I posted something similar to this a couple months ago, but I wanted to post this again. I've changed a lot of it since then. Last time it felt like more of a plea, and this time I think it's more of a statement. Anyways:



I became an atheist less then 6 months ago and it's been a long journey.

I was born into and raised mormon. My family moved from Indiana to Nevada and back to Indiana while I was growing up. I went through a typical rebellious phase as a teenager and was inactive for a time, but it was what I knew and believed in. I would defend it at every turn and was utterly confused that others did not understand and/or accept what I had been taught.

I also had massive guilt trips and depression for not living up to "mormon standard" of perfection that no one can meet. I would constantly beat myself up and feel like shit for acting on the raging emotions and hormones of growing up that were completely healthy.

I was planning on going through ROTC at Purdue and go into the military when I graduated (was a childhood dream of mine), but at the last minute I was disqualified for medical reasons because of my hypoglycemia.

I lost my motivation for going to college and crashed and burned my second semester playing video games all night. I took a break and then went back to fix my grades. Before my first week of exams my car broke down, I became sick, and missed my exams. I withdrew after that.

I moved to Nashville, TN to live with so friends from high school and to get a fresh start. I fell in love for the first time, but the relationship fell apart because of our religious differences (southern baptist and mormonism do not mix).

A year later I was still having a hard drive moving past my ex. I had an aunt and uncle in Austin, TX who offered to have me live with them for a time, provided I went to church again to set an example for my cousins. I'd never been to Texas before and I needed to get away form everything reminding me of my ex so I figured what the hell and went for it.

After going back to church in Austin I realized how much I believed in mormonism and decided to rededicate myself to it. I was going to go on a 2 year mission like all mormon males do. I decided that to prepare for my mission that I would study out church history and what people were saying against the church so I would be prepared for the hard questions on my missions. I was like Alice jumping down the rabbits hole.

I spent the next month, on average 2-3 hours a day (I had just quit my job and had no idea what I was going to do to support myself) studying out church history. Ironically I did most of my research in the two weeks I was in Utah attending my two brothers' weddings. I was surrounded by my extended family who were all devout mormons.

The more I searched the more troubled I became. There were different accounts of the first vision? What? Joseph Smith had 30+ wives? What? The archeological history of the Americas contradicts the story in the Book of Mormon? No archeological evidence for the Book of Mormons? What? Joseph Smith's translation of the Egyptian papyrus that led to the Book of Abraham, which contains a lot of the unique doctrine of mormonism, completely wrong? What?

The oh shit and what the shit (Mass Effect 2 anyone?) moments kept coming and coming. Eventually, with all of the evidence in front of me, I had no choice but to come to the realization that mormonism was false. I couldn't lie to myself and I had to be true to myself. So I resigned from the mormon church (a process which took 4 months).

Believing in mormonism for almost 22 years, needless to say I was both devastated and liberated at the same time. When I resigned it felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I started a long process of letting go of all the guilt and shame I had felt for no being the "perfect mormon." At the same time it was incredibly hard as I had to exam everything I believed in and based my life on. I had "died" and needed to reinvent myself.

At first I turned to Christianity, but within months I applied the same reasoning to Christianity that I used to leave mormonism and I realized that it was false as well. So I became agnostic.

I examined many religions over the next 2 years, and while many had good merits there was nothing that did not contradict history and facts. I know faith is believing in something that cannot be proven, but faith should NEVER contradict fact. In the mean time I reconstructed myself on agnosticism, not giving up believing in a higher power, but not knowing for sure.

About 6 months ago I was talking with my then girlfriend about religion and I realized that I did not believe in a deity or supreme being. For me there just wasn't the evidence to support one. While I am willing to examine the idea of a supreme being if there is evidence supporting one, but I find no evidence that supports that claim.

So I became an atheist, and had to reexamine everything all over again. I consider myself a Secular Humanist. I feel like I've awoken to a new world, and I don't want to miss my chance to explore that world and get to know myself and what I will stand for. I'm also nervous/scared as I don't know how to explore by myself. I also feel like I've missed out on much of my young adult life and have a lot to make up for. In a sense I died again, and I had to rebuild everything again. (How many people have to reconstruct their entire world view once, let alone twice? lol :) ).

