The Church culture and paradigm is to let the children come. Fortunately, my spouse and I have not. Yet...

However, my feelings about having children have changed. I have a lot of things I need to address personally before having children. Not the least of which is an ambivalence-apathy, even-about having children. I'm still trying to figure myself and my own path out.

Now that I have more perspective, I'm not sure that I'm really interested anyway. My spouse feels the other way about it entirely.

Have any of you felt the same way as myself? What did you do? Do you regret having children/not having children?

Having children is the kind of step that you can't really take back (I'm a responsible/committed person-I will leave it at that!). So what do you do if it isn't really what you wanted after all.

I'm confused... What kind of compromises are there for this kind of thing? Not having children would probably be unacceptable to my spouse. How can I start that conversation? Aargh...

I adore my one. He's fantastic, a great kid, a great companion etc, but I don't think I want more. He's perfect, so we don't need to keep having more to get a better one.

The proclamation says that children are entitled to birth to parents who love them, and I really think that they should also be entitled to birth with in a family where they don't have to compete with a hoard of siblings to be noticed or to experience more than daily drudgery, to not have to be in a family where one sibling or another is always upset at them for something etc.

My hubby say he wants more, and we're still early enough in the game that we may, but we're good with the one we have. And really, I can't imagine being the working parent who is gone for at least 9 hours a day and has at best 2 hours each evening before kiddy-bedtime where s/he has to try to squeeze in meaningful interactions with all of the kids. (of course, the tbm ladies with piles of kids just don't get that.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2013 02:13PM by rainwriter.

Being the youngest child of six, and rather a late addition to the family, I saw all my siblings have children. I wanted nothing to do with that path.

But, of course, Mormonism is all about having families. That was one more thing the church and I didn't have in common.

I didn't marry until after I'd left the church. The fact she didn't want children either was a big plus. I got a vasectomy. Zero regrets——except that I hadn't gotten one back in my 20s.

I had a son when I was 18 and raised him solo. I never wanted more due to struglling to riase him alone. Then when I met my current husband 19 years later I changed my mind. We tried but couldn't and now I am too old.

No regrets, though because I have one child. However, I probably would have regreted if I had none.

Thanks for sharing, everyone.

I'm on the fence and just don't know what to do. Rainwriter-you raised a good point RE ethics. Children do deserve to be raised in homes where they are loved/don't have to compete etc. (although most do not have this experience...). I need to think seriously about this.

I am engaged to a non-mo and he has told me he may not want kids. If we did have kids we are agreed only 1-2 and not until we are older and more settled. I am not dead set on having children and since I agreed to marry him I accept the fact that we might not have children. I am surprised though, it seems few people talk about these things (especially mos) before marriage!

Did you talk about children before marriage? You definitely need to talk about it again and your limits. I would do it soon. If you are certain you want none she needs to know.

May I just say that being a parent is the hardest thing BY FAR that I've ever done. I was about to say--especially since I was a single parent for a long time, BUT, nope, the past few years have been far worse than when they were baby twins and the hours I spent in a basement apartment when they were first born or all the little needs they had. I had no time to myself, no privacy, no SPACE. It was very difficult for me, BUT the worst part of all was looking at those 2 babies and thinking, "If anything happens to either of them, it will be the death of me." It changes EVERYTHING.

I love my kids more than anything in the whole world and I would do anything for them, but you bring them into this imperfect world and then watch it hurt them and you can DO NOTHING but be there to tell them you love them.

AND like I've said before on this board--having children is the most selfish of acts. Do we have children for them or for us?

I don't want grandkids.

I have grabdkids and it is the biggest pleasure I have ever known in my life so far!

They are amazing and I will never have to deal with the teen years etc., my job was done with that with my son but grandkids, one can actually truly enjoy (most times).

Why don't you want grandkids? Just curious...

Wanted to add one more thing...

