Yes. He is still a member in good standing albeit not active.
The jury is out on the reasoning why he hasn't been exed I believe though. Whether it's because he had his 2nd anointing and therefore cannot be exed due to policy or if it's because tscc knows it would draw unwanted media attention to call him to a church court. Or some other reason. Maybe someone else has a little more info on that?
"standard excuses"? His reason for not resigning is that he does not wish to submit himself to their process. I think that by resigning, he is recognizing that LDS Corp has some authority over him (i.e., asking that they grant your request for name removal). Perhaps that is his reasoning, as well. Anyway, it's his business.
"How disappointing"? Why would it matter to you whether he resigns or not?
I don't know why LDS Corp isn't taking action against him. Perhaps it is because they cannot and/or do not ex- those who have had their second annointings. But I can see that it is in the Corp's benefit not to ex- him. This way, they can point to him and say, "See? We do tolerate those who disagree with us! We are an open-minded, all-inclusive 'church'."
If you know what type of organization LDS, Inc. really is, why not send a one-paragraph e-mail saying you quit? How is that "submitting to their process"?
What he's doing at Mormonthink negates the "lame" bit.
Tom does more for our cause as a member than not. He holds a trump card that makes breaking his credibility much harder than your average exmo. Asking him to discard it seems counter-intuitive.
>>>>If you know what type of organization LDS, Inc. really is, why not send a one-paragraph e-mail saying you quit? How is that "submitting to their process"?
The lamest excuse ever, if you ask me.<<<<
It is not a "lame excuse."
He has made his opinions widely known and he has risked everything.
By submitting to the LDS Church's excommunication process he would be acknowledging THEIR authority.
I had myself excommunicated in the early '80s for my own reasons, but I could just as easily have stayed on their rolls, and the LDS Church and I could go our separate ways.
The fact that the LDS Church has not excommunicated "The Anointed One" is very interesting.
"The Anointed One" has my respect and he just may have the respect of the LDS hierarchy.
He dared to tell the truth. THe truth is powerful.
Maybe one day the LDS church will be equally as bold.
I can think of another reason why it would be good for 'anointed one' to remain a member of record. As long as he is on their rolls, LDS Corp and its apologists cannot dismiss his statements, arguments, and reasonings as merely 'rantings of a digruntled former member' or 'an angry ex-mormon.' He has credibility, and this credibility is reinforced as long as he is a 'member.'
Sure, everyone can do what they want. Just don't expect automatic respect. I have no respect for people who know the mormon church is a manipulative, abusive, authoritarian cult yet choose to remain a member.
You don't understand rt. I am not a member (under UK law), only under their ridiculous rules am I considered a member. Just as a dead person might be until they are 115 years old.
I do not profess to be a Mormon. I have stated numerous times I am an atheist.
So, like Tal Bachman and others, I am not jumping through their man made hoops. If they wish for me to not be a 'member of record' they can excommunicate me. But, it will be a painful and media intensive process for them so to do. The only thing I am guilty of is telling the truth.
So, how do they excommunicate a person they have judged worthy of being a god for simply telling the truth?
I think a person should resign for themselves, not because of what they think the church or anybody else might or might not do or say.
You now await excommunication, maybe even hope for it so you can inflict some media pain on the church but whether or not this will happen is still their call. I wouldn't want to be in that position. You can take control by resigning. It's only one e-mail.
And even if it comes from the mormon church, receiving that Dodge-letter is a great feeling, I can tell you!
I agree resignation is the appropriate step in most cases. It has worked for you and I am pleased.
I still retain the power to resign at any time I wish, but as I said above, I don't have to do that now. I am also aware that, if I resigned, I would still be included as a member on their database albeit a 'flagged' member.
Remember they changed their rules. At one time you could only leave by being excommunicated. Then, after legal challenges, they brought in their resignation process. For some this has been relatively smooth, for others it has involved unnecessary delay, interviews and further pain. Some have had to resort to threatening legal action to get a result.
All I am saying is I refuse to play by their rules. I am not a member - period - but by their definition I am. That does not make it true. By their definition (scriptures, prophets etc.) our sun gets its light from Kolob. Not true no matter what they say.
I can, of course, change my mind about resignation at any time. We are all free to choose what we do and should not impose those choices on others (except in cases that are beneficial to society such as choosing not to murder or commit other crimes).
Just as they are threatening to excommunicate us for "disturbing others" and being "too influential". Why? All we have done is to tell the truth as we have uncovered it. I refuse to be bullied and we have gone to social media in our corner of the cosmos to make a big stink about how the church strong arms those who uncover hidden truths. I love your perspective about not resigning. Why play by their rules? I'm not a member in my heart. It's their problem, not mine. Interesting way to look at it.
I'm sure they want you to just resign, so they don't have to deal with you. They want to keep thinking that anyone who doesn't believe is an evil apostate who wants to sin, or was weak and easily offended. The longer people like you stick around, the more the believing members will start to wonder. How could such good people think this is all a lie?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 11:05AM by Naomi.
rt Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You now await excommunication, maybe even hope for > it so you can inflict some media pain on the > church
You characterize it as if the church is a victim. Get off that line. It has no traction here.
