...and helping him or her position the gun to their head and goading them to pull the trigger.

All this bullshit the LDS has been pouring out about "we love the gays, and we don't advocate trying to 'change' them" all the while swimming around in this Prop 8 garbage was just negated. BKKKP explicitly and without hesitation said that all gay people can become straight if they try hard enough, and that clearly homosexual behavior is an 'addiction'. Evil, immoral, unclean, against nature...these are all things we've heard before, but over the past 10 years, the Morg leadership has not been quite this forthcoming about their hatred toward the gay community.

It's no wonder gay suicides are on the rise. We've heard all over the news about young people killing themselves because they were bullied about being gay. Boydie's hate rhetoric spewed forth from the pulpit is almost worse than schoolyard bullying, because in this context, God and one's eternal salvation are involved.

If there is an afterlife, I really hope this asshole is held accountable for what I fear will be even more gay suicides in the near future because of the words he spoke. When he comes face to face with the families of these people, whether in this life or the next, he's made to feel as inferior as he's making other people feel.

And it has a ripple effect. I obviously wasn't righteous enough to save my ex, my two aunts who have gay children and their ay children and their gay children's ex spouses and their children. I would love to pick my daughter's brain after that talk. I had no clue that was said yesterday until I came here last night. As I stated on another thread, I was supposed to BE THERE. I was going to go with her so she didn't have to go with any mormon friends she has here in Utah. I cannot imagine if I had been sitting there.

This is exactly the same type of shit he was spewing forth 27-1/2 years ago when I found out my ex is gay. (Gosh, GayLayAle, you must have been just a young boy at that time!) NOTHING HAS CHANGED. I've said all along--that NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

I have yet to go read Emily Pearson's blog today--I need to. I keep forgetting.

As I said elsewhere, I will be resigning. He finally pushed me over the edge--and I will be writing him another letter. I will resign with my ex.

The hope that TSCC was changing re: homosexuality was just blown up. They have not changed their position from the days of JFS and BRM.

If EVERYONE in the church who (1) had a gay family member, (2) had a gay friend, or (3) who simply sees gays as being as human as everyone else (and therefore entitled to the SAME civil rights;)

were to either resign (loss of tithing income for the church) or (for BICs who can't bring themselves to resign) to withdraw from activity AND *WITHHOLD TITHING* UNTIL THE CHURCH CHANGED ITS POLICIES, the church would HAVE to sit up and pay attention!!!

As is painfully obvious, trying to change the hearts of the leadership is a dead end.

It will take members' uniting and INSISTING on this, and/or members leaving in droves, before any changes will be made.

""Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"

I will celebrate his death.

The sad truth is that most family members--including my aunts--don't see the need to leave the church. One aunt (who recently passed away) was very accepting and supportive of her gay child--my other aunt feels he needs to CHANGE. He is an alcoholic. He has a child who is about 3 years old. He got married at age 35 (under coercion) and he had a child at age 43. His ex-wife has been devastated by all of this. This cousin still hates himself.

My other cousin is in a long-term relationship.

My daughter watched our situation unfold--and she still believes. She thinks her dad needs to top having sex with men--but she really likes all his gay friends--especially one.

Dear Mikey,

You are awesome.

That's all.

Dear roger-

The feeling is quite mutual!

Love,

Mikey

Why would anyone care what a 90 year old, feeble, sad, pathetic man has to say about anyones life style. See this person for who he is. Yes, his message carries influence among members of the Church. But, not all. Gays are targets, so are women with a mind of their own, people who have never read a history book, democrats, converts with non member relations and people who don't get married in the temple or God forbid have sex before marriage. The only person you need for approval is yourself and whatever higher power you believe in.

But unhappy and confused young adults who think that the voice of god speaks through him are in great danger of believing he has and destroying themselves because they do.

Another voice of agreement here w/GLA's comments.

Interesting timing, too. I am embarrassed to admit this, but I am in my mid 40s and just came out to my mom on Saturday (a story for another day), but in the course of our conversation she brought up the "apology" as a sign that things were getting better in the morg. I told her that in all probability the conference session on at that very minute would have SOMETHING in it that would totally undo any supposed apology. Ok, it didn't happen in the Saturday pm meeting, but it sure didn't take long for me to be right. She was so cool and supportive that it actually made me a little embarrassed for her that something this vile popped out immediately to contradict her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2010 04:52PM by Inverso.

Don't be embarrassed about coming out in your 40's. Everyone has their own time to do it, and that just happened to be yours.

I think it's great!

Thanks for the supportive words!

