Could Joseph Smith have secretly been laughing evilly over the power he had over his Mormon subjects? He even controlled what sort of underwear they wore. He had people handing their daughters over to him. Did he even take his own religion seriously? He put people through all of these rituals as they figuratively ate out of his hands.

1. Start religion.
2. Acquire moneys.
3. Enjoy female companionship.
4. Profit????

I have to agree.

I think he was proud of himself for being such a successful con man and had little or no respect for those he conned. Well, he couldn't have respected them, could he? Or he wouldn't have played them in the first place. He knew he was lying and laughed at the fools believing his lies.

Up to a point. At some point, I think he started believing his lies. As in "maybe I DO have some sort of power. Maybe God IS directing me." Obviously he knew a lot of it was B.S. but his importance to himself, God and humanity - that is what he may have started believing in.

Though he was definitely a con man, I'm not entirely sure Joe Smith always distinguished reality from fantasy. He was obsessed with the occult and folk magic, and it seems pretty clear that he believed somewhat in spirits and power imbued through ritual and the use of talismans.

My answer is both Yes and No, I suppose. He was both an opportunistic criminal and devout occultist.

I lean to this opinion as well, It think he was borderline mental, (his son was put in a mental institution) this allowed him to believe what he was saying and thus show huge conviction, converting even more people. I also agree ridgdon played a far greater role than he was given credit for.

It's called supply. And the need for it is insatiable.

"[When] Josiah Quincy [commented] to Smith that, 'General, it seems to me that you have too much power to be safely trusted to one man,' in reference to Smith being President of the Church, mayor of Nauvoo and lieutenant-general of the Nauvoo Legion. [Smith responded, 'In your hands or the hands of any other person, so much power would no doubt be dangerous. I am the only man in the world whom it would be safe to trust with it. Remember, I am a prophet!'] [B.H.] Roberts notes that this was spoken by Smith 'in a rich, comical aside, as if in recognition of the ridiculous sound they might have in the ears of a Gentile."

William Law:

"Joseph was very free in his talk about his women. He told me one day of a certain girl and remarked, that she had given him more pleasure than any girl he had ever enjoyed. I told him it was horrible to talk like this."

can I get some info on where that quote came from? please.

http://www.mrm.org/law-interview

About half way down the page.

What a wonderful snippet for the trailer to the Joseph Smith Miniseries.

At one time I thought that JS at least believed he was a prophet. However, if one even reads "The Lectures on Faith" it is apparent that he knew quite well he was not. He was laughing at everyone. He knew exactly what he was doing and is NOT in heaven planning for us. If he is anywhere, he is burning in hell.

My opinion is that he was a fatass little bitch. If he were living nowadays I would imagine him mooching off his parents while living in their basement playing video games 24/7. He would be an upper level WOW character with a nacho machine in his "living room." The only reason he got laid when he was alive is because people were deeply uneducated and gullible at the time. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time. It's extremely sad that he has become a "God" to so many people.

Priceless. Loved the "nacho machine" part. ROFLMAO!

The longer I spend on this board, the more I am exposed to other views.

Right now, I am leaning towards the real power behind the throne being Rigdon, et al. JS was just a figurehead who they were feeding BS.

Then JS started believing his own publicity and doing things–like moving the church all over the place, the Kirtland Safety Society, polyandry, polygamy, etc that were genuinely putting the future of the church at risk.

Eventually, JS became worth more dead as a made up martyr than he was as a 'live' prophet. He counted on the Nauvoo Legion to save him before the gunfight in the Carthage Jail. They never showed up; did someone keep them from responding realizing this was their chance to get rid of JS and use it to their advantage?

I don't think the 'power behind the throne' expected BY to ascend to the 'profit hood.' They would have been happier with a puppet they could manage.

Compared to JS, BY was a sociopath. BY ripped the foundation of the church apart re-making it as his own. (When the original 'charismatic' leader of a cult dies, the cult usually dies with them. However, if the cult manages to survive and a new 'profit' takes over, it is common for them to try to re-make the cult into their image.) Why is BYU not called JSU? Because BY was a sociopathic narcissist. JS never had that much power or control.

That whole, "Let's move everybody out to the Great Basin where they will be isolated and I can control them better." thing worked out well for BY.


Anyway, that's my thoughts...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2013 09:41PM by John_Lyle.

Brigham Young was even worse. What was going through his mind and why did people follow that man?

It’s what I thought too. I’ll think JS just went ballistic on his own PR I’ll think at the end he felt somewhat immortal.
JS became dangerous for the cult. JS didn’t look for the long term. He took whatever he could get his hands on no matter what.
I would be not surprised if someone tipped the people in the town. There were already others behind JS which looked in the long run.

too funny :p