From the Mormon board on Babycenter:
http://community.babycenter.com/post/a25827821/masturbation_for_males.?cpg=1&csi=2275843035&pd=-2

I'm an LDS male and was a little shocked to read the recent replies to the masturbation thread. It seems that many people lack a basic understanding of how the male reproductive system works, so I had to register and give my two cents. The first thing that must be understood is that males must ejaculate regularly. We do not have a choice. That doesn't necessarily mean masturbation, but if a man or teenage boy doesn't release his sperm manually or through sexual contact, it will happen anyway. It sometimes happens in a wet dream that usually includes unconscious or semi-concious stimulation (for me I would sometimes wake up instinctively thrusting against my bed) or through accidental stimulation, but it will happen. Repeat that, it will happen.As a missionary, I remember taking a long bus ride where I had placed my back pack on my lap. I fell asleep and was awoken to a feeling of ecstacy as my backpack vibrating with the bus caused me to ejaculate. It was embarrassing to say the least and I had no change of clothes. After that I took care of myself from time to time, trying to do it as little as possible. Every single one of my companions masturbated from time to time as well. Again, release is not a choice, it is a natural bodily function like peeing or eating. I discussed it with the mission president, and was informed that nearly every missionary in the mission had their own struggles with masturbation. The second thing is that, for males, especially teenage males, release happens inevitabley through masturbation. Studies have shown that close to 100% of normal functioning males have masturbated and more than 90% of males masturbate regularly. No, your husband and church leaders are not an exception. In the child development class that I took at BYU, we learned that most males discover masturbation accidentally. For me I was playing a video game that required pushing the button as quickly as possible. I was holding the controller in my lap and vigorously tapping the buttons. Before long I had reached orgasm. Of course I didn't realize what was happening, but within a few days, I had figured out how to get an orgasm with little effort. When I was taught what masturbation is and was told that it was a grievous sin, I tried to stop but simply couldn't. The longer I resisted, the more difficult it became, like a balloon inflating until it is ready to burst. I believed I was the only one in the world with this problem. I thought I was going to hell and I beat myself up with guilt. I do not think that was healthy for me or other boys to experience that type of guilt for something that is completely normal and inevitable even if it may be considered a sin by some. I have heard of extreme cases where the guilt over masturbation even led to suicidal thoughts. I guess my point is that even if you think masturbation is a horrible sin, fine, but please do not let your boys destroy their self esteem and self worth by giving them endless guilt trips and religious preaching. Let them know that it is normal to struggle with this after the onset of puberty, that it is a perfectly healthy part of life. It's fine to encourage them to abstain, but please let them know that pretty much nobody is able to consistently abstain in their teenage years. It is okay to fail. To be honest, it is inevitable for most. Be supportive of them and teach positive sexual messages to them instead of condemning them. Puberty is hard enough without facing horrible guilt for doing what nearly every teenage male has done since the beginning of time.Maybe I misunderstood some of the replies in the other thread, but I hope I at least provided some insight and understanding on this issue that I thought had been lacking in the discussion. Thanks for reading...

Sometimes it just makes you want to scream, doesn't it? I can't say I can't believe how narrow-minded they are because I was one of them once.

Masturbation is almost universal among male mammals. The scientific reason is that the sperm needs to be refreshed in order to ensure potency. The Mormon war with reality is a crime against developing youth. Young men are scarred with needless guilt. Old Mormon men who lead are irresponsible and cruel.
Throw 'em in the junkyard with all the old cars and let their nuts rust.

If one looks at the similarities between menstruation and ejaculation, there's no question that both of these involve natural necessary functions of the reproductive system. They're extremely similar. A woman has to bleed to replace the lining of the uterus regularly for a healthy pregnancy to occur later. A male has to ejaculate to replace semen regularly for fresh semen to be produced for a healthy pregnancy later. Also, the organs associated with these functions need to be activated regularly to function correctly. The uterus needs to contract during menstruation and the prostate needs to contract during ejaculation for them to remain healthy functional muscles/glands.

But because male ejaculation involves sexual pleasure many forget that the need to release semen regularly is is about the reproductive system mainly. Like you said, it is a biological necessity to ejaculate, just as it's a biological necessity for a female to menstruate.

