It has been two months to the day (11/29/2012) since Tom Phillips became the new managing editor at MormonThink. That is twice as long as I was MT editor before I was called in for disciplinary council.

Think about the following:
Tom is still a member.
He's a former stake president.
He has his second anointing.
He has corresponded with Apostles, as recently as mid last year.
He has been highly vocal about spreading and declaring the truth which LDS inc doesn't like.
His name has been known from before the day he took the managing editor role.

And yet, the church has done nothing.

To the members who lurk here: you can deny that Tom has had a second anointing. But here's the evidence: The church leaders refuse to touch him. No matter how vociferously he proclaims the truths the church doesn't like very much, they won't have the seer stones to touch him. Because they know that they would have to admit to many many witnesses that Tom has indeed gotten his calling and election made sure. They seized the moment with the previous two editors, but they haven't even approached the issue about Tom. FAIR posted lots of information about previous MT editors whenever they could get it. Tom has been vocal and they barely even mention him on their site.

Why?

Tom's sincerity and honesty grabs the hearts of readers and listeners who've come across his words and interview. The church has taken everything away from him and should now "fear the man who has nothing to lose." Leaving him be, gives MT the credibility that he is not considered an apostate by the church. Perhaps that badge will allow his own family to recognize he should be heard.

It didn't take long last time when FAIR outed me (and previously the founder) to the leaders in SLC. Why are they so absent now?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 03:14PM by Jesus Smith.

In their wildest dreams they never imagined someone like tom phillips stepping in at mormon think.

It was a strategy that trumped all their nastiness.

They probably just pray for his demise, because they can't do much of anything else without out making themselves look like the fools they are.

Judging by the church's MO, it seemed apparent at the time he took over that he would be untouchable. Take Tal Bachman for example who also hasn't been touched. The church does not like to take on people who are well known. They've learned from experience the bad press it can generate when someone is exed who is either well known, or who has information that the church simply wants to put a lid on. Exing Tom would expose an ordinance that they simply don't want exposed.

If the church loves its members so much that it would discipline them in a court of love to bring them unto repentance, then why should high profile apostates be deprived of that same love?

What you're saying is, they're afraid.

Yep.

I was a nobody when they came after me. They expected me to roll over and cave like every other member they threatened. I think they were shocked when I went to the media. Most members do not think the church goes after people in a mean-spirited way. Most members do not believe the church disciplines over speech/teaching true history. They now know it still does.

Or did. Until Tom was placed in the same position the church has gone quickly after in recent past.

I think people like Tom and you have stood up to a bully. Bullies so often back down when stood up to.

Paper tiger?? I think they always have been.

When I left BYU I had a friend who was denied his diploma for being found out to be gay. He sued and his lawyer started talking to the media in SLC and he had his diploma the next day.

Vampires hate sunlight.

The "Mormon Moment" has passed, e.g., we're not as concerned about making Mormons seem likable, personable, or electable?

Just a guess.

Have to agree with blueorchid on this one. They can only lose if they start a fight with Mormon think again. Best to keep quiet and hope no one notices.

Then they're very very stupid. To go after an editor who was quietly, unnamed as MT editor during a very public election of their mormon candidate...that was very blindly played by the church.

How would they ex someone who's had their calling and election made sure. At that point haven't they turned it over to God? How do they still have a say in it?

John D. Lee had his Second Anointing and was excommunicated. He later had his temple work restored.
Quote:
On April 20, 1961, the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints met jointly and, "it was the action of the council, after considering all the facts available that authorization be given for the reinstatement to membership and former blessings to John D. Lee." Word was sent out to members of the family and on May 8 and 9, the necessary ordinances were performed in the Salt Lake Temple. A complete record is in the files of the Latter-day Saints Genealogical Society. (Mountain Meadows Massacre, p.223)

“Temple worker Merrit L. Norton had presented the family’s request, and on April 20, 1961, The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve authorized the restoration of Lee’s Membership and Temple Blessings. Norton was baptized for his dead grandfather, and on May 9 Apostle Ezra Taft Benson officiated in the endowment and sealing ceremonies at the Salt Lake Temple.” (Blood of the Prophets, page 361)

Also, I believe George Darling Watt, Brigham Young's personal secretary, inventor of the Deseret Alphabet and more had received the 2nd anointing but had been excommunicated for trading with gentiles, to be reinstated later as well. (I don't have the documentation on this.)

