I found out my kid was interviewed tonight for a temple trip that I had zero knowledge about, that is supposed to happen this coming Saturday.

I fired off a letter to the bishop, because it seems while I thought *we* had an understanding, he didn't share that information with his counselors, one of which did the interviewing tonight.

I have pasted it here, with names removed. Do you think I sound serious enough?

Dear Bishop xxxxxxxx,

I am writing you with regard to my son, xxxxxxxxx. It is my understanding that the youth of the church are regularly interviewed to determine their “worthiness” to participate in activities such as attending the temple, as well as bi-annually to determine their general worthiness to hold the Priesthood or participate in their ward callings.

xxxxxxxxx has received the Priesthood this past year, and at that time, I requested that xxxxxxxxx always have a parent present in this type of interview. It is never appropriate for an adult from church to meet with any minor, behind closed doors, and to ask questions of a personal nature to said minor. To this point, it has been mutually understood that xxxxxxxxx (or xxxxxx, my daughter) should not be interviewed in private, under any circumstances, that a parent will always be present in the room.

It has come to my attention that xxxxxxxxx was interviewed this evening, during a regular weekly youth activity, in preparation for a trip to the temple this weekend. This is absolutely unacceptable. I am writing you so that you may distribute this letter as necessary, in order to make your counselors and xxxxxxxxx’s Young Men leaders aware of this request. And to let you know that I am disappointed that this information was not shared previously. Is there something else I need to do in order to make this perfectly clear? My children will not be interviewed at any time, by any church leader, in private. If I need to have a legal document drawn up, stating this, then I will be happy to do so.

Please distribute this information as necessary, or I will need to make arrangements to do so myself.

Thank you for honoring this request, and I hope we do not misunderstand each other with regard to my wishes as their mother, acting on their behalf.

Sincerely,

VultureTamer

Looks like BP will be opting for "better to ask forgiveness than beg for permission"

Or "you were serious about that?"

Or "Well I didn't know it applied to my counslers!"

Or "It's okay because nothing personal was asked."

Maybe getting all up in their stuff in the foyer where you can clearly state that minor children interviewed with sexual questions is against state law would be helpful to do. Make sure it is in front of members in the milling throng, keep your voice loud (project like an actor across the stage pit for the musicians) but nice and stir the cog-dis for some attending members.

Be ready to call the cops and have an "incident" report written up. Might as well contact cps as well. If you go ape over this they will think twice about doing it again.
The Mo church cultures seems to be very hick in its nature. This means they have the attitude he who makes the most noise is serious and wins the argument.

A non-public 'nice' letter will be ignored as you can see, so use their language and get them to listen.

It's not your fault they will only heed you if you are noisy and vocal in their face on their territory!

NOT anywhere near serious enough. I'd call the cops. NOt emergency but go and make a formal complaint that so and so was alone with your kid behind a closed door after you had told them not to do it.

First, it is not a request. It is a demand that will be followed. Make it more simple.

I have told you in the past that XXXXX is not to be interviewed without without me present. He was interviewed tonight by XXXXX. This is unacceptable behavior. I will be contacting your supervisor President XXXX of the XXXX Stake to make a formal complaint.

If this ever happens again I will be contacting legal authorities.
I demand that in the future I am informed before any interview takes place.

Please inform the youth leaders in the ward and stake who may come in contact with my child of the way all interviews will be handled with my children from now on.

Respectfully.....

I would also teach your kids to call you if they are ever asked to be interviewed.

I also like the idea of a foyer confrontation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 01:18AM by bingoe4.

Add "please advise me of your actions immediately."

Demand a response

+1

I would demand written confirmation that NO ONE at church will interview your children without your presence and that at least one week's notice is required. I might show up at the Bishop's office while they're having a meeting and demand an explanation.

Worthiness interviews are a way of stripping down boundaries, even if that's not the intention of the father of the ward or his counselors. Kids get that "ick" or uncomfortable feeling that something's not right about the situation and disregard it because it's a "trusted" leader. Those instincts need to be championed, not quashed.