I've often thought what would it be like if we felt guilty because the blood has to be released. The only difference for us is that there is no sexual pleasure from menstruation. So there's no guilt, no sense that this is a sexual thing that is happening. But that has to do only with the differences in how our sexual organs are arranged. Males having to ejaculate is exactly the same as a female having to bleed.

I have no idea how to deal with people who can be that ignorant.

@Cristina,
Your post made me think of another point. It was biologically necessary for one of the genders to have a stronger sex drive than the other. If men didn't have this drive for sexual pleasure, then procreation would dwindle. If women AND men both had the drive for sexual pleasure as strongly as men do, then we would have massive more children in the world without parents who stick around to raise them. It makes sense that one gender would need to be especially driven in this sense.

The idea that men have stronger sex drives than women is just an excuse used by predatory men and rapists. Women are apparently more susceptible to the brainwashing that says "sex is evil", because women don't have the physiological need for release that men have, so women are able to repress their sex drives more easily. Women who break free of the indoctrination have similar sex drives to men.

My "I agree" was meant to you sexismyreligion. It posted in the wrong place.

Sorry, I actually meant "I agree" to lyndsaymcall. Sorry for the confusion. I'll stop right now.

Actually, sexismyreligion, I think it is a vaild argument to suggest that there are huge differences in the sex drives of men and women, and that men in general have a stronger, more responsive, easier-accessible sex drive. Rapists are not listening to their sex drives and responding. They are demeaning a victim in a violent way that happens to involve semen at the end. Rape and sex are not comparable. A rapist knows he is raping someone in violence. It has nothing to do with horniness or sex drives!
One gender HAS to be constantly responding sexually or else we all would put off sex for "another time." It's nothing to ever be upset about--this way we propagate the species.
And I'm certainly not suggesting that men are sex-crazed and women are frigid. But it is definitely proven that men IN GENERAL are able to respond physically to sex and ejaculate in an easier, quicker way than women are.

I'm not saying that I think the rapist did it because of his sex drive, I'm saying that the rapist himself CLAIMS that as the reason. So I don't want to give him that justification.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 11:29AM by sexismyreligion.

I'm guessing not. ;-)

Women have a strong sex drive. We just peak later than guys do.

Our sex drives are also different at different ages. Maybe you're on to something. If girls were as sex obsessed at 16 as boys teen pregnancy would be at 99% of teens. It doesn't put women down to say our sex drives are different. There's an ebb and flow to everything and it doesn't mean we're less because we experience the ebb and the flow according to our own patterns.

Good analogy... but too bad menstruation is not nearly as much fun as ejaculation is.

As a nevermo, I do not understand why anyone thinks it's their business who's masturbating and how often. If you want to talk about living up to standards, there are so many other things you could focus on besides jerking off...

And yes, I will go on record to say that I very much enjoy self-pleasure and sometimes I'm even lucky enough to have erotic dreams (not nearly often enough, though). I wouldn't last five minutes in the LDS church.

I agree with you, but the whole "asking if you masturbate" thing is done in the church because Mormons are obsessed with being "worthy". They believe masturbation is a sin, and doing it makes you not worthy. They also believe that you CANNOT properly repent, or go through a repenting process, until you CONFESS the sin out loud to a church leader first.

They believe confessing is the first (and most important) step in repenting and becoming worthy. And that you are not doing your job or doing enough as a "good Mormon" if you're not reaching out to other people and either trying to convert them, or help other memebrs become/stay worthy.

So its not that a bishop or a church leader believes that other people's masturbation is his "personal business". Its that he believes its his job to help people be worthy, and in order to do that, he must ask certain questions, to probe for (or prompt) a confession.

Although I still think its sick, I'm just trying to explain the "religious culturural influence" behind it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 01:32AM by melissa3839.

Yeah... I get the concept behind confession. I just don't understand why masturbation is considered sinful. I have heard some of the official reasons why it's "wrong". The ladies on Babycenter say that they consider masturbation to be selfish and addictive... whatever.

I guess if you can't masturbate, you might be more likely to hurry up and get married so you can have sex... which means you might end up choosing the wrong person. Having seen the aftermath of my husband's divorce, I think that's the dumbest reason of all to get married.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah... I get the concept behind confession. I
> just don't understand why masturbation is
> considered sinful. ...

