I went to a party last night with a bunch of LDS ladies. The topic of conversation turned to the shootings in Connecticut. One of the women said that her heart breaks for the babies who were killed. Another woman jumped in and said, "The kids are fine, they're all in a better place. They are being loved and taken care of and they're all fine."

I just held my tongue because arguing with them all wouldn't do any good, and I would have just looked like a bitter apostate. They are all aware that we don't attend church, since our exit has been so public. They continued to debate that issue among themselves, and not all of them agreed. I guess it makes them feel better to believe that.

I wanted to scream that the babies are not fine. They were terrified before they died. Families have been ripped apart and will never be the same. Even if I believe that they are in heaven looking down, I can't believe that they are fine. They must also be in mourning for the life they lost, for the time they will not spend with their family, the Christmas they will now not have, the milestones they will never reach. Nobody is fine, and nobody will ever be fine. Most people will eventually be able to cope, but no one is fine.

The babies are not fine.

Not to mention all the idiots who are convinced that god helps them find their car keys and yet apparently can't be bothered to save innocents and their families from suffering such an unspeakable event.

Yeah, that one's really maddening to me too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2012 02:02PM by Susan I/S.

The church has manufactured a bizarre coping mechanism especially when taken in context of the 8 year old cut off into the CK.

According to Mike Huckabee, God was so pissed off by the concept of separation of church and state that he allowed a gunman to go into a school and shoot children.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/15/15928590-this-week-in-god

"God is not going to go where he is not wanted."

"Well, you know, it's an interesting thing. We ask why there is violence in our schools but we have systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage? [...]

"You know, God wasn't armed. He didn't go to the school. But God will be there in the form of a lot people with hugs and with therapy and a whole lot of ways in which I think he will be involved in the aftermath. Maybe we ought to let him in on the front end and we wouldn't have to call him to show up when it's all said and done at the back end."

From journalist, Steve Benen:"For that matter, there's very little in the Christian tradition that suggests God punishes children when constitutional law hurts His feelings."

Huh? The deity that most Christian denominations teach about is everywhere and chooses, in most cases, not to act because it would interfere with human growth. I would say that Huckabee needs to get the nuances of his doctrine straight, but that's impossible because the doctrine is so convoluted. So maybe Huckabee needs to just shut up about this horrible tragedy instead. It had nothing to do with God.

Exactly.

Could Huckabee expose himself as a bigger idiot? Love what Benen said, I can't ever believe in a God who would take his vengeance on kids.

Well God and the gospel was in the small school house in Nickel Mine, Lancaster County PA a few years ago, wasn't he?

I know, that thought went through my mind as well last night. I opted not to argue with them because it wouldn't make any difference.

:::shakes head:::

I'm almost surprised someone wasn't crass enough to say - they are lucky they get in the Celestial Kingdom automatically.

However, in a small sense there is some truth to that comment. Those in the most pain are those still alive. Parents, siblings, etc., etc. It wasn't only 26 lives that were destroyed - the impact is much, much wider.

I hate God.

*looks for meds*

I am saddened and heartsick beyond my ability to express it in words for what happened in Connecticut. And I am outraged by anyone like Huckabee or anyone else from either side of the political forum who will use this tragedy to further their cause...and that exactly what Huckabee did...IMHO

Ron Burr

Let Huckabee condemn himself. He will lose far more than he will ever gain with this kind of talk. Two other politicians betrayed themselves recently; One actually claimed that a raped woman can somehow "think" her way out of a conception.

By their fruits (and nuts)!

huckabee: 'worship my god or he will kill your children'

quite a sales pitch...

I had to hide FB posts from TBM friends saying the same thing. I think I even dropped the f-bomb in an RfM post about a similar issue last night. I was just so pissed off at their statements I wanted to respond negatively but deleted them instead.

I'm sorry you had to suffer through that episode last night. Hugs to you, twojedis.

1. I think the attack on Huckabee is only partially correct. The theology is a bit off but the political positioning is no worse than those who would use the incident to outlaw guns. Mind you, I am not a gun supporter but I think, unless more fact prove me wrong, that tighter gun laws would have been of little avail in avoiding the incident. After all, look at the one across the ocean where there were such laws.
2. I live not far away from Newtown and the killer's father lives only several miles away in the same city as I do.
3. We have grandchildren the same ages as those killed living with us.
4. What I do know is that three things affect the murder rate. One is the general likelihood of punishment for crimes, with a six month delay. The second is the rate of divorce time-averaged for a period in the state prior to the rate of murder. The third has a component on the rate of illegitimate births years earlier. Shortterm, for around six months or so, the rate actually drops after tragedies such as the one in Newtown or 9/11, or the asassination of a president such as that of Kennedy in 1963. I predict that the number of murders avoided in the next six months will, ironically, be greater than the loss of life in Newtown.
5. I make predictions not by the basis of a spiritual prophesy but on the basis of analysis of history.

twojedis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wanted to scream that the babies are not fine.
> They were terrified before they died. Families
> have been ripped apart and will never be the same.
> Even if I believe that they are in heaven looking
> down, I can't believe that they are fine. They
> must also be in mourning for the life they lost,
> for the time they will not spend with their
> family, the Christmas they will now not have, the
> milestones they will never reach. Nobody is fine,
> and nobody will ever be fine. Most people will
> eventually be able to cope, but no one is fine.
>
> The babies are not fine.



One of the reasons for hiding behind beliefs is to make everything okay and fine.

It attempts to take away the feeling of helplessness that they feel in not understanding why the world is as it is.

What would happen if they said, 'the babies are not fine.'
They'd be left to feel helpless fear of uncertainty.

Fear is a powerful motivation. Religion knows that and has been using it for years to instill hope.

It's interesting when one allows oneself to embrace the idea that just maybe 'the babies may not be fine.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2012 07:15PM by joan.