So this is to help me say what I feel without all the difficulties that abound without being anonymous. First of all, I'm a jerk. I went outside the marriage. I broke the part of the contract about fidelity. We are seeing a marriage counselor. It helps to a point. She wanted to work things out. I agreed to try to work it out too.
Some more back ground. I married for sex. Or dating years were emotional roller coasters. There were two parts to that girl, one that would say the right things as far as "all righteousness" was concerned, the other was why she could not do all the gospel stuff like be n time for meetings, do callings, etc. so I bought into the talk and thought that I would be able to have sex as a Married person, and she would then live the righteous way she always intended. I had been home from the mission for a few years, and went the rounds with the bishop about wanking, and was tired of the guilt, shame, rinse, repeat part of church life. I wanted to be a good mormon and have sex.

Once we are married, we rarely are intimate. She is controlling, wants to pray in the middle of it, cries if I get to insistent on what I want, equates masterbation to adultery, will not reciprocate oral sex, feels guilt about sex, just to name a few issues. Then church is weird. She draws near to it with her lips, but her actions cause a bit of dissonance. She wants to only go on dates to the temple. Or house is a disaster area and she gets mad at me when I try to schedule with the home teachers to come over, she seemed to have a hard time listening to me which is very subjective. We had communication problems. I perceived that her needs were to be met above all. You'll have to trust me on that one. There were many little things that get said that kept me in this suspended place waiting for the issues she had to be resolved. I found that when I tried to address problems with her, I would end up having to say I'm sorry, before I could ever sleep again. And this went n for a many years.

Eventually, I had an extra marital interest. And eventually my wife found out about it. Church crap not with standing, I lost my church glasses I used to see the world. We got counseling and are into that quite a ways. We still periodically have these weird conversations where all the crap from the past comes to the forefront, and I'm saying sorry to all but killing JFK. Sex is still a thing she feels she has come a ways on, but when you have to say a prayer before hand, I don't see the progress, and I'd be saying sorry some more to address it with her in terms that are meaningful to me. I guess I'm tired of being in this constant state of "sorry". There is probably more to life than being sorry. I still cannot imagine it. I go to church as a fit to her. I endure that circus for the first hour. And it causes my blood to boil with each week. She thinks Ill repent of my apostate ways, because having committed the sin next to murder, no wonder I cannot feel the spirit or Christs love in my life -- her reasoning not mine.

I am so fucking tired of having to say sorry. To me, marriage is always having to be sorry. And I see that that is a shame. There is more to this story, and her perspective as well. I'm a jerk, and forever will be I suppose. I just hope there is no afterlife. There must be some way to escape this hell.

What's keeping you married? From what you've written, your marriage does not sound rewarding on any level.

If I had a boyfriend who behaved as your wife does, I would not keep him around for any length of time at all. Life is too short. There are too many nice, decent people out there who are willing to put as much effort into pleasing you as you are willing to put into pleasing them.

I agree with Summer. Stop acting like you're going to live forever and grab life by the short & curlies..

TotalAnonimity4Now Wrote:
> There must be some way to escape this hell.

Isn't that what divorce is for?

Why are you staying in your marriage? (Not meant to be a rhetorical/ judgmental question - I'm genuinely curious.)

Although I did stay married for 18+ years to an on and off drug addict ...
If in your position I would have left much sooner

I am sorry
No one should spend their life being sorry, and certainly not if the sex isn't good - that is where you bond

Best :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 07:27PM by mindlight.

Isn't that what marriage is for? I know very few happily married people. The ones I know piss and moan and suffer and make each other miserable because they don't believe in divorce. There are only two things in life that are permanent - being a parent and killing someone. Marriage is not permanent, unless you make it so.

Time to go TotalAnonimity4Now.

You need to get divorced and it seems that 100% of the others have said the same thing.

Your marriage does sound like HELL. My gay/straight marriage was better than your's is by a LONG SHOT.

When my husband and I first got married he would say i'm sorry for the tiniest things. It irritated me.

Finally I sat him down and told him to STOP apologizing for breathing. I wasn't holding that against him. He looked stunned. I think it was a habit he had developed with his first wife.

I expect sincere apologies when they are needed, but constant 'i'm sorries' are so meaningless. I don't know why someone would require that of another person. Well, other than enjoying watching them constantly grovel over nothing. Not only that, but it makes a person look very insecure.

The outcome may be divorce, but if I were you I would stop saying you were sorry. That is, unless you REALLY are. A constant stream of 'i'm sorry' makes it meaningless. If you ARE that sorry, you need a divorce ASAP. Nobody can live like that and stay sane.

Why does she still want you when she is so disapproving of everything you do? Do her a favor and let her see what she'll be missing.

Marriage is for people who love each other and care about each other, not to have a dedicated emotional punching bag all your own.

What you have is not what marriage is supposed to be. It's not what I have in my marriage, and we're at almost seven years, it just keeps getting better. But me and my husband are weird, a perfect match, and plenty of people find both of us off putting.

