It has been a long time since I've been to church or been around mormons and I'm curious about what they believe to be true about Jesus. Maybe those who have deeper insight can help me out. However, because Jesus would have taught the "full" gospel (which was later corrupted and then restored by Joe) these things must have been true:

1. He was created by a physical, carnal union. (I've heard Mormons believe God came to earth and had literal, physical sex with Mary, although why God needed to commit adultery with Joseph's wife is still a mystery. After all, God didn't see the need to intervene in person to create the greatest human ever, Mr. Joseph Smith.)

2. He would have married multiple wives in the temple, in accordance with the "full" gospel.

3. He would have had many children and been sealed to them.

4. After his resurrection he would be rejoined by his family in the Celestial Kingdom (presumably).

5. Because he's perfect he and his wife must have been made gods and are presiding over another world in the vast universe, continuing the everlasting cycle.

Is that right?

Last I heard, the Mormons profess that the man Jesus was/is
the same entity as the God Jehovah (YHWH) of the Hebrew
Bible. He sat in on the grand Council of the Gods, before
the physical creation of the earth, etc. etc.

It's hard to get Mormons to talk about Jehovah's polygamy.
The best I could ever get out them was a statement from an
Institute teacher, that it was "theoretically possible."

Jehovah appears to have been promoted to godhood without
having to go through all the usual steps for eternal
progression. Mormons are hard to pin down on the details
of the God that walked and talked with Adam in the Garden.
Did He have a body of flesh and bone, or was he a spirit?

Let us know if you can get a definite 2013 GA-authorized
straight answer.

UD

The way I remember learning about Mormon mythology (I'm BIC, btw) (and this is just how I remember it so take it for what it's worth) is thusly:

Jesus is our spirit brother, one of the first born of Elohim. Jehovah is the God of the OT and is actually Jesus. This never made sense to me... why did Elohim just let Jesus play God for OT times? Why was Jesus so favored among all the rest of the spirit children?

Anyway, Jesus was conceived via Mary and Elohim and is considered to be the literal son of God. That said, I was never taught that it was through physical sex because Mary was still a virgin. Some others on the board have said that Mormons believe it was actual sex that conceived Jesus but I was never taught that growing up.

Since leaving the church, I've heard that Mormons believe that Jesus had wives and children but I never learned that growing up. Just learned that Jesus suffered for our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane (not on the cross as Christians believe), was resurrected after 3 days, blah blah.

Mormons believe that Jesus' first coming to earth was a meek baby and his second will be that of the destroyer. He will punish the sinful and wicked and save the righteous. All the Mormons will gather in the Garden of Eden in Missouri.

That's all I can really remember. Insane, isn't it? Of course the Christian version isn't any more sane either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2013 01:13PM by cecil0812.

but only to a certain extent. Those are points of doctrine that are sourced in early and obscure texts (mostly hidden in The Journal of Discourses). However, most members don't believe those things because they are not taught. At least, not all that often.

I had heard that Jesus was married, but didn't believe it (I was 10). I had heard another member tell me that it didn't bother him that "God had sex with Mary," but I didn't believe that, either.

Most members don't know that early leaders taught that whole list, or at least tried to. This is why they need to be hit repeatedly with The Journal of Discourses. It's all in there.

CTRringturnsmyfingergreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> 2. He would have married multiple wives in the
> temple, in accordance with the "full" gospel.
...

Apostle Orson Hyde taught that the wedding at Cana was
that of Jesus and one of his plural wives. Had Orson
thought a little more carefully, he would have instead
proclaimed the Cana gathering to have been a mere public
reception, following a Temple marriage in Jerusalem. And,
that if the bride's parents had not received their
endowments, they could not have attended the actual
sealing.

It's all absurdities -- one atop the next -- all the way down.

UD

On your number 1 above, you will find that little tidbit in the Journal of Discourses under Bringem' Young.

As for the rest, here are a few bullet points.

a. We all existed before the earth was created as spirit beings. Jesus and Satan/Lucifer (or whoever you want to call him) were Elohim's first two born under his godhood.
b. God presented his plan to create the earth and so forth blah blah blah.
c. Satan said he would change the plan just a tiny bit and he would come down and be our "controller" and make sure that no one was lost due to that crazy idea of free choice.
d. Jesus said he would do things the way Elohim out lined them and god chose Jesus.
e. There was a war between those following Jesus and those following Satan.
f. Jesus' side won and Satan and his followers were thrown out of the bar by the bouncers.
g. Jesus then came and created the earth.
h. Then the whole new testament thing and Jesus was sacraficed. (Side note. What kind of father sacrafices his first born son? WTF?)
j. God performed a little necromancy and brought Jesus back from the dead where he visited a few folks including the nonexistent lamanites who covered all of the land now called North and South America, yeah right.
k. Now Jesus sits on a big golden throne next to god waiting for the end of this earth he created when he will come down and obliterate the unworthy people and save the righteous ones.
l. Oh and by the way, mormons believe Jesus did get married and lived a normal life until he was crucified leaving a family in need of a father and husband, but its ok because god took good care of them.

