My therapist even diagnosed me with it some years back. How do you get out of it? I don't know. I made it out though.
For me it happened because there were so many overwhelming situations in my life--no matter how hard I tried, it just kept getting worse. I'd conquer one thing and 5 more things would happen. I still have those things happen, but I USUALLY don't let it stop me. I do have the immediate feeling of helplessness, but then I can process it and pull myself up.
Prozac was a big problem. I found it made me feel painfully numb. I'd lay on the bed and not want to get up, knowing I needed to, but really couldn't. As my boyfriend calls it, "Wading through mud." Nope, I'd call it wading through drying cement. It seems like every movement takes untold energy.
I had kids I had to raise--so I kept moving--and eventually it did get a lot better. Eventually, I did make huge changes in my life. But I still fight it. No matter how good things get, I oftentimes find myself slipping.
I must add--LOTS OF THERAPY.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2013 10:40AM by cl2.
Thank you for your answer. I think I am in a situation similar to yours. Your strategy seems very good and I guess it is a question about gaining knowledge. You seem to have it and are able to process your helplessness.
I Stopped drinking some weeks ago and the last couple of days I have got more aware of a persistent feeling I have that I do not really get anywhere in life. Just like you, I try to solve my problems but things just get worse and new problems are added. I think I started to drink in an abnormal way because I could not live with my helplessness. It is hard to get a job and I do not feel mentally fit today for an education. No friends because my old friends were no real friends and I really do not like people because I was abandoned by my community and can not trust them anymore. So it is like being stuck.
But I hope that is a situation that will change with time and I will try to be stronger.
that my gay husband left me. I had 2 children to raise and was only working part-part time when he left. His leaving put me into a deep depression of course. AND I was on Prozac. My job was working at home and it required of me to be self-motivated. My ex didn't give me much money per month and the debt just got worse and worse as I used credit to pay bills. I'd sleep all day and take my kids to get something to eat on credit in the evenings. At least I drove them to school and picked them up!?! My one accomplishment of the day back then.
We eventually ended up in bankruptcy and who paid the bankruptcy? I did. I had to force myself to work and it was NEVER enough no matter how many hours I worked. I had gone on for several years like this and then one day decided to ask a friend (who I had trained in my job--medical transcription) to hire me to work in the office for the company she was a manager at--same thing medical transcription. I really needed structure. I took a 30% cut in pay to work for her and kept my other job, too. My therapist cheered when he found out I'd made this move--just out of the blue. It was one of the steps in the right direction.
Eventually, I paid off the bankruptcy (after 8 years). My ex and I made peace and he moved here 6 or so years ago and finally took over HALF the bills 2 years ago. I am a real pushover. He should have been paying half all along.
I had no self-esteem whatsoever and had gained a lot of weight, but when my old boyfriend became available, I forced myself to get in touch and I've been in a relationship with him for 8 years. He just moved here from Colorado (Utah).
For me, I could lay in bed for weeks and then one day I'd find the energy to get up and do something productive. Just making the step of applying for a job--any job--ANY JOB just to get yourself out of the house and around people.
My son has been through a divorce at age 21 and I see him going through the same things I did--as he lays in there sleeping. He quit his job and was unemployed for a year about 3 years ago and he never left the house. Now he is back at his old job. Isn't the greatest job--BUT IT IS A JOB. He works as a cook at a restaurant. He says the best part of his life--and when he feels the best is when he is at work. He is right now trying to make some changes--maybe move to my sister's in Idaho. There is a job available for him should he choose to go. He went up last week and interviewed (after she had asked him 2 years ago). I know one day he'll do it, but it has to be ON HIS TERMS.
The more people tried to force me to do things, the less I wanted to.
On a good day--try to go out and apply for a job OR if you know someone who could get you a job. That is how my son got his current job. I sit out here and know my son is going through what I did and I want to pick him up and move him forward, but it has to come from within.
My therapist actually would assign me things like just going to get the mail everyday. Nothing more than going to get the mail. Then with my work, he'd tell me to do 5 reports and then take a 30 minute break. Instead of it being a huge undertaking, he had me chop it up into smaller pieces.
You can e-mail me if you would like. I think my e-mail address is available if you click on my moniker.
**I should add--as I tried to say in my post--that I had to wait for the stronger days. They may be only one in 30 to 90 or less. There were days I could make a step forward. Also--I was abandoned by everyone, too. Even the ward members liked my ex better. They didn't know the whole story and I didn't tell them. My family--I've always been the enabler for my family. They KNEW I could take care of myself and, at the same time, they came to dump their problems on me. I even took in 2 family members going through difficult times in the worst years. AND of course even my ex left me to pick up the pieces. The day our dog got killed--my son tells me he has never felt so alone as we were that day. It was the worst day of my life. That was 16 years ago. My twins were 11.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2013 11:37AM by cl2.
The core beliefs underlying learned helplessness are
Bad events are permanent and good events are temporary. Bad things will never get better.
This is ruining my life. There is nothing good about my life.
It's all my fault.
One way to deal with this is to challenge each of these core beliefs by finding exceptions to them. It's not always easy to do since we naturally tend to pay more attention to the bad and give it more weight. You have to make a conscious effort to change the core beliefs to ones that are more realistic and helpful.
The way goal setting was handled in my mission and my buying into it set me up to experience learned helplessness. I got through it, but it took some time and some experiences contrary to my negative beliefs.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2013 10:47AM by robertb.
