These threads are always fun. I'm always interested in people's responses and their reasons why.

...I also find it interesting to see the rebuttals.

While I sometimes see the question, "Are Mormons Christian?" I want to pose the question as, "Is Mormonism Christian?" That way it isn't focused on individuals but on theology and organization.

kolobianism is polytheistic; Abramic religions are monotheistic.

The bible acknowledges other gods yet says Yahweh is the bestest one so worship him lest he gets angry with you.

It isn't traditional Christianity. Their belief in the nature of God and many other things are very different. However, they believe in Jesus. I guess it depends on your definition and where you draw the line. Personally, I don't care if they consider themselves Christian.Of course Muslims and Moonies believe in Jesus. It boils down to where you draw the line.I guess Jesus can figure it out if he is really divine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2013 10:47PM by bona dea.

It fits within the broad framework of traditional Christianity,
as do hundreds of sects that have sprung up under that banner
during the last 2,000 years.

It it part of mainstream, creedal Christianity?

I'd say no. It's a close cousin, but not compatible with the
age-old doctrines of Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Protestantism,
Restorationism (Universalist brand) Restorationism (Campbellism)

On the other hand, I'm generally tempted to lump them all
together, as being more alike than different, in their general
mindset and effects upon society.

UD

Nope. Not even close.

Mormon Jesus is quite different from Christian Jesus. This rather fine series of YouTube vids brings it all to light:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkp4G7Z3yyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ1tAdNmrVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy5r7FIxFA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nE3bT-YHE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXkG7c5RVlY

So is Mormon Jesus a cousin of everyone else's Jesus?

Jesus warned His followers, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves (Matt. 7:15).

Mormonism preaches a different Jesus. This Jesus is even different than the one taught by Arianism.

There whole fantasy view where they are more Christian than the Christians, and more Jewish than the Jews is problematic.

Was he warning others about himself? Almost a paradox.

Christians should be generous: find a new name and give Mormonism the Christian title.

For a long time I thought it was. In fact, I even defended it for a long time because all I saw my LDS friends do was study scripture and speak 'normal' Christian talk. Until I started getting into the hidden theology with my LDS friends I didn't realize how different it was. The Jesus story is different. God is different. Pre-life, after life, all of it.

I was raised Catholic and thought Catholicism was Christian, too. But when I finally started getting into the nitty-gritty with other Christians, I realized it really didn't fit into the Christian category, either.

If you just go by the "I believe Jesus Christ died for my sins so I'm saved", then yes. It's the additional doctrine that makes them not Christian.

I would say until Mormons say they're saved only by Grace, they're not Christians.

So what about the Catholics who say you are saved by participating in the holy sacraments?

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what about the Catholics who say you are saved
> by participating in the holy sacraments?

I suppose that they would reply that sacraments were instituted
as a means to come in contact with that divine grace, and that
not every member need partake of every sacrament. I've never
heard a RCC say that even one sacrament is necessary for
salvation -- although their insistence upon infant baptism
and their teachings on the probable fate of unbaptized dying
infants might be argued as a de facto example of salvation
via sacrament.

UD

Your obviously right that even a Catholic would probably insist that the sacraments are secondary, if you put their foot to the fire. (I wonder if they ever did that to anyone) Even as a Mormon I didn't really believe that God would refuse entrance to heaven for someone who hadn't learned the handshakes. The issue is though that each sect's dogma differs in what the prerequisites for salvation are. Since that has been the case for nigh on two thousand years the sects have been fighting over who is really Christian. So for an Evangelical to say that Mormons deny grace, and are thus not Christian they are continuing in the tradition.

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your obviously right that even a Catholic would
> probably insist that the sacraments are secondary,
> if you put their foot to the fire. (I wonder if
> they ever did that to anyone) Even as a Mormon I
> didn't really believe that God would refuse
> entrance to heaven for someone who hadn't learned
> the handshakes. The issue is though that each
> sect's dogma differs in what the prerequisites for
> salvation are. Since that has been the case for
> nigh on two thousand years the sects have been
> fighting over who is really Christian. So for an
> Evangelical to say that Mormons deny grace, and
> are thus not Christian they are continuing in the
> tradition.

The RCC sacrament for the Anointing of the Sick might also
be construed as salvation via sacrament, in those cases
where an observant member has access to priestly last rites.

Can you imagine the looks of horror on family members' faces
if the old codger said: "Nah, Father -- no prayers -- no
holy water -- no mumbo jumbo -- I'm ready to take my chances
on this one.........."

UD

Catholics are now putting much more emphasis on grace than in the past and are much closer to the protestant view



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2013 11:20PM by bona dea.

I don't consider it a sect of Christianity even though Mormons say they worship Christ. To me, a Christian is someone who believes that Christ is God in the human form, and that he had to die on the cross in order for mankind to be forgiven of sin. Mormons do believe in the sacrifice, but they say it happened before the crucifixion.

As mentioned in that thread about Easter, Mormons often ignore the holiday, especially if general conference or a stake conference is scheduled on that weekend. If Easter falls on Fast Sunday, Mormons are fasting while Christians consider it a feast day, and for the sects that observe Lent, Easter is seen as the end of that period of fasting and reflection. As a convert, I was disappointed that Easter wasn't really mentioned as I thought that a church that claimed to worship the resurrected Christ would have stressed the importance of the day.

