We used to swap kids with SIL so that the parents could go out on a date every other weekend. Last summer SIL said she is too stressed with life to continue so we stopped. DW thought it would be a good idea to start things back up again, so she emailed sis with this:

"We're ready to jump back into babysitting again if you're feeling up to it! Let me know."

SIL replies with:

"Johnny has become a good babysitter for us, so we use him for date nights now.

Would your kids like to go to church with us on Sundays? I would be happy to pick them up. Our meetings begin at 11:00.

-sis"

DW replies back with:

"No thanks sis. Smeagol and I choose to use this time for family events. We did ask the kids and they gave an enthusiastic "no". They love their cousins though and constantly want to play with them. I realize Johnny is growing up and may not want to "hang" with his young cousins as much. We understand.

Talk to you soon,
DW

P.S. Do you have arrangements for Little Tommy when you go to the older kid's school or doctor's visits?"

SIL replies with this last night:

"Frankly, the real reason I do not want to swap date nights is because I can't trust that you will respect the religious feelings of our family and I can't trust what will be said in front of my children at your house."

The only thing we could do was try to think of something funny last night. What else is there to do? I can't think of anything good to do about this situation. Doing nothing is probably the best. Let them live their lives I guess.

"What and odd thing to say. You offer to take our children to church to indoctrinate them and you worry about what we are going to say? Remember Family First!"

I like What is Wanted's style, although if you actually said that, it would probably only make your sister think her suspicions are correct. But I definitely agree with the sentiment!

They worry about you influencing THEIR childern because they know that they want to influence OTHER children themselves!

They know that they won't respect YOUR religous feelings, so they assume that you won't respect THEIRS either.

Let them try to raise their own kids in a bottle and see what happens later when they no longer have control.

Many of us are here on this board for that very reason.

Next time they offer to take your kids *anywhere* say no.
And when pressed for a reason, give them the exact same reason they gave you.

"Frankly, the real reason I do not want to swap date nights is because I can't trust that you will respect the religious feelings of our family and I can't trust what will be said in front of my children at your house."

Good idea.

"Frankly, the real reason I do not want to swap date nights is because I can't trust that you will respect the religious feelings of our family and I can't trust people that believe that having multiple wives and being secretive is OK."

JoD, in principle I agree with you, but it's not right to use children as a tool against other people when the disagreement is between the adults.

Their message was incredibly rude. Drop them, who needs this.

Deluded people often project their own feelings/problems/motivations onto others.

You can't reason with cultists. Stop trying and find better people to socialize with.

Ok, as frustrating and hurtful as this has to be...consider this...

They are being honest with you...something most TBMs will never summon the courage to do.

This gives you an opportunity to really talk about the issue of their fear. They cannot really be blamed for their fear, it has been programmed into them since they were born if they are BIC.

They also are probably completely incapable of seeing the irony/hypocracy of asking to take your kids to church but refusing to allow you near their own.

I would just kindly and patiently try to work through their fears and address their concerns.

This is a good opportunity to say things like, "I completely understand how it would be inappropriate for me to try to influence the faith of your kids in any way....just as it would be for you to try to influence the faith of my kids. What can we do to make sure that we have a great relationship and make sure we never step over that line for each other?".

I would reply with, "You are right, let's keep religion out of the conversations. I will agree to leave it alone and enjoy the company of you and your children if you can agree to do the same for me. Frankly, I am rather excited about this idea! My love for you and your family is very important to me. If I have ever done anything to betray your trust of me with your kids, let's talk about it and fix it. Life is too short to miss out on this time together."

Very good!

+1

jolene Wrote:
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> I would reply with, "You are right, let's keep
> religion out of the conversations. I will agree to
> leave it alone and enjoy the company of you and
> your children if you can agree to do the same for
> me. Frankly, I am rather excited about this idea!
> My love for you and your family is very important
> to me. If I have ever done anything to betray your
> trust of me with your kids, let's talk about it
> and fix it. Life is too short to miss out on this
> time together."

I like that approach. It can't hurt to talk it out. If they still act like you are poison, you can drop them later.I would point out that taking your kids to church is influencing them They need to respect your views too.

Send that family a copy of "Jesus Camp" next Xmas!

Oh never mind: if they don't already have it they're already living it!

