A friend of mine who is on his way out of the church shared this with me today. Apparently the Branch President has been trying to save Salt Lake some money to build more shopping malls in Utah.

I find the whole letter disturbing. It is essentially addressing members who need financial assistance (typically for a short-term problem such as job loss) as second class citizens. For a church that strong arms members into giving generously of their funds, the spirit of charity seems to be lost on this asshole. My friend was telling me that during PEC, the BP was saying that a single mother in the branch will be losing her church welfare because she bought her kids Christmas presents. Disgusting.

The branch "guidelines":

The following is a list of items that apply to all members of the ________Branch who receive financial assistance. While struggling financially, it is important to remember that you should alter your lifestyle and avoid luxuries that do not help you progress toward financial freedom. The items below will help you live within your means and eventually you will become self-reliant once again.

1. Before asking for financial assistance from the Church, you must first exhaust all resources possible such as the following (NOTE: you will be asked about all of these items before receiving assistance):Liquidate all financial assets such as 401K, IRA’s and Roth IRA’s, savings accounts, stocks, bonds.

Liquidate all unnecessary assets such as extra automobiles (including project cars), motorcycles, quads, snowmobiles, expensive audio and video equipment, tools and equipment that are considered luxuries (riding lawnmower if you can get by with a push mower, tractor if you can get by without it, etc).If you have consumer debt (credit cards, layaway, personal unsecured loans), you must negotiate with the creditors and work out a plan for either deferring interest and payments until you can afford to begin paying or reducing the amount of the debt due to hardship. The Church will not help you pay bills so that you can pay down your consumer debt. The Church will not help you protect your credit rating – it will only help sustain you with the necessities of life for the short term until you get back on your feet. If the creditors will not negotiate with you, you might consider defaulting on the unpaid balance (this will be discussed with your budget counselor if you are unsure what the best course of action is). Cancel all subscriptions to magazines (except for church magazines), book clubs, etc.

If you have a car loan and you have more than a $2,000 balance remaining, consider selling it and getting less-expensive vehicle. Exceptions to this will be extremely rare so be prepared to be asked to sell it. If you have a mortgage payment or rent payment that exceeds a reasonable level, you must be prepared to sell your home and move into a lower-cost home or rental. After completing the items above, you must turn to family and even extended family for help. This help might include one or more of the following:Moving in with them if possible and getting rid of your residence.

Sharing their food or vehicle if possible.

Receiving financial aid from them (either IOU’s or charitable donations).After turning to all family members, if you still need assistance then turn to federal and state government programs (social security, Medicaid, FIA, food stamps, WIC, etc.) as well as community programs such as United Way (habitat for humanity, etc.).

2. No cable TV, satellite, purchasing video games, purchasing movies or fictional books or any other form of home entertainment that requires money. You must make use of the public library instead of purchasing these things.

3. Only one telephone service – if you have a cell phone then the land line must be cancelled and the cell phone service must be a plan that costs $50/mo or less.

4. No internet service that requires money (job searches can be done at the library where there is a fast and reliable internet connection). If you want email in your home, there are a couple of free services that you can sign up for.

5. Reduce utility bills by setting your thermostat at 68 degrees or lower in the winter and 78 degrees or warmer in the summer. Utility bills over $100 per month are unacceptable.

6. No eating at restaurants. This is a luxury and the Church provides food to sustain you through your financial struggle – the food from the Bishop’s Storehouse is all that you should be eating unless you receive free food from another source.

7. If you own a home and have a yard, you must have a vegetable garden to help supplement your food supply and also to learn skills in home food production, which helps lead to becoming more self sufficient. The Relief Society and Priesthood can help (if called upon) with the tilling, planting, nurturing, harvesting, and then canning or freezing.

8. The cleaning of the church building each week will be the sole responsibility of the welfare program. A team leader will be appointed to direct the efforts of the work crew each week and ALL welfare recipients are required to attend without exceptions (this means the entire family – all should participate). Elderly and disabled recipients will be given tasks by the team leader according to their abilities and should still attend each week.