Inevitably, you'll find their reason in the Bible. something about someone "spilling his seed" on the ground and being cursed for it. Onan, yeah, that's the guy. Ancient nomads thought sex was all about procreation. Or so they claimed.

As for the OP, good post. If masturbation is natural and in fact necessary, then in all those fucking p'hood interviews, the boss-man was lying his damn nuts off about not pulling on himself! And they have the audacity to lecture us against it. What a bunch of hypocritical blowhards.

was killed by Yahveh (God of the O.T.)...don't ya just love that guy? :)

I just wish these people could look outside themselves. The conversation sounds like this:

"Okay, if the earth revolves around the sun tell me why I can stand in one spot and watch the sun move across the sky while I and everything around me stands still?"

I wonder if these people will ever leave the 19th Century?

I would like to add my two cents as a woman regarding masturbation, because it seems like this topic is always discussed with regards to only one gender. It is not a male issue; it is a human issue.
Women may not have the same specific physical urge to orgasm as a functioning body, but we are constantly omitted from this masturbation discussion as not having the same desires and compulsions to masturbate as men. This is not true, or at least it wasn't for me.
I, too, discovered masturbation early (maybe twelve?) accidentally. It came through the basic self-discovery that happens when you're going through puberty. My mom was very practical in making sure I knew my body parts: she would tell me my "private" areas needed to be checked up on constantly just like my nose or my ears, making sure they were clean and healthy and functioning properly. During one of these self-examination bouts, I discovered that pleasure was caused if I touched myself a certain way. I accidentally orgasmed a few minutes later and thought something was happening with my blood. It freaked me out.
Since then, I have made it a priority to have a healthy relationship with my body sexually, whether I'm doing sexual things with a partner or on my own.
It takes away empowerment to suggest that anyone, a man or a woman, shouldn't masturbate. Being told that I wasn't allowed to touch my own body in certain ways went against EVERYTHING my parents and society taught me regarding my body and stranger danger. They told me my body was my own; I made decisions regarding its health and safety, and if anyone ever tried to touch me and I didn't want them to, I was to scream NO and run away.
What about me touching my own body?
This goes along with the doctrine that your body is a temple, a rental from God, not your own. I am certainly aware that I have a soul or a spirit, something metaphysical that makes my physical body move about and think and feel. But I am just as much my soul as I am my body. I want to feel like I can do as I please within my own physical body and no one else can tell me whether I have permission or not.
Masturbation is absolutely a function--whether or not it is "necessary" is besides the point. It is up to the owner of the body to decide this. My decision is that masturbation is good clean fun, necessary for my sanity, and frankly, not the business of anyone else's to ban it.
Women should be included in this topic because we are also ridiculously instructed to never touch our own bodies. This soiled the mind of my best friend growing up, who called me a sinner because I used tampons, and to use tampons you had to touch yourself "down there." And to her, that was masturbating.

Besides, doesn't it say something about the necessity of this function if most of the LDS people who are supposed to refrain from practicing this still do it anyway? Doesn't that make it a necessity?

I would like to add that if God hadn't wanted us to touch ourselves, he'd have made our arms shorter.

Now THAT is hilarious!!!

Yes, but religious nuts will simply argue that we can reach those parts so that we can "clean" those areas when bathing, or something... Just like dogs can lick their.... Nevermind, lol. Since many religious people belive "cleanliness is close to godliness", that's probably what they will stick to.

lindsaymccall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to add that if God hadn't wanted us
> to touch ourselves, he'd have made our arms
> shorter.


Did you know that Kangaroos manually masturbate and lick themselves too. Their arms are shorter than humans too, but they're flexible bodies compensate for that. I just find that interesting since they have opposable thumbs and can grip things like humans with their claws. it's actually kinda funny, nothing gross. just nature at it's best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXLDJrDQLc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpLkC0qOyOc



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 01:49AM by experienceheals.

Yes, we all do it. I guess for some reason, not as a jab to men or anything, women don't seem to feel the need to brag about it! Like I would never see a reason to say, hey people, I do it and wow. Since we're not bragging, sometimes it's assumed it's not important to us (women).

The wet dream on a bus as a missionary is probably the funniest story I've heard in a long time.

