I've seen copies of letters received when people resign, reminding them of things they are losing, supposedly, like the freedom to obey without thinking, but if one casts oneself into (drumroll please) Outer Darkness by choice, wouldn't that make any mumbo jumbo pertaining to that person null and void? How can one be sealed to someone in Mo hell? I don't understand this.

You aren't losing anything (except for inappropriate control over your life, mind-numbing obligations and busy work, forced poverty, and endless guilt) - none of it means ANYTHING. It's all simply threats to keep people in line and live in fear. It seriously means nothing.

They claim to revoke all the covenants one made in the temple. This seems odd. It's almost as if they've set themselves up as God's sole agent for whom no one else can speak, and one is not allowed to communicate or deal with God except through them.

Oh, wait. That's the definition of all organized religion.

Not all organized religion. Just heard a sermon in church today which said we ALL can tune in on our own and study and commune with Christ. Diectly. No priesthood between.

If you can tune in on your own and study and commune with Christ directly then why are you wasting your time in a church ?

Same reason I could do Zumba at home by myself but it's more fun to go to the class at the Rec Center and be with other people, getting tips on how to exercise more effectively, and enjoying socializing.

Dave, you made me laugh.

Hey, and now that you've got third parties out from between you and Christ, how about removing Christ as an intermediary between you and life.

Not all religions say your salavtion is doomed without active membership in their faith system.

The Orthodox Church proposes that they dont know what the fate or salvation of non-members will be.. Orthodox Christians are only responsible to do the faith requirements if they know they are the best things to do, and it's the truest faith.

Buddhists are similar, I have heard.

Yes, there are some that way. Quakers, Universalists. That movement was really alive and well in the 1600's in the Netherlands. But oh, how those Calvinist ministers persecuted them! They were always going before the Burghermeesters and trying to get everyone thrown in prison for heresy.

I'm getting this from the book I'm reading.. "Spinoza, a Life." It is has an excellent description of the freedom of thought prevalent in 17th century Amsterdam.

I'd like to replace every Jesus picture in the house with Spinoza, Thomas Paine, Robert G. Ingersoll and Bertrand Russell, but DW would balk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2013 05:17PM by rationalguy.

So that means you can't rule and reign in the House of Isreal like in "Pinky and The Brain Meet Joseph Smith"?

It's confusing. It seems that all blessings are removed except for the sealing. And if that's the case, Mormon families shouldn't be nearly upset about apostasy or excommunication since the Forever Family™ is still intact.

I have a friend who was excommunicated and thinks his sealing was revoked, but I'm not sure it is, judging from others' experiences with the whole thing.

baptism commitment is between you and God. In mormomism, as I recall, it is a commitment you make within the sole confines of momonism and, therefore, your baptismal covenant is between you, the mormon church, and the mormon God.

Do correct me if I am wrong. :-)

Endowments are canceled,I believe. Sealings too, or does that stay in effect? But, you can't be sealed with out being baptized and endowed, so they're canceled too?

Now I'm wondering if the temple sealer's authority to marry civilly no longer applies upon resignment... can you imagine if they were to ever take that approach? "Oh, you're not civilly married anymore, either!"

From what others have written, even after someone leaves ChurchCo, they're still having to sign away a "cancellation of sealing" for the ex-spouse to be sealed to someone else. You would THINK that the sealing was automatically cancelled, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Obviously I don't know. I don't think anybody does.

Clear as mud, right?

I would have my sealing to my ex-husband reinstated. My son would not be sealed to anyone, since he was born during the time that I was resigned, but any future children born after my hypothetical rebaptism would be born in the covenant and sealed to myself and my ex-husband, instead of their real father.

Yeah. Clear as mud.

It should say good luck with your freedom, 10% pay raise, and extra 10 hours per week.

Yes, I can vouch for what omreven said. A friend of mine was exed and then divorced, in that order. His Ex still had to get a cancellation of sealing in order to marry someone else in the temple. Go figure.

Does that mean that one could use that as an "It's okay, really," consolation to a tbm spouse, saying that it's okay if they leave the church (either just leaving or resigning) because the sealing will still be in effect?

I would say "no" because leaving the church is such a major huge hardship in Mormonism.

If the sealing doesn't really "go away," that would seem a consolation to spouse and family, but it really isn't, judging from the loss that happens when someone leaves.

It's crazymaking.

But I would totally remind or suggest this if I were in this position of leaving.

Not really. Since they think they're going to the CK and you'd be going... somewhere else. Not much practical use in a marriage if you're on separate planets!

Technically, no-one is sealed, because the blessings of the sealing are contingent on keeping the covenants made in the temple. Since the members are never actually asked to turn over everything they have to the church outside of the temple as part of the law of consecration, the sealing never really takes effect.

From Bruce McKonkie, Mormon Doctrine:
"The sealing of men and women (couples) to eternal life is predicated upon continued faithfulness in mortality over time, after their temple marriage, and is not automatic or inherent in the marriage ceremony when a couple is first married in the temple, as temple instruction makes clear. Said President Joseph Fielding Smith, 'Blessings pronounced upon couples in connection with celestial marriage are conditioned upon the subsequent faithfulness of the participating parties.'"

The sealing requires obedience to ALL of the covenants made in the temple, one of which is the law of consecration. So, if the church does not require obedience to the law of consecration in practise, the sealing never goes into effect.

There's no such thing as "sealings" - they're all made-up terms. All that crap is.

Doesn't matter if it's all "made up crap." People believe it to be real. Let's take it seriously.

If we take it seriously they'll never grasp that it's a load of crap. It needs to be exposed for what it is!

If Dorothy only found one ruby slipper, could she have returned home?

Okay. Say that one of us here quits one day and then dies the next day. What does The Morg do then?

Kinda hard to get a resignation from us while were partying at The TK Lounge...

I know we have to wait somewhere for the Resurrection, correct?

I would assume because I am no longer an member of the cult, that I no longer hold the priesthood. It's not much of a loss because I BS'd my way into getting ordained an elder anyway....

Ron Burr

Ooo... page 86 of Handbook 1 says,

"If a woman who has been sealed to a former husband remarries, the children of her later marriage are born in the covenant of the first marriage unless they were born after the sealing was canceled or after it was revoked due to excommunication or name removal."

That's suggesting that sealings are revoked upon resignation, yeah?

Your cultship is revoked and you enter paradise. If God and heaven exists, it's only logical that you go back to where you came from.

Your TEMPLE COVENANTS have been revoked. You can no longer be
called upon to give everything you have to the building up of
the Mormon Church