For the morg supposedly Jesus is number two to God, or in the words of the great Captin Picard, "Number One". The holy ghost is number 3 but nobody knows exactly who he really is. Don't forget though that Joseph Smith has done more for humanity except for perhaps Jesus than any other human being that has ever lived on this earth. So really I guess it is a toss up between Joseph Smith and the Holy Ghost who is really number 3.

If I remember correctly, James Talmage in his book, Jesus the Christ, said that it was unlikely that Jesus was ever married. I guess this means that, according to Mormon doctrine, Jesus Christ isn't worthy of exaltation.

It was taught widely in the Morg in the 1950s and 1960s that Jesus was the offspring of god the father and the virgin Mary. Some tried to argue for the holy ghost as the father, but that didn't fly because--depending on the obscure source--the holy ghost was a female figure. JS really screwed it up when he wrote in one of the BoM Nephis that Jesus remarked, "On the morrow come I into the world." That image of a fetus who had learned the language--reformed Egyptian or any other--and was making pronouncements from out of his mother's uterus, proved what a rush JS was in to get his book out there pulling in some needed gold--plates or otherwise. The whole scene was clearly a fairy tale created by a con man and his buddy Mr. Cowdery. As Uncle correctly observes, "It's all absurdities." But then, there is no evidence whatever in historical records that Jesus Christ even existed--although there may have been a few Jesuses about, since it was a common name. Had there been a Jesus Christ, he wouldn't have recognized the name Jesus Christ. So, lacking that, Christianity fails, so one need not even mess with mormonism. BY was emphatic that the so-called atonement was only a half-way measure and that such angels as Porter Rockwell and Bill Hickman were divine agents. So basically, except for propaganda purposes, neither JS nor BY had much use for "Jesus Christ" at all. The title is important to those who engage in testimony bearing, but Morgs generally don't have much use for Jesus otherwise, and pass over the bible for the BoM whenever they can. Because, except for Ms. Rowling's novels, the BoM is the most correctly translated of any piece in print.

Thanks everyone for the laughs. It's a real mind-bender trying to follow the logic (I know there isn't any) of Mormon doctrine, back to its (presumably) logical origins (which of course is a "bunch of absurdities"). I think it's fun to take the doctrine and run it backwards to Elohim because it seems to shine a bright light on the absurdity of it.

I don't believe in christianity either. I was forced to go to Mormon church until about age 16, at which point I had fornicated and began drinking, so my soul was already gone.

At this point I'm merely curious as to what it was that I was taught, since I wasn't listening at the time. Good fun.

BIC, I was taught that I selected my awful parents in a pre-life. That was a concept my awful parents really appreciated, and they were vocal about it.

Jesus drank only grape juice, which was called wine, but not fermented, which was called "wine of the vine." My idiot father told me.

Jesus is a Mormon, only he has higher rank, equal to the prophet.

The Book of Mormon is more "accurate and complete" than the bible. And it's an important testament to Jesus, who has a cameo appearence in it.

Jesus and Satan are brothers and had meetings before the world existed.

Whenever my annoying father was run out of town by angry people (it happened twice in my teens), he claimed that the spirit of Jesus told him to move on.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2013 05:41PM by donbagley.

A BYU New Testiment professior told the class something like: some mormons think there was a metaphysical process where HF's sperm came into Mary's viJJ, but real mormon's K N O W the process was completely natural. He then went on to disucss some of his interactions with BKP, who of course, questioned him of his unworthiness regarding his mind or sprit block to personal private reveltion vs his collegue that had spiritual experiences gallore.

flyindoc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A BYU New Testiment professior told the class
> something like: some mormons think there was a
> metaphysical process where HF's sperm came into
> Mary's viJJ, but real mormon's K N O W the process
> was completely natural. He then went on to
> disucss some of his interactions with BKP, who of
> course, questioned him of his unworthiness
> regarding his mind or sprit block to personal
> private reveltion vs his collegue that had
> spiritual experiences gallore.

So -- an extraterrestrial Eloheim was able to mate with
and impregnate an earth girl? Totally compatible DNA?
Humans cannot cross-breed with chimps because of a
minor DNA change that happened about a million years ago.
Are we to believe that Eloheim's distant ancestors went
through that same genetic mutation, off on planet Kolob?

Besides which, Eloheim has a celestialized body of flesh
and bone ----> no blood. How does a bloodless body manage
to produce sperm?

This garbage is worse than Scientology!

UD