So apparently you can get ex'd with a second anointing but it can also be later restored.

According to Tom, the mission president presiding over the district where he resides could hold a council against him, but that would be without Tom being present and very sneaky. The only other way Tom believes it can happen is for the first presidency to hold the council in SLC. They would probably call him in for it. That would generate press.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 03:47PM by Jesus Smith.

Jesus Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John D. Lee had his Second Anointing and was
> excommunicated. He later had his temple work
> restored.
> Quote:
> On April 20, 1961, the First Presidency and
> Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of
> Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints met jointly and,
> "it was the action of the council, after
> considering all the facts available that
> authorization be given for the reinstatement to
> membership and former blessings to John D. Lee."

"In honor of Hitler's birthday, the First Presidency has
decided to restore the blessings of the Church's most famous
mass murderer."

Veddy interestink! Cold war?

Your post makes a lot of sense. The only other thing I can think of is they have come to the conclusion that they need to back away from everything and Tom would fall into this category.

The more they talk the worse they look. They seem to be backing away from their own apologetics teams, they are backing away from the gay issue very carefully, they are burying doctrines and history, they are having their warts removed slowly and surely and hoping no one notices.

Their only plan now is to employ a giant Mormon fog machine that will let their inconsistencies and miss-steps drift off into the midst as quickly as possible. Waiting for history to make them little flecks of history is dicey now with the internet.


I suspect the new Mormon motto is: The less said the better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2013 03:42PM by blueorchid.

Yup. It took 'em long enough, but they've finally learned to shut up.

"I don't know that we teach that" might be a frustrating and evasive answer, but it sure beats overtly supporting prop8, or talking about Kolob, or all the other crap that makes their attrition rate soar.

Too bad. Though they were on the other team, the scored way more in their own goal than ours. Now they've just taken the ball & hidden it in the SLC holy of holies & pretend like they never played at all.

Can you imagine the field day the British media would have if Tom Phillips was excommunicated? The rank and file members would learn about the "second anointing" from non-Mormon journalists, meaning they would realize they don't know major points of their own religion. What an embarrassment! I don't think there's anything Tom could say that would equal that.

The Church enjoyed their 'Mormon Moment' but they can only handle the positive news about them. They don't do well when approached with negative news about the Church. Like Holland's backpeddling when asked some tough questions by the BBC.

The Church somehow escaped real scrutiny during the Romney era but now I don't think they would want to try to even attempt to explain how the modern apostles can in affect judge a man worthy of exaltation in the place of God.

It's clear that they learned their lesson that even the average member can create very bad PR for the church, just imagine what a former stake president that received his second annointing from a living apostle could do?

Even FAIR recognizes this and I have yet to see FAIR openly bash Tom. They are savy enough to know that giving him any publicity, even bad publicity will be met with unwanted PR for the church on issues they would prefer the average member does not know about.

mtfounder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Even FAIR recognizes this and I have yet to see
> FAIR openly bash Tom. They are savy enough to
> know that giving him any publicity, even bad
> publicity will be met with unwanted PR for the
> church on issues they would prefer the average
> member does not know about.

Exactly. He's untouchable.
Even their post on the 2nd anointing is condescending.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Second_anointing
I like the phrase: "FAIR is confident that no faithful Latter-day Saint would want to learn about such a sacred matter from unauthorized sources." Which is akin to saying, "Now children, you wouldn't want to make mommy feel badly by eating all the cookies behind her back?"


What will happen if Tom hits the church with something very hard, and they're force to respond to him in some manner that is newsworthy? If he's untouchable, this could end up be a very big show-down.