On a "serious" note, I started masturbating because my wet dreams were horrifying. Much better to take cafe of yourself.

Plus, if it makes god cry, then it also should be supported. That asshole makes people cry every day. Fair is fair.

I had a friend who fell asleep on his girlfriend's couch in the middle of the day. He woke up having a wet dream. It was all he could do to cover up the wet spot and sneak away to change his clothes. He told me he just missed running into the gf's father.

I'm sure there are some good stories out there.

Why would God make men the way they are and then dictate that they not take care of themselves? Is he some sadist who enjoys people suffering?

+1

It's not just men. I know women who need to release too. And this is why the members marry young and are stuck in an awful marriage for eternity, because they need to release!

trying to type with one hand. lol.

But seriously, this one thing, and the shame and guilt from the mormon church about it, is reason enough to kick the cult to the curb.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-04-07/news/17424030_1_prostate-cancer-sexual-activity-cancer-deaths

There are lots of stories and lots of articles, but I just linked to the first one I found.

As a single woman, I have a nice vibrator that I use on a regular basis. No shame here!

Males generate sperm all the time, unlike females who have a limited supply of eggs that they go through each menstrual cycle. Sperm ages in a few days and becomes stale, immobile and infertile.

If a man doesn't ejaculate, his supply of ejaculate becomes useless. A man must either ejaculate from intercourse, masturbation or nocturnal emissions.

The longer you go without ejaculating, the more sensitive you become and the more you desire it. If you are not having intercourse a few times a week, you have to take care of yourself.

Humans evolved over millions of years. Male bonobos and chimps are pretty similar to human males. Human religion is a few thousand years old. Which do you think is more powerful: biology or religion?

Axeldc

If you're not married and so not trying to procreate it doesn't matter how stale your sperm gets.

If you're keeping your hands off (yourself) and you get sealed in the Temple you'll have one night (the wedding night) with stale sperm but you can impregnate her the next day.

Great post. I did click the link and read a few pages of the comments. Wow, just wow.

anybody wanna "blow pop"?

how bout a Big Stick?

Just no tootsie rolls, please.

LOL! ewe! no fudge cicles either. thank you very much.

Regarding the subject of bishop's discretion-- I noticed that when I had a young bishop/stake president, they wanted details. When I had a really old bishop, I went to him thinking now here's a guy I can talk to without feeling a creepy interest from him.

I told him I was masturbating because my husband didn't satisfy me and I had a question-- he interrupted me and put his hand up in "stop" position. "Don't want to here it," he said, "that's personal between you and your husband. Work it out with him."

It seems that some men lose interest in their "worthiness job" when they get older LOL!

Anagrammy

Amen to the fact that its not just men! lol.

I'm a woman, and I can testify that if I do not masturbate at least twice a week.... I will probably beat the hell out of someone.

I discovered masturbation very young.. Well, clitoral masturbation anyway... Didn't even know I had a vaginal canal until many years later, like at age 10. Until then, I thought that the only thing girls had was the stuff on the outside (labia skin and clitoris). And even when I did learn about the vagina, I was not very interested in it, because NOTHING-- regardless of how small- would go in. And trying was horrifyingly painful, so I didn't care much for it.

I think I was maybe 3 years old when I figured clitoral masturbation out??? Yes! I remember, lol. I have fairly detailed memory, I started talking very early and I can even remember moments when I was a baby.

I just remember I was running around my room in my "birthday suit". I had a body-length mirror on the back of my door. Innocently, I was examining this body part, and that body part, in front of the mirror. Then I was like...

"Ok, and what is all this down here.... Oh, ok---- Wow! HELLOOOO!!!"

lol



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 01:59AM by melissa3839.

I also discovered clitoral stimulation very young. I remember being 6 or 7 playing on the monkey bars and discovered that if I straddled them a certain way it felt _really_ good. I have always had an extremely high sex drive, from the time I lost my virginity at 15 on and I think part of that was being able to orgasm easily and often, it gave me more motivation ;)

I believe if you live as close to the natural cycle the more healthy you will be. So I eat non processed foods and grow and raise a lot of it myself. You always have more energy if you rise with the sun and set with it.

Ejaculation is a natural cycle. The prostate is a gland that is meant to be emptied regularly. If it doesn't get used there is a higher risk of prostate cancer.