9. You might be assigned by the branch presidency to help another member who is in need of assistance if we feel it is appropriate. If given an assignment, please accept it with a good spirit. We wouldn’t ask you to do something unless we felt it would benefit not only the recipient but you as well.

10. You must attend church each week, including Sunday School and Priesthood/Relief Society.

11. You must attend all of your assigned meetings such as RS Enrichment and Stake Priesthood Meetings.

12. You must remain 100% each month as a home teacher or a visiting teacher if you have been given assignments.

13. Each recipient will be given a budget counselor and is required to disclose all financial information to their assigned counselor and be willing to fully comply with the guidelines set forth by the counselor. The recipient is required to keep ALL receipts (even for a $.50 pack of gum at the gas station) while receiving assistance so that the budget counselor can get an accurate account of your spending each month.

14. All food orders will be given to the relief society president before the required date. Any exceptions to this must be worked out with the relief society president ahead of time. The relief society president will not be responsible for making sure you fill out the order form and get it turned in. If the recipient cannot pick up their food order, they must work it out ahead of time with someone else that is traveling to pick up food orders at the Stake Center. If the recipient fails to pick up the food and the truck driver must take it back to the storehouse, they will not receive food until the next food order. The relief society president will not purchase groceries to make up for a food order that was not picked up.

15. If you are given a check to pay a bill or fuel for your car, you must return all receipts promptly to either a member of the branch presidency or to one of the clerks. NOTE: this is required for financial auditing purposes and we must be able to provide a receipt for all checks that are issued by the Church.

16. You must keep and study the handout that you have been given and be prepared to give an update to your Branch President (or an assigned budget counselor if appropriate) at least monthly on the progress you are making toward achieving self reliance by growing in the following areas:Education – study scriptures and other good church books, GED, trade courses, apprenticeship, college education, etc.

Health – obey word of wisdom, exercise regularly, medical and dental care, personal hygiene, home cleanliness.Home storage – store, use, and know how to produce and prepare essential items.Resource management – Pay tithes and offerings, avoid debt, satisfy all of our promised obligations, be frugal, use time wisely, and serve others by sharing our time, talent, and resources with them. Social, emotional, and spiritual strength – Again, study the scriptures and other good church books, obey God’s commandments, be humble, pray frequently and fervently, strengthen relationships with family members, neighbors, and friends, shun things that are immoral or just not spiritual, work toward worthy goals, adjust to change and recover from misfortune.

17. You must actively work toward increasing your income. Your budget counselor will work out a plan with you to receive weekly progress updates so he/she can help you better. These updates might be in the form of a list of all applications or resumes submitted, a list of follow-up phone calls or visits, etc.

That is way messed up!

If I needed it and had to go through all of that, I just wouldn't.

What a Nazi bishop. Somebody getting welfare already feels like crap, what a way to make them feel even crappier.

Can't think of anyone who would qualify for this Nazi scheme...

Me thinks most of the homeless are not even qualified...

Gotta pay for that Jeezus Mall...

Brother Breedum

I call BS on this. I know the church isn't too helpful, but this seems like something someone would right saying it is real to make the church look bad.

My brother went through this when he lost his job. He has been a 100% tithe payer his entire life, and when he went to his bishop for a little assistance, this is basically the line the bish fed him too.

You're lucky to have never seen or experienced it.

I respect that. Unfortunately, I have no way of confirming to you or myself that this is legit - I just copied and pasted from an e-mail I got this afternoon. If it's not legit, then you have my apology for its lack of authenticity, but my friend hasn't made up anything like this in the past. Your guess is as good as mine.

For whatever reason, the last 4 letters of my screen name got cut off in my previous post.

This is the Real Don Steele...

My ex-mo brother tried to get Church assistance recently for 4 foster kids who were nearly homeless. The Morg thumbed their nose at the opportunity.