The second anointing was clearly discussed with my fellow sister missionaries almost weekly while we were stationed at Temple Square. My Temple Square President was diligent in making sure we married well and that he wanted "No Empty Chairs". He taught us about the 2nd anointing, but never gave us details. As time went by in my marriage I began to remember what he had said and I wanted that for my family, so I began my quest to do whatever it took to have the highest glory. Here I am today. :)

Okay sorry, I shouldn't repeat that one so often, but I've kind of been married to it since Denial C. went on "sabbatical."

Note to COB Monitors: One of the clichés in recovery-from-dysfunction circles is "We're only as sick as our secrets."

I'll pass that one on free of charge...

Go Tom! Anointed One rules, and kicks ass!

They will threaten normal, little people like sithlord and me because we are unknowns. The fatal mistake they make is that this is the day and age of the internet and social media. They can bully people if the people they are bullying will back off and be quiet. If they bully someone who won't, then they have unleashed the dragon. We may not be famous, or well known in society, but we are famous enough in our little circle to do some damage.

I was chatting with safetyforthesoul on FB yesterday. She and her husband were threatened with being exed if they talked about it on FB. She complied in deference to her aging parents.

We got our SP to back down by carefully explaining how crazy we could make things, and just how public we could go, if we chose. We are planning to resign soon anyway, but we refused to be bullied into it. If the church would just let people walk away, whether they speak or not, and say nothing, then it would be a much smarter course of action. Fortunately for us, the big 15 are not all that smart. They seem to enjoy poking a stick into the hornet nest.

The 60's activist comes out in me when I read posts like this.

I'm so happy that the internet came about during my lifetime. It seems to be the great equalizer for people like us who get bullied by people like the church.

If the internet would have been around in the 80's when they ex'd me (behind my back), all hell would have broke loose. I had time, people, and resources that I could have used to make them look like the sob's they are.

I don't think that the church has fully grasped the power of the internet. They are just now beginning to understand that it gives their victims power they've not had in the past.

The best way to shut down abusers is to tell anyone and everyone what they're doing. For the first time in the history of the world the little guy has the power to level the playing field. I'm sure the church isn't liking that much.

The people that are currently 20 and under are going to put a knot in the tail of the church like they've never experienced. They were born with a keyboard in their hands. They will not tolerate being treated like shit by the church. They have the ability to announce any mistreatment to the world. Through their social networks, news feeds and other internet sources that are up and coming,they will force the church to be civil to the unfortunates that happen to be members. They will not be allowed to treat members the way they've treated me all my life. They will not be willing to pay the price of being outed.

ex·com·mu·ni·cate (ksk-myn-kt)
tr.v. ex·com·mu·ni·cat·ed, ex·com·mu·ni·cat·ing, ex·com·mu·ni·cates
1. To deprive of the right of church membership by ecclesiastical authority.
2. To exclude by or as if by decree from membership or participation in a group.

Once again excommunication doesn't remove or cancel anything. Since all the ordinances are predicated on faithfulness, all that a "Man or men" can do is suspend their efficacy within the group.

Nothing can be done to the second anointed except proclaim that they are delivered to the buffetings of Satan to may for their sins until they can pay no more and then the effect of the atonement will come into effect again. Part of the second anointing is to have one's calling and election sealed upon them. Whatever all of that is really worth.

FAIR loves to play the "it's too sacred card" whenever the problems concerning the temple are discussed.

FAIR would likely be very unqualified to debate the second annointing with Tom as I highly doubt anyone at FAIR has received their second annointing.

Or a completion certificate for an entry level logic course.

TSCC reminds me of a cat; constantly trying to cover up it's shit but it starts stinkin no matter what the cat does...

There is absolutely no need for them to pay attention to anyone. The drudgery of Mormonism will continue forward.

Mormonism is as irrelevant on the world stage as it ever has been. They're only important within the confines of their self-deluded bubble.

I wish the church would hide from me.

AMEN

[Jack Nicholson voice] "They can't handle the truth!"

> And yet, the church has done nothing.

Maybe they do not want to "speak evil" of the lard's anointed.