ok so if they slipped up and had an affair/sex with someone could you over look it and stay together?

I have this crazy fear that its going to happen to me in my marriage at some point. We both never had sex til marriage and are still young. It seems so hard to make sure it "never happens" you know> It almost seems like it would be easier to just not care about it as much. Does that make sense?

Not that I think it would but it might be less pressure if I didn't let it bother me anymore. In the church its about being perfect and never making a mistake. And now i don't know if there is really a point to being perfect...? Not that I would cheat--wouldnt want to--but why do we make it such a big deal like the end all be all? Could you forgive and make it work or would it be a deal breaker? Sorry so long and typos

Just as long as I'm still in the rotation ;)

The thought is so foreign, so outlandish, to me that I cannot really say *what* I would do. Hopefully I will never know.

I see this and keep thinking Would you give a mouse a cookie?

ha ha doxi. I don't know why I'm so worried about it? I have reoccuring dreams and fears even tho there's no good reason for it. I need to shake it somehow.

ok so if they slipped up and had an affair/sex with someone could you over look it and stay together?

If it was a thing that 'just happened' perhaps. If it was ongoing and involved lying and deceit probably not. Well definatly not, my first wife pulled that one on me as a way to leave and cause as much hurt as possible. If someone had an affair and were truly sorry then I think one could forgive and get on with the relationship, but things would likely never be the same.

I like telling people I'm thinking of doing a reality type show of the life of Solomon and his 1000 wives and concubines and ask if they think it would need to be rated x. Most say yes. Even being with each wife/concubine once a year would mean multiple women a day.

The old testament is very lax about sex, even kinda sick. People get offended if I talk about Sampson(?) Cutting off 200 guy's penis skins to bring back in exchange for a wife. The story is that the king asked for 100 foreskins but Sampson went and got 200! .... Jesus's own family line included Rahab the prostitute, right?

The new testament can be interpreted as being more restrictive even to the point of Jesus saying to look on someone with lust is sinful etc. In my opinion, Jesus and the new testament put such a heavy burden on people trying to work and earn their way to heaven that we realize that we can't do it without his saving grace. It wasn't about taking the sexual law and other laws tons higher level and leaving them in place. It was showing that the law will crush us and we can't do it on our own without Jesus.

So why are we so restricted with monogamy and sexual rules?

Check out this article: http://www.libchrist.com/bible/howsexsin.html

The solution: Never do it yourself but always keep forgiveness ready if it ever happens with your spouse. Do not expect it but do forgive. Do not invite it by telling your spouse it is OK in advance.

Once you are willing to question your religion, it is obvious to question all the 'facts' of the world, one of them is the idea that people are only happy in monogamis relationships.

the origins of this concept started with the later judéo Christian religions. love and relationships were far more fluid in the pagan religions of the past.

so often we are saddled by so many preconceptions of our society of what is deemed right and wrong, and really these are just somebodies ideas from a while ago.

What you and your spouse decide is ok, is ok. simple as that. what ruins a marriage isn't infidelity, it is loss of trust and honesty with each other.

Forgiveness is actually easier outside of religious context. Trust, honesty, acceptance, and open communication thrive without the undercurrent of fear, guilt, shame, and judgementalism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2013 10:40AM by diapason.

I like this. Outside of religion, we can accept we are all sexual beings and our individual sexuality is different. A straying person is not evil and generally does not mean harm. Hormones and the chemical reactions involved in sexual attraction are complex and can't be tied up with a little white bow during a temple ceremony.

My husband and I are very honest with each other. 40+ years is a long time. There will be times when one of us is feeling more sexual than the other for a length of time, as there is no reason we will magically escape what almost all other couples experience. And, affairs happen in a majority of relationships. So, you learn to accept it before hand. Work on your jealousy. Be open and honest with each other. And if it happens, be prepared to understand your partner doesn't love you less nor isn't less attracted.

This human experience is so much more complicated than we like to believe. Allow others around you to experience it and forgive them when they aren't perfect.

Amen!