The local Baptist Church came to the rescue.

Fuckin Cult

I have a small garden. It's a luxury. It would be much cheaper to go buy the produce at the farmers market.

Fertilizer, water, seeds, plants, and garden tools are not cheap.

If I were a working mother with children, I wouldn't have the time and energy to have a garden. The time and energy to maintain a garden is no small thing.

Mia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a small garden. It's a luxury. It would be
> much cheaper to go buy the produce at the farmers
> market.
>
> Fertilizer, water, seeds, plants, and garden tools
> are not cheap.
>
> If I were a working mother with children, I
> wouldn't have the time and energy to have a
> garden. The time and energy to maintain a garden
> is no small thing.


Mia is right! I grow tomatoes every summer because there's nothing better than a home-grown tomato. But store bought vegetables are cheaper. The canning equipment is expensive, plus the time......

Nobody has to make this up. I've already read bits and pieces of it from other people here, this just has it all in one list together, with that extra touch... All welfare recipients, no matter how "elderly and disabled ... will be given tasks by the team leader according to their abilities and should still attend each week."

Oh, lol about the garden... No mormon I knew used fertilizer. At the most they used composted grass clippings. I never thought home grown anything was better than store bought until quite late in life. Our garden food was fresher, but not any tastier, if anything it was usually smaller and less flavorful. The seeds were used, harvested and saved from one set of starter seeds for 15 years or more. The corn gradually un-hybridized itself more and more until it was only putting out four rows of kernals. The strawberries mutated into three-lobed monsters, and that was okay, they were the BIGGEST strawberries ever, but they looked pretty funny...

Imagine if govt welfare was ran this way... less debt

Don't worry, govt welfare recipients are demeaned and humiliated enough to suit you, because it IS run this way, except that the govt doesn't have to tell recipients to stop paying creditors and do without luxuries like cable and magazines, because they've already had to liquidate all their assets and don't get enough welfare money to pay for any of those things. And instead of cleaning chapels, they have to clean public buildings.
Of course, corporate welfare, which is a much bigger source of our debt, is no problem, right?

We would have a lot of malnurished children running around like some tinpot African dictatorship.

This bishop needs to be unemployeed for a while, and given the same rules. We have been unemployeed more than once. After one Christmas the RS pres. came over to take a food order, found my husband had paid for an art class for me as my gift. That was our last food order, no discussion. I didn't get the chance to tell her he sold an expensive rifle to provide Christmas that year. Can anyone explain compassion to these people?

When we needed our church's help this last year, there were no questions asked. They gave us all that we needed and then gave us $300 when my daughter ended up in the hospital to cover missing work and they gas and food costs going into the city. They have been such a good example of Christian love, without one thing expected in return. We even begged to pay them back and they said no.

Our ward in Norfolk, VA several years ago had a bishop just like this. Two families with small children were denied help. A true Christian church is not going to have lists like this. And thus we know....it is a cult.

Oh, I forgot to mention that the $300 was not asked for, but just given.

The trouble is that no one knows how a ward will treat them until they move there and usually can't move again to get out from under a bad situation.

I can't vouch for all of these, but I do know that, when my son and daugher-in-law and infant went to the bishop for help, said bishop refused him because I was not a full tithe payer. I guess the sins of the parents apply. We've all left The Cult since, so I guess they showed us who was boss.

You know after I walked out of the church I noticed a big difference in my budget...I wasn't spending so much on gas!

I had to go to church on Sunday, one trip, then on tuesday I had two round trips to church..cub scouts.
Then on Wednesday I had two round trips again because my teenagers attended mutual.

Now there was no one else who lived near me. I was on the far side of the ward boundary. The TSCC was trying to include the "poor neighborhood" with the 'rich neighborhood" so the rich could take care of the (undeserving apparantly) "Poor".

Try to get someone to commit to getting your family to and from church for every activity they're "supposed" to be at when it's a ten mile round trip out of their way!