A very close friend of mine was married at 19 (both No mos) and he told me that his then wife told him before marriage that she didn't want kids. He did. They were young so he married her anyway hoping she would change her mind. She didn't and they got divorced 10 years later. He is now remarried and has a new baby. He told me that he had no one to blame but himself re the break-up of his first marriage because his then wife always said she didn't want kids, he just "hoped" he could change her mind....

I wish you the best of luck. Having children is so personal and emotional. It's difficult if spouses don't see eye-to-eye on this.

Fortuneatly my wife and I both agreed that we wouldn't let the church tell us what was right for us. Even when we were TBM we used some common sense and a plan. We are very happy how things turned out.

First of all, we waited to have kids and were married for 8 years before the first one arrived. We now have two and it feels perfect. We both got college degrees, good jobs, and saved money before we had kids. The result is that today we have much more money and time to devote to our kids than if we had done otherwise.

Some people in the church judged us and said we were too focused on worldly things. All I can say is I'm much happier with my life now than they are with theirs.

I should mention that I come from a family of 7 kids and my wife from a family of 8 kids. We both had good childhoods and we really enjoy having so many siblings. Lots of children is right for some families.

We just realized that everybody is different and we recognized what worked for us. We also recognized that you better have a plan. Just having lots of kids when you are young and hoping "the Lord will provide" is a huge gamble.

Hi, first time blogger and newly left church with my entire family. I believed every word and every proclamation, including letting the children come. We have five (ranging from 10 - 21 yrs) and of course I love every single one of them. However from my new, informed, experienced perspective, I would not do it again. All those things mentioned before are true, but what really has been heartbreaking for me is our lack of ability to give them the opportunities they deserve. Everything from little league to band camp, was few and far between. So knowing what I know now and though I cannot imagine life without them, But I certainly would not have as many children. Oh and BTW my DH left the child bearing decisions entirely up to me.

Between this and your other thread it seems like you should be asking yourself and your wife some really serious questions about your marriage.

If your desired path in life is as divergent from her desired path in life as it appears from these posts perhaps you should part ways and each follow your own path. It seems to me that you aren't doing each other any favors to stick together if you want such different things out of life. It also appears that your marriage has some communication problems since you are having these discussions with us instead of her.

---

I wanted kids and I'm glad I have them - one of the best parts and experiences of my life. Also the most difficult. Both more fulfilling and more difficult that I can describe.

For our 4th I was more borderline. I certainly would have preferred to wait longer but my wife really pressured me to have a kid then. I did and I have no regrets. I love him must as much as the others.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2013 03:16PM by bc.

The OP doesn't hint at either.

I have two children and deeply regret having them. I find that many, many people feel this way about children but can't say it out-loud because our society judges this type of honesty too harshly.

There, I said it. Having kids sorts blows.

The were asking people to guess the answer...
40% of married women regret this.
The answer: HAVING CHILDREN.

I was kind of surprised by that, but I guess it just goes to show how many people are having kids just because they think they are supposed to, not because they want to or have given it much thought.
Most people give more thought to buying a house or a car than to bringing a child into the world.

I just had one. He has chosen to have none. With the Mormon indoctrination, it's freaky to be part of a stub on the old genealogy tree. But we both came from big dysfunctional TBM families and neither of us could face another 2 decades of fighting kids. We didn't know anything but fighting was possible in bringing them up.

I wish now I'd had more so there would be more people in the family, but if I had to do it over, I'd still choose one. I want the results, but I'm not willing to do the work to achieve it.

On the plus side. It doesn't matter as much to me that the world is changing. I don't have to worry about funding college for grandkids, or autism or pollution, except in the abstract. I care about these issues, but not like I would if it was going to affect my own family. I'm more at peace with this modern world than my friends with grandkids.

There were times I wanted children, there were times that no.
Now I don't have any and I don't want any.
I know I don't have it in me (finance, energy, etc) to take care of one.

Never really desired them, but assumed it was inevitable because I was raised in the morg.
Desire to NOT have them only increased over the years, and I was lucky enough to find a man who already had a vasectomy.

Children should be very desired.