Catholic priests have problems because they are celebate. It's unateral and they become pedafiles and perverts.

Mormon males have problems because they can't masturbate and have a normal sexual exploratory experience without being loaded with guilt and shame.

My advise is relax for a day, get out and observe nature and then ponder on how you fit naturally into nature's cycles and then apply that to your life. See what happens. You will be a lot happier, hopefully healthier, and live a more fulfilled life.

Sex is my religion Wrote=

"The idea that men have stronger sex drives than women is just an excuse used by predatory men and rapists."

I just have to laugh that you think there are no predatory women!


Are you sure you have not been indoctrinated also? In a different and more ugly way-It seems you have a grudge against men?

Why? Also why do you feel you have to make such generalizations?

"Women are apparently more susceptible to the brainwashing that says "sex is evil", because women don't have the physiological need for release that men have, so women are able to repress their sex drives more easily.

Really-Evil? Brainwashing?-Women don't have physiological need?

Are you KIDDING ?

Once again you misunderstand everything I said. I'm not talking about predatory women because I was responding to the idea that men have higher sex drives than women, which isn't true. Do you want to give another explanation of why men would make up the idea of having a higher sex drive, unless it was to get away with rape? "I couldn't help it, I'm a man and I have a high sex drive." I don't see predatory women using that particular excuse.
A man and a woman who are both taught that sex is evil their entire lives may respond to that differently. Women can more easily adjust to the conditioning to avoid any sexual contact or touching themselves, because women don't have the same physiological need for release. What exactly are you disagreeing with? Are you saying that you DON'T think it is brainwashing to teach children from a very young age that sex is evil?
The only men I have a grudge against are: 1) Those who use positions of power to manipulate others, as some of the Mormon leadership does, and 2) I have no sympathy for rapists. Both those categories are much more likely to be men than women. I generally dislike all posters (regardless of gender) who have poor reading comprehension skills and judge me on motives that I don't have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 10:48AM by sexismyreligion.

Sex and rape are not even comparable! I replied to your earlier post regarding this but just had to reiterate it. Rape has NOTHING to do with sex and everything to do with power and violence.

Predatory men who rape women can use the (false) idea that men have higher sex drives to excuse their behavior. Rape is about power and control, but the rapist can say, "I just couldn't control myself" because he thinks he has this uncontrollable sex drive. It's not true, men don't have uncontrollable sex drives, and people shouldn't accept that idea as fact because it gives an excuse to rapists.

Well, I guess we will have to just agree to disagree. The idea of a man not controlling himself will not and does not hold up in court, ever. A man (or woman) rapes because he/she is a power-seeking, violent individual. A rapist knows exactly what he/she is doing. Suggesting they are doing it because they "lost control" is both insulting to a rape survivor and suggesting the rapist was possibly not completely guilty.
But I'm letting this go now. Didn't mean to butt heads but we probably won't agree. And this seems like a bitchy thing to say, especially at this point, but I am actually a (nearly licensed) sex biologist and evolutionary behaviorist. I do know what I'm talking about here. :)

I'm talking about something that actually happened to me, and I hope you never become therapist if it's that easy for you to take the side of the rapist.

You know what? I was raped as well, and if anyone ever suggested to me that my rapist "lost control" because of a sex urge, I would shit a brick.

He was violent and a douche bag, evil beyond belief. That's why he raped me. Not because he needed to whack off and decided he wanted sex.
I'm sorry that something happened to you as well. It's amazing how many people are similar in their experiences--many of us have violation sometime in our lives.
I would never become a therapist. I'm way too big of an asshole to be counseling people. I am a researcher. And the medical community agrees that there are vast differences in the sex drives of men and women, that men are quickly driven to erection for reasons of biologically assisting the procreation rate. This does all correlate with masturbation, because the medical community also agrees that it is a healthy activity to indulge in that has many benefits to fertility, stress management, and life expectancy.

You are both right in a way. I think you both understand that rape IS NOT about sex...it isn't. It's about shithead predatory men (and sometimes - not near as often - predatory women).

sexismyreligion does make a good point though, in that a male rapist will often use the excuse of his actions being the result of his need for sexual satisfaction, and it's harder for men to control this urge. THIS IS NOT TRUE! Rape is not about a high uncontrollable sex drive AT ALL - no matter what a dumbass rapist would say.