The miles ate up my gas...I would have been required to go clean the chapel every week according to this and attend all of my meetings on 'gas'. Never mind a tiny civic could not carry all of my family and my van was paid for in full....I guess the rich can have their big suburbans, Explorers, Navigators and other gas hogs with four wheel drive off road capacity and "protection" for their precious family of two kids...but the single mother with four children would certainly be doing without...

And since when is used 'electronic' equipment worth anything? Everyone sells their stuff on craigs list for cheap in this economy! You couldn't get ten bucks for your play station so why sell it???

And how dare you decide to micromanage what I can read? And my IRA which I'd be lucky to have is to make sure I'm not on welfare when I'm old! Also to cash out an Ira there is a 40% penalty at least....would the Gdmnnn tSCC like to make up the difference? No, they want to shop at the mall, be publicly worshiped as rock stars as they leave their expensive condos in their bullet proof limos on their way to the airport to enjoy their family vacation at the TSCC owned Resort hotel in Hawaii and they went 'first class' all the way!!!

Wouldn't they hate it if a 'welfare' recipient showed up at conference with some empty take home containers and asked if they could have some of the leftovers from their lunch buffet??? You know, the one they eat at between sessions of conf. with the ice sculputure?

I'm shocked that he thinks you can get a job on a library computer. If you are seriously looking for work, you do not want to have to rely on public computers to do your research and communicate with employers.

Having home WiFi is critical to finding a job these days. God bless our libraries, and I'm glad they are there for the poor, but if every unemployed person used them to look for work, you would have to book an appointment a week in advance to check your email.

Libraries are great resources for finding work, but they should not be your primary internet source if you can help it at all. You can get cable, phone and internet bundled for $100/month, so having these in your home even when unemployed is beyond reasonable.

Ohh my gosh!! That is so shi;/y!! I'm an exmo and these requirements just burn me up!!! It sounds like someting the Morg would do!!!

Just to add a little more,,,I too have sooo much more money left over and i converted myself to the bible only ( no organized religion) , read it and started to commit myself to following the teachings of Jesus, i have had enormous blessings! Much more than when i was Mormon. I even got a call from the people i payed rent to and they said i could now live in this georgeous house rent free! And then my five year old found a rare coin in the back yard.All in one months time I've been blessed financially more than ever in my life!! I am soo happy I left stupod church!!!

Perhaps members should have a similar list of requirements for the church to fulfil before they give their tithes.

No shopping malls, sell the hunting preserves and the cultural centers, sell the bullet-proof Audi, no more trips abroad.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps members should have a similar list of
> requirements for the church to fulfil before they
> give their tithes.
>
> No shopping malls, sell the hunting preserves and
> the cultural centers, sell the bullet-proof Audi,
> no more trips abroad.

+1 Summer

That was my thought exactly. It would be a great thread to start. The first item on the list should be that TSCC provide full disclosure (including documentation) of where the money goes/how the money is spent.

I see a lot of this as false economy. if you sell all your assets for a low second hand price to cover costs you then may actually dig yourself into a longer poverty cycle eg, selling your computer or car may actually make it harder to get employment because of lack of access to job information or education. When unemployed you should be relived of home teaching duties, callings or cleaning duties so that you sink your efforts into job or education seeking. Seriously if you were doing ALL that is required in that letter I doubt you would have time or the resources to work!

Pretty standard church policy. Perhaps the garden is not required in some city wards and branches. The rest is standard fare.

Default on your debts if your creditors won't negotiate, screw them...

Exhaust every possible form of government assistance, screw the taxpayer...

Mooch off all your family, friends, and neighbors, burn all your bridges...

But NEVER consider cutting back your tithing!

I admit I find this hard to believe if only for the reason that if such a letter were to be made public, it would have the potential to mushroom into a massive dose of bad PR for TSCC.

But if you say your friend is trustworthy, then, well - wow. What a piece of work these 'requirements' are.