It's "Christian" in the sense that they use the Christ story as a basis for some of their teachings and claim the name for their own. They deviate pretty far from not only the historic Christian churches (all three major branches) that the term "Christian" refers to, but also from the teachings of the Christ they proclaim.

So they're Christ-based, but not Christ-centered and certainly not Christ-like. So it depends on what definition of "Christian" you're using.

since both are based on absolute hooey, does it matter?!

oxymormon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> since both are based on absolute hooey, does it
> matter?!

Hey -- if the Grand Mullah has issued a fatwa against
all Christians in Pakistan, you'll want to know whether
that includes attacking the Mormons at the Canadian Embassy,

Inquiring minds wish to know.

UD

I do not care about professional sports, but I still acknowledge that football and basketball are different games.

Yes but they are both Ballian. So while they may score points in different ways, and the ball might be shaped different, the winner always has more points and the ball is still full of hot air.

The good news is that Christ died for the just and unjust and by his stripes we are healed. And there is salvation in no one else for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Mormonism adds "after all that we can do" thereby bringing bad news to the original good news. It makes man come half way thereby undoing half of Christ's purpose. The extra layer puts prophets and priesthood between you and your maker. Adding extras in there.
I would say since Jesus isn't God but just an exalted man in Mormonism and that God is limited by his body of flesh and bone(to Mormons) requiring ordinances from us to get things accomplished, that completely changes the act of his sacrifice and is really a slap in the face.
But .. I do think some Mormons are Christians but Mormonism itself is not.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2013 11:32PM by suckafoo.

>>some Mormons are Christians but Mormonism itself is not.

Agreed.

suckafoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The good news is that Christ died for the just and
> unjust and by his stripes we are healed.

I'm not at all convinced that was the "good news" Jesus
preached during his ministry -- but it is certainly the
gospel of Apostolic Christianity. Mormonism claims to
be the restoration of that apostolic religion of 2,000
years ago, and it most certainly is not.

The most it might claim is to be the seventh dispensation
of some primeval plan of salvation -- but mainstream
Christianity and its predecessors were not dispensational.

UD

That is the mainstream Christian message for Protestant faith. Catholicism is Christianity too but I can't speak for that as I was raised a Protestant but converted to Mormonism in 2001. The good news being we are free from the law of sin and death according to Protestant teaching anyway. For me it feels good to just live and know I'm okay how I was created. The God of the universe does not frown upon us.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2013 11:52PM by suckafoo.

suckafoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The God of the
> universe does not frown upon us.

I'm fairly certain THAT was the original gospel -- a simple
reassurance that Roman rule did not mean the end to Judaism,
or to the central element of their religion: the covenant.

"In the desert, prepare the way for the Lord..." A reassurance
that, as in the days of old, God leads the people out of a
dangerous wilderness into a viable, just community."

No promise of a crucifixion -- no promise of a vicarious
universal atonement -- no promise of a Davidic messiah
restoring Jewish home rule -- no mention of heaven --
no church -- no Sunday meetings -- no new scriptures --
no calls to crusades or far flung missions --

If I'm even partly right in my guess here, compare THAT
to Mormonism. -- What a difference!

UD

Weird.

That was out of the Bible and how it is said in the NIV translation. So Mormons don't say it that way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 12:21AM by suckafoo.

If Moism = Christian, why doesn't Christian = Moism? We all know that doesn't work, don't we?

The two are inequal, not the same.

If Moism is a subset of Christianity, it doesn't have to equal all Christianity. If it's also a subset of Freemasonry, it doesn't have to equal all of Freemasonry. And if it's a subset of Rosicrucian "man as god embryo" doctrine, it doesn't have to equal that entire cosmology either.

Simply sticking the word Christ in the corporate logo doesn't make the corporation Christian.

One would be excused for thinking of the LDS faith as quasi-Christian or pseudo-Christian.

Since Christianity to me is mythical, I guess if they say they are Christian, it's fine with me.

Mormonism is complete ass, but they DO teach that Christ has something to do with salvation so... Id have to say it is a Christian religion because the followers are supposed to follow Christ (on everything except loving everyone...) in addition to a bunch of other rules and traditions.

Mormonism is to Christianity
What
Christianity is to judism

So no they are no more Christian, then christians are jews

I heard in a podcast that "Christianity is a bag on the side of Judaism and Mormonism is a bag on the side of Christianity." Sounds about right. Adding complications, precept upon precept. With monotheism you supposedly can't add more gods, but you can add more rules and metaphysics. Eventually though, it comes to adding gods anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 12:17AM by rationalguy.

My analysis FWIW is in my FAQ: "Are Mormons Christian?" at http://packham.n4m.org/lds-xian.htm

Short answer: yes and no.

I would define a "Christian" as someone who worships Christ. This clearly includes Mormons.

I feel like most people who claim that Mormons aren't Christians bend the meaning of Christianity purposefully to exclude their "weird" sects like Mormons and JWs.

I quit caring about that a long time ago...

Ron Burr