I find it sad that stupid and rt haven't shown themselves capable of more nuanced cognition.
I'm not sure what they hope to gain by this bizarre peer pressure/call out. Whatever. I guess they didn't learn anything from the authoritative, totalitarianism of Church administration AND gestapo Church culture (which they appear to be perpetuating here).
In any case, they are as entitled to their opinions as Tom is to his, and his chosen course. But not need to badger Tom about it; he didn't specifically call you out in somebody else's post and heckle you for not retaining your membership. Step off, I say.
It might be useful to remember that in most other Christian denominations, you simply walk away. No resignation needed, because they won't come after you or pester you.
It's all part of the perspective, the larger the perspective, the smaller we realize our minds really are. Sometimes we are too caught up in our little sphere to see that we are being small minded.
It's a problem for sure when people have no respect for other people that don't do things their way. Just like the mormons do on missions etc. Really, then you need to remeber back on all the times you were wrong before to chop you down off your ivory tower. None of us is always right so to take such a hard line on having only one right way to do something is being small minded. It's ok, its just not ok to impose it on other people.
By not resigning, the "Anointed One" perpetually keeps the church on the spot. My bet is that they dearly wish he would resign.
How can they excommunicated ANY OTHER member, and not him?
They can't act, yet they can't tolerate insubordination either; He leaves the church dangling by their own conceits.
It appears that he is saying: "I am going my way. You do as you please" -- while knowing that they can't do anything without greatly exposing and harming themselves.
The church is kept off balance, waiting for the other shoe to drop. The situation must be totally bewildering and frustrating to the powers that be. I can just imagine the gnashing of teeth and the wringing of hands as the 'brethren' ponder, "What to do . . . what to do? "
It proves his point - that he hasn't done anything wrong, other than to tell the truth.
To non-members and ex-mormons, membership isn't worth much. But it isn't hurting anything for Tom to remain a member. And it is helping current members to see the truth.
So why exactly do you want Tom to resign? Does it offend you that the LDS church membership may not be purely composed of true believers? That there may be 'wolves among the sheep'? Tom is more of a lion among the sheep, and he's not hiding in sheep's clothing. So why are you so concerned to get him out of the flock?
The "contract" to become a member of the mormon church was entered into at the age of eight at baptism. A minor is not responsible for contractual agreements....so the agreement to membership we are told we have to resign from in order to remove our name from mormon membership is not valid from the beginning. That doesn't take into account that the church witheld information therefore members have been deceived by not having full disclosure making the "contract" non binding.....but what do I know, I'm not a lawyer.
When we left Mormonism, we rejoiced in the return of our individuality. This type of change opens the way for tolerance and the abandoning of the view that those who differ are unacceptable (their religious beliefs an abomination in God's eyes, for example).
Unfortunately the habits of black and white, us vs. them thinking does not so quickly dissolve. Ever so often you see people attacking others for not handling their departure from Mormonism the same way the poster did.
I understand the desire to see the Mormon church dwindle in numbers; however, excommunications and resignations are not what you would imagine. NOTHING REALLY HAPPENS--rt, do you understand that. Imagine your chart at a hospital --what do you think would happen if you screamed, "I am leaving and I want my chart removed. I want my name stricken. I don't want anyone to know I was ever here today."
Your file would say, "Patient requested his file destroyed and all traces of him ever visiting the hospital removed. Referred to psychiatric outpatient."
In Mormondumb, your file will be flagged and your name will be given to the R&R team to check up on you every 10 years until you pass after 110 years of age.
In 1983 I resigned. They told me I would have to be excommunicated that they don't honor resignations. I told them they would hear from my lawyer if the word "excommunication" was used in connection with my name (at the time I worked in Utah). They agreed.
Fast forward to 2005. On a hunch I called the COB and asked if I was a member. They said, "Yes." So I went through the Greg Dodge dance, which I now realize is meaningless.
Some people give the same argument against objecting to dead dunking. If you don't believe it, they say, why do you care what mumbo jumbo we are saying using names of the dead?
You can demand the Greg Dodge letter, for your own peace of mind, knowing you did everything to remove your association from this cult. AN EQUALLY ACCEPTABLE CHOICE is indifference to their beliefs and a refusal to follow their Hokey Pokey dance of having your name removed from their imaginary rolls.
You may have done the former, anointed one is doing the latter, others have chosen what I call the Lion's Den approach by demanding to be excommunicated. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to handle one's separation from a flesh-eating cult.
We stand united in everyone's right to handle it in however meaningful way they find. I wrote "I FIRE YOU MORMON CHURCH" on a piece of paper and burned it along with my divorce papers on the beach, watching the smoke rise into the sky, my old life leaving the earth. I made this ceremony up and it worked for me.
It would be ridiculous to insist that others do the same--it would be like insisting people take the sacrament with their right hand (instead of their left which they wipe their butt with? But what if you wipe your butt with your right hand? And use toilet paper? Then does the hand choice not matter to god?)