My favorite part is the requirement to essentially liquidate all retirement assets: 401Ks, IRAs, Roth IRAs. Forget about the significant tax consequences of such a move. If the Morg wants to ensure that the individual who is asking for assistance will likely continue to need assistance throughout their life, and especially when they are retirement age and older, let's by all means require them to deep-six the nest egg.

I admit that the above is the main part of the letter that makes me think it's not legit. The church couldn't possibly be that A) Stupid - telling someone to liquidate retirement assets is incredibly counterproductive for ensuring that they will be able to remain a tithe-payer in retirement and beyond and B) Exceptionally mean-spirited and a potential source of incredibly bad PR if it became known. I believe that even in bankruptcy, legitimate retirement assets are protected from creditors.

I suppose if the letter is real, its sole purpose might be to scare the shite out of anybody asking for assistance to basically stop asking. I doubt they have the time and personnel resources to enforce any of it.

All I remember from the 70s was that my ex-mo dad was required to work in the bishop's warehouse in exchange for our family receiving food assistance for a particularly rough year (mom was still mormon).

There are serious penalities for digging into your IRA. First of all, if it is not a Roth, you have to pay your taxes immediately plus a 15% penalty if you are under age 55 (I believe). That means to get $1000 out, you have to pay 25% in taxes plus 15% in penalties, so you get $600. You also have to sell the asset that is attached to the money. If you sold in 2009, after the Great Crash of 2008, you would be selling at 60% of the market high. So your $1000 in 2008 is now $600, then pay 40% in taxes and penalties and you are left with $360 to pay your bills.

By the time you found work, you would have exhausted your retirement funds. If you are 50, that means you will not retire until you are 70 or later, unless you quit paying tithing and catch up fast.

frogdogs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I admit I find this hard to believe if only for
> the reason that if such a letter were to be made
> public, it would have the potential to mushroom
> into a massive dose of bad PR for TSCC.
>
> But if you say your friend is trustworthy, then,
> well - wow. What a piece of work these
> 'requirements' are.
>
> My favorite part is the requirement to essentially
> liquidate all retirement assets: 401Ks, IRAs, Roth
> IRAs. Forget about the significant tax
> consequences of such a move. If the Morg wants to
> ensure that the individual who is asking for
> assistance will likely continue to need assistance
> throughout their life, and especially when they
> are retirement age and older, let's by all means
> require them to deep-six the nest egg.
>
> I admit that the above is the main part of the
> letter that makes me think it's not legit. The
> church couldn't possibly be that A) Stupid -
> telling someone to liquidate retirement assets is
> incredibly counterproductive for ensuring that
> they will be able to remain a tithe-payer in
> retirement and beyond and B) Exceptionally
> mean-spirited and a potential source of incredibly
> bad PR if it became known. I believe that even in
> bankruptcy, legitimate retirement assets are
> protected from creditors.
>
> I suppose if the letter is real, its sole purpose
> might be to scare the shite out of anybody asking
> for assistance to basically stop asking. I doubt
> they have the time and personnel resources to
> enforce any of it.
>
> All I remember from the 70s was that my ex-mo dad
> was required to work in the bishop's warehouse in
> exchange for our family receiving food assistance
> for a particularly rough year (mom was still
> mormon).

but they still want their 10 percent.

Gimmee gimmee greedy corporation.

When, oh when, will people realise that they're being ripped off.

Briggy

So when you're home alone, with no entertainment, no money for gas, (I guess you're walking in -15 degrees weather to visit your assignments), you'll be reading books, (can't afford to go "further education" with no money).

I guess a person will have to insist that if they live in a "cardboard box" apartment, they'll need their landlords to put insulation in the walls so they don't freeze at 68 degrees.

Now what if you don't overcome difficulties let's say, because you're on permanent social security for permanent disability for things that can't be cured like; blindness, narcolepsy, etc. And are considered "unemployable," how do they anticipate your recovering or gaining more income and recovering from misfortune?