Is it any wonder Mormons disregard their "something's rotten in Denmark" instincts when being presented with an "amazing opportunity" for a huge return on an investment or a get-rick-quick plan presented to them by a "trusted" church member or leader?

Bravo to you for advocating for your kids. My only suggestion is dial-up the demands and dial-down the deference.

Do your children know they are forbidden to meet behind closed doors alone with the bishop or any other adult (male)?

Why didn't they call you?


Anagrammy

I don't think he ever had a chance....but yes, he is well aware he is not to be interviewed without a parent present.

Dad doesn't support it. Dad will go along with it if someone in the bishopric had asked him to sit in, but he won't do it on his own.

(So funny, when I demanded I be present at the P-hood interview, Dad sat in with me. But that just proves he's a petty basta#d. Mom does the dirty work, and he rides the coattails. If he really, truly didn't support it, why wouldn't he let me just look like a fool in my son's eyes, and step outside?)

Thus taking away the intended result of the interview?

Yeah, I have considered that.

Not totally sure how to handle that one with the kid who desperately wants to go. : /

I know they have another trip this year. Maybe it's one of those crappy hard lessons.......that if things are handled appropriately next time, that he will get to go. If not, then no.

You guys rock my freaking socks. Thank you for the input....I am revising this right now.

BUT....I'm even MORE pissed, if that's even possible.

The person who interviewed my son, turned out to be the only "reasonable" member of the bishopric, whom is a friend of my husband's, who has been rather genuine throughout the years.

He and my husband went out for fries and shakes tonight, ironically, as they have done for many years, every month. It has been a good friendship, no pretense.

Anyway, I got the info from my son earlier this evening, and typed up my letter and posted here. Just as hubby & friend were about to head out to eat, friend/bishopric member came by and sat down for a few minutes while I spewed my anger about what had happened.

He was taken aback.....had NO idea of my request (I suspected he didn't, that the bishop had not told him).

I explained a little bit to him, some of my reasons, which should resonate, because he sits on a school board & is also a school teacher....he knows good and well that no minor is allowed to be behind closed doors in *that* environment. And my point is valid.

Anyway, he apologized, felt badly. He looked really sheepish, and I explained this was NOT personal in any way,shape or form.

He did tell me, however, that the interviews were benign, and that they only asked, "do you live the law of chastity?".

WELL GUESS THE EFF WHAT????

My kid did not know what that term meant. (I'm a complete failure, obviously......damn smartest kid ever, and didn't know what that meant....gah!)

So.......he asked, innocently enough, "What does that mean?".

And the guy said that he explained that "there are certain things between a man and a woman, that we shouldn't do until marriage". Ok, fair enough......

And the kicker: "That we also don't touch ourselves *inappropriately*".

DEAR BABY EFFING JESUS.

The damage is done. Second interview of his life, and I couldn't save him. I'm so pissed. I could cry.

I have tried so hard, so desperately, not to allow my children to feel ashamed of their bodies. I have subscribed to a rather open way of parenting, per Dr. Bill Sears series of parenting books that I devoured as a young mother.

I took some hell over it, when my brother read part of one of my books that discussed masturbation specifically....that when young children begin to explore, that it's NORMAL. And that if it makes the grown ups uncomfortable if the child is doing something like rub on the couch, to excuse the child to do that behavior in private.

And the book continues with advice that a child should not be shamed or made to feel that their bodies are bad. That private things can be private....none of mom or dad's business type of ideals.

That is the polar opposite of how I was raised, but I knew as soon as I read it, that my kids would be taught not to feel ashamed.

SO.....there it is. I feel sick. Sick to my stomach.

Couple that with the fact that my son said this to me tonight, when we were discussing the interview: "Mom, I might agree with you about having someone in the room with me, if I knew WHY!".

I told him it was a grown-up reason, but then did explain that NO ONE is allowed, such as the principal at school or a teacher, to meet with a child and close the door & ask personal questions.