I recently broke up with my girlfriend of two years, who was also my fiancee. I was having too many doubts and I had a feeling she was repressing her beliefs to be with me even though she said she was agnostic. I wasn't ready to settle down or be married. It sucks but it was the best thing for both of us (and it turns out I was right. Shortly after we broke up she started posting about how great god was on facebook).

So I started off the new year single, an atheist, starting a new position at work, and starting Kung Fu again (I stopped two years ago when I got into my last relationship).

I want to get a symbol of a phoenix as a tattoo to symbolize my death and rebirth..maybe one on each arm, one for each rebirth (plus I'm a big Star Wars geek and the symbol I want to get is close to the symbol for the Rebel Alliance in Star Wars XD). In three years I went from being a conservative mormon to a liberal atheist

But anyways, this has been my journey, and while it has been a very long and hard one, it has been so worth it

Congrats on finding the road to freedom! Enjoy!

Congrats. You will likely find that life just keeps getting better now that you have let go of the "invisible man/woman in the sky". Wish you the very best.

I congratulate you on your freedom and I applaud your journey. It must have been very hard for you!! I'm glad u made it out!!! My biggest hugs go out to you!!!

Yay!!!!!

Kung Fu is Kung Fuuuuuuuuun!!!

Woot! Thanks for sharing, Donser.

Big green hugs,

Froggie

donser,

I became aware of how much of the post was about your relationships with women; they seemed to spur you to move on to different things.

Being an atheist can be a bit of a lonely experience sometimes, even when you take into account that that is the entire point! No imaginary friend to trip the bully or to get you the job or to cure that cancer.

If there is one huge consolation in it, it is that an atheist can question anything; there are no sacred cows blocking the road. For what it's worth, I respect that you did the right thing in breaking off with the religious girl. Your unbelief would have driven her crazy after a while. I've seen it happen.

Good luck.

Thanks everyone for the replies!

New Atheist, from what I have seen, Secular Humanism is a vague collection of different philosophical ideas that are not always compatible with each other. If you are looking for a definite, consistent, secular, rational philosophy, please allow me to recommend Objectivism, the philosophy of Ayn Rand.

If you have any interest in reading fiction, I would recommend starting with the novels, _The Fountainhead_ and _Atlas Shrugged_ by Ayn Rand. The nonfiction to start with would be The Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand, and Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand by Leonard Peikoff.

It appears that you now know that all claims require evidence, and the evidence for Objectivism is all around you. (And not in the hokey, unjustified way that theists claim about God.)

No part of Objectivism ever needs to be taken on faith. If, after you learn about what Ayn Rand had to say, precisely and thoroughly, and examine it for truthfulness, you find that you don't agree, then you should reject it based on the reasons for your disagreement. This is, of course, the only policy for one who has a fundamental commitment to reason.

I wish you well on your secular intellectual pursuits.

When I was a new atheist, I went through an Ayn Rand stage. My name here is from one of her characters. I have to say her work gave me confidence and moved me from being a "collective" sheep to viewing myself as an individual in charge of myself.

I owe her a lot- I found her books at a great time and they were monumental in my transition out of religion.

That said, now that I've read and studied even more, I see the flaws in her ideas. Like Alan Greenspan who knew her and understood here work, I see that the world would not work if we were all acting on our own self interests in some kind of John Galt utopia. People are not all that benevolent. There are several things I don't agree with her about now. Two small things bothered me: I did not see concern for the environment or children in her writing.

Having studied Rand's life and Russian background, I can understand from her perspective the things she wrote. I wish I could have met her.

I was not receptive to her as a Mormon. When the student is ready, the teachers appear. I see her as one of my teachers.

Congratulations, donser for owning your life. The journey is the joy of life, IMO.

Ayn was a true zealot. Greenspan was not only her student, they were lovers for some time.

I read Rand in high school. She inspires black and white thinking, and no, she didn't believe in charitable work of any kind.

lostinutah Wrote:
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> Greenspan was not only her
> student, they were lovers for some time.

Just a factual correction here: Greenspan was a student of Ayn Rand, (who never really understood the need for principles, and thus abandoned Objectivism) but not a lover. I think you are thinking of Nathaniel Brandon.

Many years ago I remember reading in some magazine article about Greenspan what he had to say about her. This is what I remember him saying.