Hm, challenging I say.

Glad we left the church last summer. We fell behind in half our bills trying to keep up with tithing alone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 09:25AM by partymxman.

but balk at many of the things on this list. I have gone years without enough of or even the basic necessities like food, clothing, medical care, entertainment, etc. I have not gone to a movie since YBU, so I miss many cultural references, have gone years without books, and had to volunteer for admission to concerts. Cable has always been out of the question, and my TV is the same one I had in HS. I rarely eat out meaning I go years without eating at a restaurant or getting take out. Cell phones are great, but you don't need one. I had a garden, but thanks to the cult it was taken from me.

A lot of these requirements are unreasonable for the elderly, disabled, and people who do not have time on their hands for other reasons - those looking for work, the working poor who spend more of their precious time working lower wage jobs, but still cannot make ends meet, etc.

In other words, there are many people are much worse off than someone who is temporarily out of work. Some of the sacrifices they ask here are simply how others already have to live. I don't see that as unreasonable, because if you still have your health you will do fine when working again. Your losses will be temporary, not a way of life.

The problem with the cult is they ask these sacrifices of the well off, but they ask them of the poorest who they are supposed to be helping. My cousin used to say you cannot bleed a turnip. The poorest cannot sacrifice much more; they are already suffering. TSCC thinks of ingenious ways to NOT help the ones who do need it most. One time a budget person lied about my budget so they could refuse help. Another time a so-called leader was accused of something they know he did not do in order to put him on the defensive, and get him to fall in line, and not be so generous. They do this to the poorest of the poor in order to keep the costs down for SLC.

Some were decent, but that was rare, and actually was after I left, but before I resigned. I told them I no longer believed in gawd.

Generally TSCC is miserly with everyone (except their favorite business contractors), and it is obvious with their billions coming in, and vast business, and land interests, that very little of this goes towards helping people in need.

People can save themselves a lot of pain, and suffering by refusing to jump through their hoops. The sheeple think TSCC has the lard's true welfare system. Not even close. Government agencies, the Red Cross, Catholic Community Services, and so on, are professionals who do not degrade people who need help. TSCC more often than not is degrading. Most of my so-called leaders were abusive. Their church brainwashing requirement is wrong. The "moral" advice is wrong. It does not take a poor person long to learn there is no gawd, no "blessings", no tithing miracles. A fixed income is a fixed income. No gawds will make that better no matter how good you are, and the sheeple will abuse you, and steal what little you have left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 09:43AM by atheist&happy:-).

For the person that commented about getting help. Cool for you. You obviously had a really kind Bishop. From what I have learned, it is up to the Bishop to follow these guidelines.

We asked for help and got a reduced food order once.

The Bishop we had before we left was completely without compassion and this would be so up his ally. He was upset when we said we couldn't clean the church, (last year), due to arthritis, bad back, blindness, carpel tunnel, bad knees, bursitis in hips and such. He claimed we should still be doing something to clean. He had his relief society gal, come over, she grabbed the list from my wife, had us do a two week budget, went through both and compared them and remade a list of what we could get. Talk about demeaning, humiliating, upsetting, rude, cold...

The people at the county food bank are so sweet, helpful, never make a person feel horrible, they even say they missed ya if you miss a week. And they are volunteers from the local community.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 09:52AM by partymxman.

In other words, don't get into finacial difficulties or your life is no longer in any way your own.

That BP is way out of line, unless the CHI or the welfare instructions have drastically changed in the last five years (which is when I was familiar with them). When I had a calling wherein I dealt with many people who were receiving church welfare, we were given strict instruction that "worthiness" or church attendance were in no way linked to receiving aid. The stake leaders were VERY clear on this; in fact, Bishop Pigpen got in a heap of trouble for lecturing a sister who was living with her common-law husband and threatening to kick her off church welfare.

I am glad I never asked.

No, ty
Give up my internet? Naaw



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 11:06AM by mindlight.