, and now having my over-statements analysed instead of the core meaning. Just as you point out that my intent was that it was "never" good to get angry. Obviously I don't actually believe that it's NEVER good to get angry.
For the record, there is a time and place for all emotions, including anger. I will get angry some times, other times I prefer to use a degree of tact. I merely shared an experience that provided a different perspective. Perhaps it would have been worded better the statement "you won't" to "you may not".
But to be quite honest, I put about 20 seconds of thought into that post.
Stop your black and white thinking and address what I actually said and I will not have to correct you.
If you are overstating something, then you are NOT BEING TRUTHFUL. To me you come across as a pure black and white thinker. It does not get your point across and makes you look irrational.
And who says you can not express anger with tact?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2012 06:50PM by MJ.
But that is what I expect from people that can not make an actual valid point.
I never say for them to think the way I do. But they were applying black and white thinking to my statements of gray thus addressing them in a way that does not address the true meaning of WHAT WAS SAID.
You do know the difference between thinking and saying, right?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2012 06:55PM by MJ.
"It was the anger of exmormons that caused my brother to ridicule me after leaving the church,"
I think you need to realize that it was your brother who caused your brother to ridicule you. His perception had nothing to do with other people, so don't blame other people for it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2012 06:13PM by snb.
A few months after that episode, I was on a road trip with him and we talked a lot, listened to Dehlin/Phillips interview. So he longer believes. There was a couple of things in between that caused him to open up and want to finally listen, mainly my mother being preachy.
However, in that particular case to which I'm referring, originally when he first heard that I went apostate, he decided to do a little research himself. What he found were youtube videos of angry "anti-mormons" and seemingly angry blogs. So while we were having that discussion, he was under the assumption that that's what anti-mormon stuff was. So when I tried to defend myself and explain why, he didn't want to hear it, because he felt it was based on lies and half truths of angry apostates.
Now, when we listened to the Tom Phillips interview with Dehlin, he was drawn in, because of the cool headedness of Tom Phillips, and he was impressed by how he wasn't bashing church leaders, but describing them on a personal level and giving an honest assessment of their character.
Unless you want to say your brother is not responsible for his actions, then nothing but himself was the cause of the angry outburst, the angry exmormons were scapegoats.
I don't think there's any one solid explanation silver bullet answer on this. This was his perception, his reaction. I was pissed as hell at him for it. At HIM, not the angry exmos. But he's since changed his views on that, as I stated above, thanks to some other influences.
I just don't think that being angry is my first choice of strategy. Tact is simply my preferred method. But like I said, time and place for everything
It has to do with a person being responsible for their own behavior. Hey, if you want to accept the excuse that exmo's or Satan made him do it, it is up to you, but it isn't true.
Again, you says you can not express anger with tact?
BTW, based on your behavior here, your reliance on hyperbole, mis-representations, and sarcasm, you may want to rethink your strategy of relying on tact. It does not seem to be your strong suite.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
More than once i've been the target of an angry raging believer. They really get vicious when they are trying to look like they aren't angry. They just quietly stab you in the back. If that doesn't work, they'll go after your spouse or children. They're the worst kind to have angry at you. They put a nice face on their rage. They have no problem using others to do their dirty work. I've known some who will pray to God that he will help them to accomplish their task.
"2 Nephi 2:23 teaches that in order to feel joy, we need to first experience misery. It's also true that the greater the misery we experience, the greater the joy we are then capable of feeling. So, while this was horrible and unfair, it wasn't because God was ignoring all those people. And it wasn't just to teach them a lesson either. It was to increase their joy in the long run. "Men are that they might have joy." I've learned this lesson through personal experience. It's true! I hope that helps."
There is always a cost with anger. It narrows the focus and draws more emotional and physical attention to things that may not be worth it for you to get involved in.
I'm only a few years into non-theistic thinking and I have noticed many times I have felt anger arise in reaction to believer's perspective and reasoning. Although I can't always avoid an initial strong reaction to these situations, I have concluded there is absolutely no benefit for me to be confrontational or demanding for others to see things the way I do.
I often still become angry, but I think for me it's best that I transform that emotional energy into something other than enmity in the long run.