Each time I told my husband I was pregnant, even though he had agreed to try to get pregnant and was aware we were not using any protection, the news was met with a look like I'd just told him nuclear war had broken out and the mushroom cloud was two seconds away from our location. But now that we have our little family, he agrees that having anything happen to those kids so we didn't have them anymore would be the worst thing he can imagine. He loves them and the idea of being a dad has grown on him enough that he can acknowledge the joy they bring along with the many challenges of parenting. I knew I wanted to be a parent and was still unprepared for how much you love that kid - I never knew love like that existed! I find parenting incredibly fulfilling; my husband finds that he is able to do it and is glad he did it, but is also very glad he stopped at two because it's not as natural or fulfilling of a fit for him as it is for me.

You may not realize how much the role of parent might agree with you until you actually have a kid -- not advocating having a kid you don't want....just saying it's hard to know what it's like and how much more you like *your* kid than kids in general without actually having the experience yourself.

That's one thing I'm going to be sure to advise my kids about when they get to the age where they might be ready to settle down. This needs to be talked about *before* people get married (I made the mistake of not talking specifically enough and this issue has caused a lot of problems in the marriage). It is hard to compromise when one wants kids and one doesn't because you can't go half way.....you either become a parent or you don't. The partner that comes out on the losing end of that argument is going to have a bunch of resentment toward the other partner.

If you're still both relatively young and no health issues putting having kids on a tight deadline, maybe you don't have to decide right now? (But if she's already decided she wants it for sure, she probably already feels a timing deadline and might not like the idea of losing out on peak fertility while her partner sits on the issue indefinitely.)

I always used to plan on getting married young and having a big family, but when I left Mormonism, I realized that this isn't actually what I wanted, it was just what the Morg TOLD ME I wanted. Its really quite incredible that someone can convince you that you want something that you actually don't!

Now that I've kicked my brain into gear, and started actually doing my own thinking, I don't want kids. At least not right now. I've got plans for my life, and kids would just get in the way of those plans at the moment. That probably sounds selfish, and maybe it is, but hey, this is my life! If I'm not going to look out for what I want, who is?

I never really wanted kids. I had one when I was 37 to please my ex-wife, and then I was all-in 100% because I wanted him to have a good life. He's a great kid, and I love him. I don't think I ever would have kids though if I hadn't been proded into it.

I didn't have my kids until I was 30. I only wanted 2.

I adore them. They are adults now, and bring a lot of joy into my life. I spent last Christmas without them. It was boring.

It wasn't always easy when they were kids, but it was worth every bit of it. I never wished I'd had more. In fact, i'm glad I didn't. Two was enough.

I came from a family with 7 kids. I hated every minute of it. I couldn't stand the constant chaos, clutter, lack of privacy, and a ton of other issues. I couldn't get out of that house soon enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2013 03:35PM by Mia.

We love our kids to death (had 4 in 4 years - typical Mo at that time) and rejoice in their accomplishments and happy lives. Our granddaughter is the light of our lives - we adore her beyond words. Having said that, though, being a parent was, at the same time, the best experience ever and the worst experience ever. Two of our kids gave us a LOT of trouble and heartache - I was exhausted for 15-18 years, between the two of them, continually frustrated and stretched too thin, we never had enough money, I had no help from family (NONE), and I felt I raised them largely by myself because my husband had to work long hours.

Would I do it again, knowing what I know now? It is the expected kneejerk reaction to say that I would, of course, and I probably would, but...I'm not sure. They are all married now and are relatively happy, though none of the relationships is perfect, so it's difficult to imagine all that not happening. But, having more money and being able to hog my husband to myself all those years sounds so very...wonderful. Who knows...I probably would do it again, but I'd think about it a whole lot more carefully this time around!

I guess I should frame it this way - had I not been LDS during that time period and so immersed in the culture that it seemed almost blasphemous to NOT have a passle of kids, I don't know that I would have had any. I'm not a super-duper "kid" person, I'm extremely private and introverted, I love my quiet and alone time, and I have to have my home organized and tidy. It would have given me a lot more pause to think about bringing children into my life had I been more self-actualized and authentic at that time.