In the middle of it right now, struggling... 20 years as Stepford Molly-ness has made me so small I hardly recognize myself & it is a real struggle to *suddenly* be responsible for a myriad of life-situations for which I was/am woefully unprepared,, then plummetting self-worth because who in hell doesn't know how to take care of simple grown-up responsibilities...not to mention adult relationships. Thanks for the helpful ideas, robertb & cl2. Thanks for this thread too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2013 11:59AM by brownie.
This could have been written by me. The cycle is vicious, and I am just now climbing out of it. I can see the light ahead, and I never thought I would. The church cultivates, encourages this behavior, in order to force members to be dependent on ldsinc. I think the women & girls in particular, ( I am totally biased based on personal experience, so this might not be true for everyone).
What's working for me: Therapy, therapy, therapy. Good friends, strong support, (aka Rfm). Lots of tears and lots of laughter. Learning to forgive oneself, little pieces at a time. Taking time to take care of myself. Education in the basics: finances, home maintenance, social skills. I am a huge introvert, INFJ, but I make myself go to social stuff with friends, even if it's just to observe and learn how "normal" people interact with each other. Educating myself on current issues and exploring both sides/most sides of each situation.
It is tedious and exhausting as hell, but it is SO worth it. I never cease to be surprised and often delighted by this crazy world. I'm pulling for you, all of you :)
But unfortunately, I do know someone (raised in an abusive TSCC household) who is definitely this way. I wish this person the best, but it seems like this person can never get out of the helplessness cycle. It's vicious and tragic, especially because there are children involved.
It may sound odd. What does narcissism have to do with helplessness?
I recently read "Trapped in the Mirror" about adult children of narcissists. I highly recommend it, although neither of my parents may be narcissists. My tbm grandpa certainly was....never heard him admit to being wrong.
Anyway, I suspect that learned helplessness is related to a narcissistic or very controlling parent. Nothing is ever right. Approval is rare (if ever). Things need to be done in a certain way. Only certain people/ideas (particularly moism) are of worth.
I think some fundamentalists can be incredibly narcissitic.
Without a parent or person who loved unconditionally, children are robbed of a sense of self. They're robbed of approval from parents...just for being themselves. No one ever takes responsibility for themselves, their feelings and actions. Anyway, by accepting yourself and your abilities, recovering from this insane family structure...Learned helplessness can be overcome (IMO).
ava - thanks for the book recommend - I downloaded it onto Kindle and I'm already 1/4 of the way through it. I could hardly put it down and probably wouldn't have, except my Kindle needed to be recharged. My parents were so self-focused while I was growing up and pretty controlling but I'm not sure they were narcissists. Still, a lot of the scenarios sound familiar - it really does apply to a lot of people. Plus, there is someone in my life I've been trying to figure out for a while and this book seems to be describing them perfectly. Great book!
Learned helplessness is a response to being put in a situation where you have no control over something painful being done to you. You cannot predict it, avoid it, or stop it. At some point, even when control or escape is possible, you do not take it because you no longer believe in the possibility.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2013 04:20AM by robertb.
For ava, I think I have a whole group of narcissists in my life. My older sister--17 months older--is a narcissist. It was my job to "handle" her all my life. We had a falling out when I started getting better.
My ex--though we get along great now--he did put me in a position where I had no control to what was happening to me, but he was VERY controlling. I couldn't even load the dishwasher correctly. He knows nowadays he has to behave a certain way or he is out of my life.
I actually had to learn to concentrate all my energies on what I COULD CONTROL. It really does help.
I would recommend Martin Seligman's book Learned Optimism. He did the original research on learned helplessness. It was helpful for me and it's very readable.
Oh man, I feel like this so often in my life. I think when you are taught as a child that you have no control over your life, you start to lay around, hoping someone else will take the reigns.
I find that yes, challenging the underlying beliefs is helpful. I also find taking small steps in the directions of empowerment is also helpful.
I started by eating healthier and getting more exercise. My next goal is to do more meditation.
I am back in school for my master's degree, which I would have never imagined doing 5 years ago. Still though, there are times when I feel a little paralyzed, like the roof is going to cave in on me...I guess that's where the continual therapy and meditation come in.
By the way, I think as a woman in a very patriarchal society, it's a common practice to teach learned helplessness- that you need a man to ever be able to get anywhere in life. I just think so often, if only I knew what I know now 10 years ago, I would have this fabulous career already, own my own home, and not worry about who paid for the damn date cuz I'd have money enough to do so.
I think the feeling of not being able to control one's destiny is exactly how I felt growing up TBM.
I felt like all the important decisions, and even simple little ones like what to drink and eat were made for me - but I didn't like those decisions.
I have recently seen these same effects on a TBM young woman I know, who is anorexic. Why? It seems to me it's due to a feeling of powerlessness. I don't know that this is the same thing as learned helplessness, though.
Thought I would jump start this thread, see if it has any more legs or if it needs to fade away.
Had never heard of this before. RobertB refers to Seligman.
One of the things I like about his work he takes on BigPharma and human biochemistry, genetics, and things that can be modified through willpower and chemicals.
When you take away the Mormon soul, the Mormon pre-existence there becomes a vacuum that science can discuss, but what is to be done after the cult wiring is in place.
I have found the PhD level-expertise on post-Mormon challenges lacking. Since the exMormon market is growing, it seems the expertise in dealing with the needs of exMormons should be growing as well.