Xmo7, has your spouse given you any reason to doubt him/her? If you are actually having recurring dreams, that seems like a red flag to me. Personally, my spouse has never cheated, but did at one point did go online to look for prostitutes and actually texted some. That caused enough pain that I almost ended the marriage right there. I was severely depressed for weeks and still not over it. I don't think I could recommend staying with a spouse that cheated. The marriage will never be the same. I don't think you will ever really be able to fully trust your spouse. Just my 2 cents.

Not sure if red flags or being over worried b/c the church makes us patrol our husbands so much. I didn't know he ~ever~ looked at porn until my disaffection w/the church. Now I find out he was looking the whole time we were going to church.

not that big of a deal in itself but I wonder how he could be so damn good at hiding that from me! it makes me question if he could keep an affair a secret.

He is a great husband, friend, partner, father etc and we really have a good sex life. I just worry b/c i wonder when the ball will drop and we can't hold it all together anymore? we are still so young and eternity is a long ass time!

Shouldn't STDs/STIs/VDs be a part of this discussion? Beyond the trust issue, I'd wonder if I should always practice "safely" with my spouse after that. That could be an intimacy killer.

There have been a few posters passing through here that lamented about the "extra gift" their spouse/partner gave them.

Or, if I'm over-worrying this issue, be free to tell me....

Sex is waaayyy over-rated...

Good Book To Read: 'The Throw-Away Marriage' (or something along those lines)

monogamy is an ideal which is not realistic

humans are gonna do what they do best: screw

I do not agree. Though we may be drawn to others, monogamy is best for a society. Among other things, stability is important in raising children and children learn love by watching their parents. The key is loving one's spouse regardless and without condition. The idea in moism that marriage is only to be kept if the man not only sticks to the vows with his wife, but "honors his priesthood" is inherently destructive of the union. The concept that one may be forgiven ONLY through "proper authority" and then only upon "repentance" and then after probation of other discipline, is destructive. Love which is conditional is not love at all. Forgiveness is not just a benefit for the person forgiven but for the one forgiving. Moreover, real forgiveness also forgets the transgression, not merely temporarily putting it aside, but permanently forgetting and never reminding the person who was forgiven.

The expression: "I can forgive, but I won't forget" is one which will never restore happiness to anyone nor heal a relationship.

If one's spouse transgresses, it is not something to continue holding above them after "forgiving", but leaving totally out of one's thoughts, and without any precondition.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2013 11:36AM by rhgc.

If you just think of it as mormon church sanctioned polygamy you will be fine.

And for those who say no, you wouldn't, you never know what you will do until you are in the situation.

A lifetime of commitment, friendship, and partnership means a lot more than one time sex. Yes, it would probably be painful but I honestly don't think it would bother me too much - but it's hard to know until it happens. In my mind an affair is typically an indication of an unhealthy marriage (certainly not always the case) and could actually be a positive wake up call.

In some ways I wish my wife would have an affair. Her moral high ground, Molly Mormon prudishness would be destroyed and I think our marriage would be better off for it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2013 12:27PM by bc.

interesting bc. I totally get what you mean though. I almost want him to do it so that I can see its not the end of the world and there are worse things to happen. not that i actually *want* him to do it but I just want the suspense of it to go away. :?

bc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lifetime of commitment, friendship, and
> partnership means a lot more than one time sex.
> Yes, it would probably be painful but I honestly
> don't think it would bother me too much - but it's
> hard to know until it happens. In my mind an
> affair is typically an indication of an unhealthy
> marriage (certainly not always the case) and could
> actually be a positive wake up call.
>
> In some ways I wish my wife would have an affair.
> Her moral high ground, Molly Mormon prudishness
> would be destroyed and I think our marriage would
> be better off for it.

Yeah, but only in some ways. Because the reality of it breaks your heart.

I did. The first time. Then again. The second. Then again. The third time. And then I lost count. A few years went by and it took a life-altering event to make me realize that I couldn't keep doing this to myself, our children.

Sometimes the first time, the slip-up, doesn't seem too bad so forgiveness is the only recourse. But it depends on the personality of the one breaking the rules. I forgave and forgot and moved on after the first time it happened until I couldn't forgive and forget anymore.