I left it at that. He is well aware that no one is to interview him alone. He won't call me if it happens on the fly, because his father has a stranglehold on him.....dad & church are one in the same. And dad thinks it's absurd to have to sit with our son in an interview.

But like I said before, Dad is a good ol' boy, and a complete wussy when it comes to any type of confrontation.

FML.

Wow...it's coming back to me now. I remember being asked if I touched myself when I was a teen. A terrible creepy feeling came over me. I was so paralyzed with some kind of fear.
What a crock of guilt that this religion puts upon people! Perfection is NOT possible, unless you live in isolation. Even then, you won't be cultivating kindness because you don't have any contact with others to love them.
Sex has been around for thousands of years. Nothing evil about that.

I'm glad I will spare my children of this terrible practice.

Vulturetamer, I feel your steaming anger!!!!. I can't imagine the rage you must feel. Talk to your husband so he won't be so scared to say NO when when someone wants to get personal with your son, Hopefully your husband could be a little more proactive, if not, never allow your son to attend the Mormon church. As you know the Mormon church really disrupts a developing brain.

I'm sorry, I did not differentiate....it is my ex husband who is my son's father, he's the one who disagrees with being present in the interviews.

Why are you and your kids in TSCC? Seriously........Why?

Yes, I was wondering that as well.

+1 Surely being in on the interview and intervening if there is an inappropriate question doesn't stop that question being asked.

I have shared custody.....70 me/30 with ex. Ex is a rabid tbm. We attend the same ward. My son is so far in, that I made the choice to stay in & have supervision over my children, rather than just hand them over two Sundays a month to the tscc, and have zero information. I'm not letting them "have" my kids. They don't get to win. They don't get to "replace" me as a mother, they have a mother. Tscc is so good at disregarding boundaries, parental especially, but they've got a fight on their hands of tjat is what they're looking for.

I'm already ex'd. I'm fighting my fight from the inside.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 10:40AM by vulturetamer.

Suggestion: How about teach your kids to refuse any private interviews?

+1, or if their father insists that they go, emphasize strongly that they have a right to remain silent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 05:31PM by truthseeker.

before he complies with it. Plus, kids don't want to be put in the awkward position of refusing?

I think that is a good and apporpriate letter. I would make a point of delivering a "do not interview without a parent" letter to the new members of the bishopric as they are called. Be proactive.

I would also work with your child. Train him to say, "I am not allowed to be in a room alone with you without a parent present."

Thank you for keeping us posted.

make sure everyone knows why you have pulled him out.

the penis holders refuse to respect your authority as the sainted blessed mother with the most sacred of callings.

In six months, if son still wants to go back to church, inform him that this is his last chance. Put him in a normal youth setting for a change.

If it happens again, he is out for good.

You are his mother. What you says, goes.

You have the most sacred calling in the cult, who can argue?

I also agree with others who say that your letter is not nearly strong enough. And that a call to the cops is in order. They need to pay that bishop of visit.

Please understand, that if ANYTHING like this happened in a normal church, the cops would be all over it immediately. This is criminal activity, in every sense of the word.

1. Waaay to polite to these assholes
2. Contact the local police and inform them of the sexual nature of these private interviews
3. File a lawsuit

Fuggin Cult



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 11:07AM by breedumyung.

VultureTamer, I would be SO mad if I were you. I agree with those who said your letter covered all the basics but needs to be a little more strongly worded. All the suggestions were good ones. I also want to say, I applaud your decision to stay close to your kid. Sometimes if you are in a storm-tossed sea, you can't always rescue your kid but you can fight to stay near them and keep them safe until the time comes when a lifeboat arrives and you can both get to safety. It's tough but you are giving your best to protect your child and I'm sure he will bless you for it some day.