If you don't have kids, dump her. Because she's treating you like a 16 year old learning what not to do. I wouldn't dignify that with the word divorce, just dump her.
(Obviously, legally a divorce is necessary, just trying to turn a phrase.)

Spouses should understand each other at a minimum, and that goes both ways. Caring for and encouraging each other instead of breaking each other down and making each other miserable.



The above is IMO, and what I would do if I were in your shoes. Be sure to tell her how you feel and that you are thinking divorce. Maybe she will have a very last minute change of heart. You messed up, but it can't hang over your head forever.

WinksWinks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What you have is not what marriage is supposed to
> be. It's not what I have in my marriage, and
> we're at almost seven years, it just keeps getting
> better. But me and my husband are weird, a
> perfect match, and plenty of people find both of
> us off putting.
================================================
Yeesh. Are we sisters?

25 years in my case, and right now we seem to be stuck in the "for worse" mode... but I would rather do for worse woth my Loved One than for better with anyone else in the world!

And, IMO, that's how marriage is supposed to be.

She obviously isn't happy either, I would say time to let her go find her PPP... (Perfect Peter Priesthood) and you can find a Real Imperfect but loving partner.

First, you do yourself a disservice by labeling yourself as a "jerk." It seems that you've adopted a term for yourself in order to dismiss your wife's demands for incessant apologies: if it's in your nature to exhibit bad behavior the why should you have to say sorry for what you can't control? They fact is, though, you're just human, and humans sometimes behave selfishly and are prone to emotional outbursts.

Your wife feels that you've broken the marriage contract that you both agreed to, and she's right. However, if you and she choose to remain married then you have to agree to new terms. You are not the same person you were when the two of you first married, and although she may feel betrayed by your apostasy, it is not fair for her to expect you to not act according to the dictates of your own conscience. She does not get to decide how you live your life. That is your privilege.

If she doesn't want to be married to the person you are now, if she cannot accept that you have different beliefs and standards of personal conduct than you previously held, then it will do you both well to separate. DO NOT APOLOGIZE FOR BEING HONEST AND TRUE TO YOURSELF. You are allowed to learn, you are allowed to change, you are allowed to grow. It is not fair for your wife to stifle you.

At the same time, please be compassionate to her. You know what she believes, and you know the kind of mind-fuck Mormonism perpetrates on its adherents. Yes, she's an adult, and yes, she makes her own decisions; however, her whole life is filtered through the church.

Do what you need to be authentic to yourself, just try not to do it at the detriment of others.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 08:15PM by homo sapiens maximus.

He's bought in to her label, which is manifesting itself as self-loathing. I bet he's a great guy and she's more like a controlling, shrewish, harpie.

Anytime you label someone, that's called "defining" and that is a control tactic. The Silent Treatment™ is a control tactic. Passive-aggression is a control tactic. Getting someone to constantly walk on eggshells so they don't piss you off is a control tactic. It sounds to me, from what you've posted, that your wife is doing a bang-up fine job at controlling you.

I, too, would like to pile on and recommend divorce. She needs therapy and she needs distance from the control of the church in order for the two of you to have a healthy relationship. You didn't marry because you thought she'd make a great partner for you, so I see no reason to stay. Doesn't even sound like you're best friends. Go find someone who values you because you are a great guy, not because you've jumped through all the hoops and complied with all the ruleds.

you have two paths in my opinion.

1. divorce, don't be afraid of it, it is often the right solution even when kids are involved.

2. stay together and help her see the light when it comes to church stuff. Best for kids if you can truly help this happen.but is the hardest path for sure. I do not believe you will find happiness if you stay together and she stays in the church.

I was faced with nearly the same decision for much the same reason just a few years ago, several kids, etc, etc.

this is now a focus point in your life, the thing about focus points is you can use them to steer your life in the direction you want it to go, what you want, not what the church or others around you want. This will lead you to happiness.

it is time for an assessment, do you love her? does she love you? that is something you really have to decide for yourself. If there are kids involved you also need to decide how important to you both keeping the family together is.

answer these honestly, completely, at this time you both need to learn to be completely honest with each other. brutally honest, my wife was very controlling too, and so uptight about sex that eventually I looked elsewhere. It happens, and yes you screwed up. but the church has also put you both in a postion of judging each other and of self judgement that is NOT conducive to forgiveness.

You need to tell her now that you do not believe in the church anymore, and clearly why, divorce needs to be an option on the table. that is the only way she will understand the seriousness of your position. If you are a good provider and not a flake you will have in your favor her need for security. You should be clear that you will fill that need.

You need to tell her what you really think about your sex life and be honest. But don't just yell, explain the feelings you have, listen to her feelings. remember it doesn't matter shit if the other person deserves to feel that way or not, everyone has a right to feeling. They might be from a misunderstanding or from an actual action. if they are from an action and you are sorry, say so. if you aren't really sorry then don't say so. Allow her the same latitude.

get a counselor that is NOT LDS, insist on that (the LDS ones will color their recommendations and make the disconnecting from the church harder and you won't get satisfactory results, also do not use the bishop)

It boils down to learning to be real to each other, then deciding if you can each live with the other real person, faults and all.