I don't think it is necessarily a red flag either. I think it has more to do with you then your husband. I had a similar fear when I first got married and it wasn't about infidelity it was even worse and why I would ever think my husbad would do what I thought, is beyond me. I'm too embarrassed to even post what it was I was always worried about. As I've gotten older and my fear has never been manifested by him, or anyone I know I've come to learn that It was my fear of men. Or my perception. THe way I was raised to feel about what their true intentions were and what they ALL really were, deep down etc. Kind of sick when I actually think about it. And i'm sure my mom didn't mean to scare the crap out of me, I was very impressionable and overly sensitive.

The infidelity question is a good one. LOTS of factor...

No, I wouldn't. Couldn't do it. Thankfully, he'll never put me in that situation.

Yes, I did it... I let my hubby have a "hall pass" twice with a girl I didn't know that I never communicated with. I did this b/c I felt like he needed an outlet other then me after 8 years... and let me tell you, I knew EXACTLY what was said in text and phone calls, and now he's not seeing her anymore. it was a chance for him to get his sex drive excited again, and I don't feel ashamed of it. i know he loves me and will come back to me if I allowed it again, and that it's only BC I allowed it that he did it. Hurray for spouses!

Have you considered talking this over with your spouse?

I was just reading some behavioral psych stuff this week on why people cheat/split up/give up (but the emphasis was on cheating). I can't speak to biological imperatives for men, as I'm not one; I'm not discounting it, but I'm not gonna hold a banner up for it either.

As for finding out about a cheating spouse, I'll say it again. When it happens to you, you feel small and useless and ugly and like a nobody, no matter how intelligent, wealthy, gorgeous or handsome, or able you are to move on and find someone else. It robs you of your soul for awhile (wow, that was hyperbolic). And I'd imagine that, unless you're amoral, the guilt of cheating has gotta be tough, too. Cheating is a killer unless it's part of your dynamic that you agree on; but then, you don't call that cheating anyway. You call it a "freebie" or a "pass" or whatnot.

What I read about with respect to failure in marriage (that started with someone cheating) involved four categories, including feeling wanted, happy, loved, and safe.

Put these four things in a quadrant and see where you fall in each area--or better, you and your spouse do it as if you were in counseling. It's usually the small things that lead people to seek affairs. Examples given:

Wanted: Do you make your spouse feel needed (besides cooking or changing a light bulb)? Who initiates sex--or is there passion at all? Do you wait up for dh or dw or get up with them in the morning? With whom do you spend the majority of your time--your dh, dw and kids? Or the gal pals, the poker buds? The boob tube, work, etc. Do you or spouse look constantly around at others or others' lives--not simple glances at beauty, mind you, but as if someone else out there looks a whole lot better to one of you?

Happiness: Do you do the things that make you happy as an individual? Do you also do things your spouse likes to do, out of your comfort zone and into his/hers? Are you happy to see each other at home, all of you? Do you talk down to each other? Does the wife talk to you like you're one of the kids? Do you say things that make her feel dumb? Are you mad at each other all the time over petty things? Do you believe you both deserve to be happy?

Loved: Are you affectionate? Do you prove your love by word and action? Do you say the words I love you, hug, kiss, do PDAs if you're comfortable with that? Is your sexuality safe with your spouse; that is, can you both discuss it openly and freely? Is your spouse the person you turn to first, when necessary?

Safety: Do you know your family is in safe hands? Are you 2 safe in each other's hands? Do you both know you can raise your children, pay the bills, trust each other with money? Feel integrity in each other? Do you do things to surprise each other (we made lists of some ideas a couple of weeks ago)? Do you let your spouse know you can be trusted not to cheat, physically or emotionally with someone else? Or, if it's happened--and you both want it to work--do the two of you believe it will never happen again?