This mindset can lead to a lot of problems. Some incredibly ignorant people learn to blame or semi-blame the victim, because they believe they weren't dressing "modestly" enough. This is very very sad, and is in no way the case.

"Catholic priests have problems because they are celebate. It's unateral and they become pedafiles and perverts."

You are WAY off target with that comment. And basing your statement on opinion rather than facts. Please support that claim with facts.

There are A LOT of people in society who are celibate--not just Catholic priests. If every single person who was celibate was a pedofile or pervert (and, by definition, no longer celibate,) every kid in America would have been molested.

It's not just men. My wife masturbates almost daily, sometimes in her sleep, but mostly when awake by choice. Yeah, ok, I hear you men saying, "Then you need to take care of things better for her!"

Remember the classic Seinfeld episode when they make the bet, and Elaine wants in, and they don't want to include her because "it's different for women, it's like shaving."

Elaine: I shave my legs
Kramer: Not every day!

This is the best masterbation thread. I just wondered if three times a day is normal for 50 years. What do you think?

Don't you get chafed?

This is so embarrassing to admit, but I remember confessing my teenage masturbation to my high school, non-Mormon girlfriend, like it was a horrible thing that I did. She laughed at me.

Also, I had to confess masturbating to my father during an interview because he was in the bishopric. Thanks, Mormonism!

Thought one:After a vasectomy, a man still makes sperm. The supply of it just gets cut off. In other words, the semen comes out without the seamen.(Sorry, couldn't resist.) Old sperm gets absorbed into the body as the supply refreshes itself. So I'm not convinced about the argument that a man needs to refresh the supply by ejaculating all the time.
Thought two: For a teenager and a college student, yes, its a way of life. But there has to be a balance, otherwise, one is living in a fantasy world. When attached to an SO, fantasies can have a way of undermining relationships for some people. As a middle-aged married man, I find reality much more rewarding when fantasy is kept to a minimum.

I'm a middle-aged married man and I'm just the opposite. I find fantasy much more rewarding and a big stress relief. I'd much rather masturbate to porn than have sex with my wife.

In this society that makes me a thought criminal. That's a thrill in itself.

I'm glad you have such a good marriage. As for me, the f___ing I got is not worth the f___ing I'm getting moneywise right now.

"As for me, the f___ing I got is not worth the f___ing I'm getting moneywise right now."

Are you saying that marriage is about getting sex for money?

I'm saying SOME women feel like the man is a treasury to be looted.

I'm not saying my marriage is perfect, I'm sure no one's is. And I'm not saying that I never whack it. Fantasy will always be better than reality, because fantasy is perfect. What I'm saying is, reality can be more rewarding when its not being compared to fantasy. It is alot easier to compare fantasy to reality when one is constantly engaged in fantasy. When you remove fantasy from the equation, it makes it that much more difficult for the brain to do the comparison. It also forces one to deal with reality, attendant with all of its problems, as well as appreciate the beauty that reality does have to offer.

I wish I could see it that way. You are very lucky.

Reality has always been as nice to me as a rabid Rotweiler. If it were not a fantasy escape I'd blow my brains out.

I may be getting that saying mixed up though, but it seems to fit..lol.

I actually shocked my TBM ex-husband when I didn't get angry or start crying when I walked in on him, and even told him that I knew it was a healthy, normal part of sexuality.

I have three sons. I told them that there was nothing wrong with masturbation but it was a private thing that should be kept private. This was after finding a semen-soaked wad of toilet paper next to the toilet.

"Anon", thanks for starting this thread. You expressed admirably some of the things I've wanted to talk to my boys about, and with your permission I'd like to quote some of your remarks. And Cristina, I'd never thought of the male/female sides of the same coin, but it makes sense, and I'd like to use some of that as well. My middle son is 13 and at "that" age so this is a very timely subject. Younger son is 10, but he'll be there soon enough. My ex grew up during the era of SWK and BKP's "little factory", and the damage caused by their dangerously warped views on masturbation (and plenty of other things) were directly responsible for many issues in our very unhealthy marriage. Thank God it's much better now, but no way am I letting my kids go through that kind of misery and self-loathing.