I say screw 'em. You and your family are better off not walking around on eggshells for the rest of your lives with people like that.

p.s.: save the email exchange, though. It may come in handy when you have to prove that the reason you no longer allow your children to be near them is their dangerously contagious stupidity.

They're close-minded and fearful, these are not traits you want your kids to be around. Find new healthy "family." Screw them, how incredibly rude.

Trust

Funny word.

When our family left, my wife talked to her sister about the whole ordeal one day. It was decided not to tell their mom. Not because my wife didn't want to face her, but because it proved nothing to tell an elderly woman something that may cause her heartache. Well, wouldn't you know that it just happened to 'slip' out from my SIL to their mother. Of course, MIL was devastated about the whole ordeal and I took the fall for being the con man that stole her family.

Fast forward a couple of years. SIL's daughter and SonIL joined the church in a time of crises (terrible time to make a life commitment in my opinion). After a year, the church asked them to start distancing themselved from their former friends. Kids wised up really quickly and left which has caused a major rift between son-in-law and his MIL.

Low and behold, how many times I have had the chance to let it slip to MIL but I really like the kids and don't wish the negative attention on them. Lord knows, she will never let it slip about her own family and it is never mentioned period. Must keep up the 'image'.

If it were me, I'd just say that I'm a little taken aback that they would say something like that. I'd ask them what we have done or said to give them the impression we would disrespect their religious beliefs around their kids. I'd ask them to be specific.

If it were my TBM sister who wrote that, I would tell how hurtful her statement was and tell her I would never say such hurtful things to her, let alone think such things of her.

but in a way I'd be grateful for their honesty. Back when I was TBM, my younger siblings would come often to visit, staying for weeks at a time. As soon as we left the church, those excited visits stopped and they've rarely been here unsupervised by a sufficiently-TBM and super judgmental brother.

My mother finally acknowledged that they just don't trust us anymore, even though she acknowledged that we had in no way violated their trust or acted in a way that indicated we could not be trusted. It's just a knee-jerk reaction-- or so it seems.

Cut them dead. And tell them why.

What you do know is that you can not trust your SIL to be honest with you. She told the truth in the end....but after lying. How sad. Be happy your kids are not staying there. These people lie and will talk badly to your kids about not going to church. Be free of them.

smeagol Wrote:
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> SIL replies with this last night: "Frankly, the real reason I do not want to swap date nights is because I can't trust that you will respect the religious feelings of our family and I can't trust what will be said in front of my children at your house."

A possible reply -- "I understand your discomfort, but I want to assure you that you don't need to worry about that in any way. We support your desire to raise your children in your faith and we will not do or say anything in front of them to undermine that. We will instruct our children likewise. However it's a two way street, and we do not wish for you to take our children to church or to encourage them to attend church activities. So really, it's your call. I feel that with an attitude of mutual respect, all things are possible.

But if you don't feel comfortable leaving your children alone with us, then let's plan a get-together where you are here along with your children, or vice-versa. Let's not have religious beliefs divide our family. We would love to see you."

They are living in fear that you are going to undermine their religious teachings and.....horrors..you and your family and the cousins MIGHT say something that will get their kids to THINK...! And worse....to QUESTION!!

I know that affliction, there is a lot of it going around. I have seen some of that.

You can tell how threatened and scared they are of you and your family by her comments. It has nothing to do with trust. Trust, my arse. It's 100% about control.

Oh well. They loose out. What a shame.

smeagol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> SIL replies with this last night:
>
> "Frankly, the real reason I do not want to swap
> date nights is because I can't trust that you will
> respect the religious feelings of our family and I
> can't trust what will be said in front of my
> children at your house."


Gotta luv the hypicrisy of it all..

It's perfectly ok that your SIL attempt to convert/reactivate YOUR kids with HER religion but when there is the specter of you converting her kids (to no religion)...NOW conversion is bad.

And to boot...you never brought up any other lack of religion to your SIL in relation to her kids...What a bitch.

It never ceases to astound me the lack of and the fraility of mormons' faith in their religion.

I'd tell her to kiss your ass.

THAT was boundary-crossing rudeness.

I'd leave the door open to talk about it and let her know that you would like to discuss it, but the next move is up to SIL

Your SIL wrote: "I can't trust that you will respect the religious feelings of our family and I can't trust what will be said in front of my children at your house."

Ask her to explain what observable behaviour she is concerned about.