When we were first leaving the church - half in, half out - my son wanted to go on a temple trip too. I put my foot down about Bishop Jackwagon interviewing him and thankfully, DH had heard the bishop yelling at me and wouldn't take the chance he might yell at our son and stood by me. But he also had a friend who was a counselor, so we agreed that the friend could interview our son. I still wasn't happy, so I sent son with a hidden tape recorder and strict instructions to hit "record" if son felt at all uncomfortable. Friend kept it short and low-key but I still wasn't happy and insisted on being there for any future interviews. Fortunately, DS found the temple "creepy and kind of tacky" and the situation never came up again. Although BJ must have said something to his counselors (or the counselor/friend said something in bishopric meeting) because when the other counselor wanted to call my daughter to be secretary of her Beehive group, he asked me first if it was OK to talk to her about it if they stayed in the hall, in full view of everyone. My point is, be persistent til they listen to you because if they are at all reasonable, they will have to listen.

Do you feel a visit to fast and testimony meeting coming on? Maybe the ward needs to hear this.

You have every right to be pissed and should make this a big deal. Be confrontational- mormons hate that. But I suggest more open communication with your son. He's old enough and seems to want to understand your rules better. I can imagine you are trying to walk the amicable and respectful line with your ex, but the more you can get your son to think through things logically, to question things, to understand that he should never just accept and follow blindly- anyone- the better off he will be all around. Ask him questions, do you think Brother XYZ, who is not related to you, should be allowed to ask you personal and intimate questions without your parent there? What gives Brother XYZ this authority?

In my opinion, indoctrinating children with fantasy and telling them it is truth and these leaders should be blindly followed is, frankly, child abuse. It does a disservice to the child and sets them up for all sorts of problems related to a lack of critical thinking and blind acceptance. Do not sit idly by in the name of respecting your ex. Take a stand. If your child was being physically abused, you certainly would. The church is psychological abuse. Don't let it happen. If your child absolutely must go- continue to go with them and ask your kid/kids as many questions as you can to get them to think about the logic. "Do you think this makes sense?" Clearly you want to protect your kids and give them the best, don't soft step around in the name of respect- they are your kids, you can teach them to think for themselves (even if you don't feel comfortable directly calling BS on the church to your kids), if they have critical thinking skills and know they have the love and support to question things, they'll figure it out. Give them the power to stand up when a "leader" doesn't follow their mom's wishes. They will appreciate the respect you've shown them and the confidence you've taught them. But give the Bish hell too- he crossed a serious line.

you are right to be pissed and more...

when i was a child, i had horrible guilt about masturbation way before i ever masturbated. when the cult leaders talk about "touching yourself" it is easily mistaken with non-sexual touching of oneself, as when bathing and cleaning.

when the prick counselor asked your child
"That we also don't touch ourselves *inappropriately*".
it was exactly intended to induce guilt no matter what your son has or has not done. that's their sick and psycho game.

LET THEM HAVE IT!! GO TO THE POLICE NOW!!

The cult is damaging; get him and you Out of there!

File the police report. Having that on the record will be ammunition if you and the ex ever go to court over your pulling your kids out of TSCC.

I think you have to explain it to your son. He needs to know that the Mormon view of sexuality is warped. He needs to know that masturbation is normal, that 90%+ males do it, and that the Mormon religion uses it as a control tactic. He's old enough to understand that they are taking something perfectly normal and shaming people for it so that they can be controlled through guilt.
Also, your son needs to understand about boundaries. It is wrong for an adult in a position of authority to question anyone about sex. Even if it is a trusted family friend who doesn't ask anything inappropriate, the very fact of allowing authorities to ask those type of questions opens the door for perverts. And most importantly, it's none of their business!
And you should make a big stink about it as publicly as possible. Whether it's a confrontation in the foyer, standing up in testimony meeting, or filing a police report, make it an event that no one will forget.
I'd be pissed too. Use your anger to make sure it never happens again.

A hallmark of a dangerous cult is the allowance of behavior that would be completely out of bounds and disallowed in any other context.

This seems to have been the second installment of th same issue.

If it is a serious concern about child abuse, which I think it is is, I hope there won't be a third incidence and that police and lawyers are involved by now. I don't get too touch feely about this stuff, it's either wrong or it's not. I think it's wrong, call the police. Posting on RfM does squat.