Cathy Wrote:
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>I have to have my home organized and tidy.

That reminds me of a comment by an intentionally childless couple I know.

He: "Kids f#ck up your stuff."

She: "And your life plans."

Help save the human race and do so by not having babies!
new book out that says we have to educate women and give them more say, so as to lower the total population of the planet.
Well, women always get the tough jobs, so what's new?
Librarian

My only problem with this is that rotten people are not going to stop having kids so if nice/educated/open-minded people stop having children woe to all of us down the road...

I had decided it was a poor idea to have multiple bio kids and didn't want to. After leaving the church I felt validated in my opinion about kids. I found a spouse who believed the same things. We worked, developed careers, got a nice place to live and then got kids. We have three kids, all adopted.

I think people should only have children if they are truly passionate about the idea and have thought it out thoroughly. Having kids is a game changer. Your life will no longer be about you and it will be about raising your kid(s). This will last for the next 18+ years. You lose your money, time, and freedom once you start a family.

I think there's enough people in this world and no one should feel obligated to have any, unless they REALLY want to.

I was raised Mormon but left in my mid twenties. I never felt the huge urge/rush like others have about having children though I just assumed I would one day I would. Well I married a woman who felt similar to me and we kept putting off having children. Fast forward 10 years, we both have lost any desire to have kids. We enjoy our lives we have right now. We love traveling. We love going out with our friends. We love each other and the time spend together. If it ain't broken...

I'm sure if we had a "surprise" one day we would love our child and not regret having him/her but we really like our lives right now so I feel no reason to have any.

Just how I feel personally.

Ex-CultMember Wrote:
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> We enjoy our lives we
> have right now. We love traveling. We love going
> out with our friends. We love each other and the
> time spend together.


Which makes people with kids envy/hate us intentionally childless people and our freedom. It makes them deliver lectures about how we're being selfish and immature.

Well, exactly, we selfish, immature people shouldn't be parents.

My first two were accidents and I was perfectly happy to stay with just them. I got remarried after a divorce and my second wife would not stop pushing to have a child (she had no kids of her own). It almost lead to divorce. I was pretty sure I didnt want more, and was afraid that I would not be able to be the kind of dad I wanted to be if I did have more. I did in the end agree to have another child because I loved my wife and didnt think it was worth the divorce. Probably shouldn't have had the kid to save the marriage cause I dont think that normally works, but in this case, BEST thing I ever did. My daughter and I are bonded in ways I never knew existed. She is just a part of me I couldnt live without now. She is more of a challenge than my other two combined, but she is such a unique and facinating little person that I just cant wait to spend as much time as I can with her every day. So you never know how its going to go, but I think better to err on the side of caution is the best idea when it comes to having kids.

I have four from my first marriage to my ex-TBM and it was probably too many for our finances but I would not trade one of them for all the money in the world. They are amazing people and I would go through it all again just to have them in my life. I have one with my current wife (not mine biologically-hers from previous relationship and I have adopted her) and I love her as much as my first 4.

Kids bring amazing things into your life and they teach you things you would never learn if you never have them. YES you have to be able to support them and at times it is very difficult, but what they bring into your life is so worth all the sacrifice. I have never been well off financially, which is because I had so many kids. I have gone without all the toys like 4 wheelers and nice cars in my life but what I have gained from my children is worth more than any amount of money can buy.

I was in the position to get snipped when we had three. I now wish that I would have gone through with it. The three would have gotten more of everything from us as parents. We had two more one of which turned out to be a huge burden both financially and emotionally. You always love your children but there is always risk. More children will not make an unhappy spouse happy. No one will benefit except maybe the church.

Not having more children is not a divorceable offense. It's common sense especially when one spouse just ain't down with it. If the marriage is rocky now more kids make it far worse. More kids will also make you feel more trapped and overburdened and the kids will not be looked upon as angels but something else. Only you know what you should do. If you know you'll regret it then you deserve what you get if you don't stand firm.
Quality vs quantity is best.