Greenspan was sort of a groupie with some others. They would get together and brainstorm. Ayn would read what she was writing and they would discuss it. I think he backed off her group when he decided it was getting sort of cultish.

It was Brandon who was a follower and lover.

I have a video of Ayn Rand being interviewed. The most remarkable thing about watching her talk was her eyes. I can only describe them as extraordinarily alert as if millions of ideas were trying to get out. My favorite quote from her interview was something like:

I feel sorry for all of you when I die. You will cease to exist.

The twinkle in her eye and her smile as she said this gave a glimpse into her sense of humor and personality.

Love her or hate her, she was a remarkable person. I wonder if she had lived later what her views on smoking and the environment would have been. She wasn't a fan of lazy people on the dole, but did seem to favor anyone, rich or poor, who took responsibility of their own destiny.

No, they slept together. I'll find the link when I have time, but they were definitely lovers.

OK, my bad, can't find the link so will have to defer and admit defeat. :)

First time I've ever been wrong (and first time I've ever lied, too).

Ayn Rand's "philosophy" is all kinds of horrible and negative. If Ayn Rand had her way every homeless shelter and soup kitchen would be closed and people would starve to death in the streets.

The only people worth anything in Ayn Rand's world are multi-millionaire businessmen.

She said a lot of really nasty things about working class people, if you aren't rich then Ayn Rand considers you sub-human.

She developed quite the personality cult around herself, not unlike Joseph Smith.

Also when she immigrated to the USA she had a lot of help by expatriot Russians in America, several of which had connections in hollywood which allowed her to launch her screenwriting career. Then she goes onto say all charity is evil.

Awful person.

Convert Wrote:
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> The only people worth anything in Ayn Rand's world
> are multi-millionaire businessmen.
>
> She said a lot of really nasty things about
> working class people, if you aren't rich then Ayn
> Rand considers you sub-human.

Ayn Rand was not a multi-millionaire businesswoman, and nor were most of her friends. As far as I know, none of them had been rich all of their lives.

One of Ayn Rand's characters in Atlas Shrugged was Eddie Willers, whom she regarded as a perfectly moral man. He was not a rich tycoon. She portrayed other good characters as well that weren't rich.

Convert, you either don't know what you are talking about, or you are dishonestly misrepresenting Ayn Rand's ideas. Either way, you shouldn't be talking about her ideas.

To donser: you will hear a lot of misrepresentations of Ayn Rand like the one above from Convert. I would urge you to read the firsthand literature and judge Rand's ideas for yourself.

All I ever see are posts saying how horrible she was.

I would say that yes :). As for the philosophy I will follow...I will exam different philosophies based upon their merits. For now, secular humanism gives me the most room to grow. I believe in the golden rule, being a good citizen, contributing to my community, and being a good person.

Something to think about in regard to Secular Humanism: Secular Humanists like Sam Harris tend to act as though they are making original contributions to philosophy. However, in the field of ethics, they almost always adopt a pedestrian variant of an older theory called Utilitarianism.

Utilitarianism is the theory that one should always pursue the "greatest good of the greatest number."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism

As an ethical theory, Utilitarianism suffers from a problem in defining the nature of values. If you look at actual values around you, every value is a value *to* someone. A car is a value *to* the person who uses it. A house is a value *to* the person(s) who live(s) in it. A lover is a value *to* the other lover.

When Utilitarianism says that each person should pursue the "greatest good," it does not answer the question of *Whose good?* (ie whose values?)

In any given situation, are you to pursue your good, your neighbor's good, your other neighbor's good, the good of people in New Orleans, or Africa?

Utilitarianism leaves you at sea when it comes to this question.
Who is to be the beneficiary of any given action?

As I said, this is something to think about as you consider which philosophy to adopt.

Why not religious humanism ?

Just so we're on the same page, please review:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism

This includes people like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Albert Einstein.

lol, silly closed minded republicans. If they new anything about secular humanism..they call it a religion because they don't understand it and are scared and threatened by it.

I wouldn't say that Secular Humanism is a religion, but I would say that many Secular Humanists tend to get their morality from philosophers that took religious altruism and dropped God from the picture. They took "the good is sacrifice for God," and made it, "the good is sacrifice for others." The others might be called the community, the nation, the world, the family, the disadvantaged, etc.

In both cases, the moral is held to be the sacrifice of your own values (in this world) to someone else.