For me, because marriage is supposed to be a long-term commitment, I'd say 1st reaction--no, no second chances, no freebies. If you're looking for that, aren't you really saying you'd rather not be married? No judgments on anyone else, just that it hurts when you're the cheat-ee. I had a part to play in his seeking something elsewhere--sure--because I failed him in one (or more) of the above areas, but I certainly didn't push him into another woman's vagina. Cheating isn't the answer to problems in marriage. And I would have a problem with trust. I'll never say never, but that's how I feel now.

I don't know if I could. I mean, I think if he had sex with someone, then he decided to cheat on me before he did it... And that is what would hurt. That he would risk it like that. He'd have gotten to know the person, flirted, and then made the decision to cheat.

I'd have a hard time.

I hate to admit it, even though I was a bishop's daughter, I was NOT a very good mormon. I had a couple of rules, if a guy was out of a long term relationship and was trying to 'get me' on the rebound.....nope. I would never.....ever even consider being near anyone that had a girlfriend or was engaged. I did make one exception to this, I introduced the guy to his soon to be wife and he was never really interested in me. We both went to the same credential program, we car pooled, ate lunch together. My second husband (a big tither) had slept around, as I found out a year and a half in our marriage. When I confronted him, he became extremely violent, beat me senseless. (two broken ribs, a concussion and a cracked tooth). I knew it was not the sex, I guarantee you, I was probably the best he had, I will leave that to your vivid imagination. I was/am not a 'porn star' but I did not lay there either.

When I told my father (the bishop) about what transpired, he gave me the old "Pray......forgive crap." I could tell you things I heard, as I was my father's 'unofficial' secretary so I took notes (shorthand). I drew a line in the sand and said I was going to the police and have my husbands two children taken away from him. I went to the police, They seemed interested, especially when the detective started looking into the death of that man's first wife. Then all of a sudden, that detective was re-assigned to check fraud. The detective that took over the caseload did not seem too interested in doing anything. I, years later, found out he was a 'moron' too. Just a few calls from a stake president is all it took. It was at that point, I realized what shit the 'moron church' was.

Coo Stark (I may be off in the spelling of the name), one of Mick Jagger's wives once said, "You have to be a maid in the frontroom. A master chef in the kitchen and a tart in the bedroom." I tried that one. It did not work. Honey, if you find out he cheated.....be careful.

xmo7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems so
> hard to make sure it "never happens" you know> It
> almost seems like it would be easier to just not
> care about it as much. Does that make sense?

There's really not much anyone can do to control another person. We can't force people to love us. We can't force people to remain faithful to us. We can be lovable and desirable, but how anyone else reacts to that is up to them.

The irony is that the more we TRY to force love and fidelity, the more it pushes them away. Think Overly Attached Girlfriend.

I bit of cynical-but-mostly-true wisdom I picked up in a psychology class is that the person in a relationship with the greatest desire to maintain the relationship becomes the one with the least control over whether that happens. The one most willing to leave ends up with the most power. That doesn't mean a successful relationship should be a race to see who cares least. It simply shows the problem with trying to control relationships.

>
> Not that I think it would but it might be less
> pressure if I didn't let it bother me anymore. In
> the church its about being perfect and never
> making a mistake. And now i don't know if there is
> really a point to being perfect...?

Right. Do you love the person or do you really love a certain perfect ideal? Do you love the person, warts and all, or is it really more about how that person makes you feel? Is it primarily a self-serving love?

Ideally, a person who truly loved you wouldn't do anything that hurt you.The reverse is also true. But humans aren't perfect. Yes, many couples are 100% faithful. A lot aren't. Some of the 100% faithful couples have bad marriages anyway (mine, for example), and some of those with imperfect fidelity records have great marriages.

I think what matters in fidelity or infidelity is how you react to it. Because that's really all we can do short of locking up our partner in order to prevent infidelity. Would cheating be a deal breaker? That's what you need to decide.

anyway, I gave him all the freebies he wanted. He left anyway. He had the freedom to do pretty much whatever he wanted as long as he came home and kept helping to raise the children.

I'd rather be alone than live with someone who cheated on me.

That is a non-starter here. We have been married for almost 40 years and are still so much in love and committed to each other, that straying just isn't an issue. We know marriages that have fallen apart after one affair and others that have mended and carried on.

Ron Burr