I took the second path, it took over a year to help my wife see the fact that the church was a fraud, once she did, she was able to drop a lot of pretense and learn to enjoy sex (girls learning to 'rub one out' is the most recommended way for them to find out how to enjoy sex, definitely prohibited by the morg)

once she enjoyed sex, she realized that the church had been holding her back from that incredible feeling and that reinforced her trust in me (which was really hard to win back)

once we got the church out of the way we could be so much more honest with each other, we learned how to say yes, no or maybe to a request and live with it. Porn and masturbation could be ways to handle different sex drives. When you did something for the other person that you really didn't want to but did it out of love it was understood and appreciated instead of expected.

end of the story, it was a long haul and not easy but now...

happily married 4 years later, we compromise on somethings and find our own way on others, but it is now a bond of mutual respect, not of CK expectations and it is so so so much more rewarding!!!

silver lining for me? I'm a perv and we got to do some kinky fantasy things that even JS would be proud of lol :D

good luck with your choice!

The church screws up sex for every member. Oh yeah, keep your garments on if you are truly faithful!

I feel so sorry for you, I really do. It's anightmare when someome holds you in emotional hell. Get out, if you can...what am I saying? Of course you can, you are a human, and you--YOU--make your choices. The biggest improvement I made to my life and happiness was to release myself form the grip of a cult that was in it for itself, and from TMB dad who abandoned me and stepmoter who shoved me to the side so everything my father had could be hers.
So sorry, man. Keep reading here, it helps.

It seems like there might be something really wrong.

Praying DURING? Is she dealing with some emotional scars from abuse?

Maybe depression?

Mental illness?

Maybe she should been seen by a doctor and have a physical and some basic tests run? (Hormone levels and such).

Just know that nobody deserves to be shamed constantly for past mistakes. If she can't get over infidelity, I'd understand. Sometimes that's a dealbreaker. But she needs to let you go if that's the case. It sounds a bit like she's using that as just another stick to beat you with.

It sounds to me that she is probably a narcissist. I was married to one for 20 yrs and am now divorced. Study narcissism and see if she is.

If she is, then I don't see any future for you. The problem with them is that they lack empathy. At the beginning of your relationship she was probably controlling and you were young and probably even subconsiously enjoyed the battle with her. But as you get older, for me it took 10 years to realize that I was tired of it, there was no chemistry, as there can't be with someone without empathy.

They are always right, in their own minds, but they keep you around because they need someone to service THEM. They are not interested in servicing you. After all they have no empathy. They won't end an argument until they are satisfied you understand them, they don't want to understand you. They might love marriage, but not marriage to you. They don't love the person, but like the institution. They want you to provide for them, have companionship with them, help them raise kids, and have sex but only when they want it. You are there for her, she isn't there for you.

They are extremely good at conning you, to get you to like them. It is all an act, as they don't feel, they act. They live for ego gratification, and need you to constantly praise them, as they can't feel good by themselves.

They are not into pleasure and fun, but looking good to others to gratify ego. Mormonism seems to make normal people narcissitic, but turns narnsissist completely screwed up.

I would like to offer you hope, but I have never seen a narcissist change. After all they are superior and you are the problem. lol.

Praying *during* sex sounds to me like a "please make it stop" ploy.

If the person saying the prayer really was enjoying sex, she/he would not pull such a stunt.

So, basic conclusion #1: your significant other does not enjoy sex with you.

On the other hand, a marriage license is not a license to demand or expect oral sex. Really, you should have conversed about sexual preferences before marriage. Some people, male and female, really like oral sex. For others oral sex is a take-or-leave-it part of sexual play, and is not a primary concern. A smaller group of people may actually be turned off by oral sex. You do not get to decide for your partner.

Basic conclusion #2: You like oral sex, and your spouse has an iffy or changing perspective on oral sex, a perspective that does not include enjoying pleasuring you with oral sex. It's unlikely that you will change this attitude in an adult. Your expectation that oral sex is a given once the marriage license is signed is a sign of disrespect for your partner's wishes. It's possible that your wife only dislikes pleasuring you with oral sex, and would be perfectly happy to engage in oral sex with someone else. Your marriage is so fucked up that you really have no way of knowing.

Basic conclusion #3: You can't mitigate the influence of mormonism in most mormon marriages without first cleansing the partners of mormonism. Get both partners out of mormonism and you might have a chance. Failing that, get yourself out of the marriage.

If her prayers during sex consist of "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!" take that as a compliment.

Can't say I've ever heard of anyone needing to pray before or during sex. Just the thought of that makes me sick.

It seems like there is no one guilty party here, as you've readily admitted. However, it does seem that there's a great deal of incompatibility there.

Perhaps you should start plotting your exit from that marriage.

It makes me so sad to see how this church ruins relationships before they even start! I am married to another never mo, we have our sexual ups and downs but, dammit, 99% of the time we are having some good, anything goes times. Sex is so important in a marriage, people are told to often that it's not or just see it as minimized. If you don't have kids I am on the get divorced couch, find a fun woman who you are compatible with on all levels and have fun!