I feel good - no regrets for doing it. But I'll need to work on not feeling like I've been a fucking coward (Dan Savage term). It is tough since I have a younger sister who came out when I was maybe 18 and has gotten the family pretty well trained by now. Obviously she was the first I talked to since she deserved a huge apology for taking this hit alone when she shouldn't have had to. She may not have been driven to suicide by the hostile and negative messages of TSCC about who she was, but it drove her to some stuff that was equally self-destructive and could have had the same result.

...the older we get, the more difficult it is to be honest with who we are, just because we've lived life differently for so long.

The self-destructive behavior that your sister was involved in is unfortunately all too common. I went through it myself before I came out, but I came out the other side a much stronger person.

I offer this up to everyone who is coming out and coming to terms with who they are, but if you ever need support or someone to talk to, please don't hesitate to email me.

mikeygoestohollywood@gmail.com

Inverso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another voice of agreement here w/GLA's comments.
>
> Interesting timing, too. I am embarrassed to admit
> this, but I am in my mid 40s and just came out to
> my mom on Saturday (a story for another day), but
> in the course of our conversation she brought up
> the "apology" as a sign that things were getting
> better in the morg. I told her that in all
> probability the conference session on at that very
> minute would have SOMETHING in it that would
> totally undo any supposed apology. Ok, it didn't
> happen in the Saturday pm meeting, but it sure
> didn't take long for me to be right. She was so
> cool and supportive that it actually made me a
> little embarrassed for her that something this
> vile popped out immediately to contradict her.

TSCC doesn't deserve people like our parents to be members, does it? ;o))

That's what I keep telling her! She responded by email today saying that her faith is in JC, not the organization, etc. I think the mental gymnastics would be less strenuous in the local UU congregation...

> TSCC doesn't deserve people like our parents to be
> members, does it? ;o))

If it were in my power, I'd have you charged with murder in the very next case of a gay man driven to suicide.

It is so sad that TSCC's leaders rely on their old tired bigotry and prejudices and attempt to hoist them onto the Mormon membership as something real and pertenant to today's society at large. Never mind that those with experience in dealing with this sort of issue in a non-condemning way all say something contradictory to their point of view.

Mormon's claim that "man" looks to the exterior of a person to pass judgment on him while God supposedly looks into his heart. But when it comes to being gay, here these guys are looking at an exterior (i.e. behaviors) and assigning terms like "'addiction'. Evil, immoral, unclean, against nature" (I haven't heard the talk, just repeating what I read here). But in our hearts, we are gay regardless of our behavior. A gay person in a relationship with an opposite sex partner is still gay. I know ... been there, done that.

I am trying to contain my anger and sadness over hearing this news. All this will do is continue to tear families apart and continue to undermine those who are at their most vulnerable and in need of understanding and compassion.

who claim that the church now advocates a more moderate, loving stance toward people who "suffer with same-sex attraction" (their words, definitely not mine).

They say one thing out of one side of their mouths, but I lived too long in Mormondumb to ignore what's coming out of the other side.

Weasel-like mincing of words and misunderstanding homosexuality fundamentally in order to protect their beliefs in the church are bad enough. This is beyond disgusting. I've got no respect for that turd, or for anyone who would defend him.

Btw, the HRC is on the case with an open letter to BKP:

http://bit.ly/bZAaPO

If being gay were actually a "choice", then why would so many gays choose to die rather than choose to change their sexuality?

According to the church, it should be simple: After all, being straight isn't so terrible that you'd rather die first, is it?


If it really IS a "choice", shouldn't it be like deciding to have the chicken instad of the beef at a restaurant? So, who would say:

"Sure, I can like beef too, but I think I'd rather die anyway."

Thanks for posting this. I am not a Mormon, but belonged to an extremely conservative Catholic branch. I unknowingly married a gay man and we are in the process of divorcing. He has yet to come out fully.

I noticed where Boyd mentioned that the church no longer encourages gay men to marry. Well, it doesn't matter, if they are not accepted by their church, their families, their God, they will do whatever it takes to fit in and survive- this means marrying a woman and having a child.

Being married to a closeted gay man is hell. Watching your closeted gay spouse, who you dearly love, self destruct is hell. Trying to get your life back and wondering what it means to be a woman after losing your self esteem is hell.

This is a situation where no one wins. No loving God would ever, ever want this. This is not life and love, it is the epitome of pain and hell.

I cannot understand why Mormons and any other zealous religious folks worry about eternal salvation and going to hell. They are already living in a hell, so why would an eternity of it even matter?

but they always cover their butt some way.

I agree that family members and friends should stop supporting The Church of Prop-hate.

I just want you people to know that over the summer, four of my friends have left the cult, over the gay issue. Let's hope the trickle will break into a flood.

Two of the friends who resigned are a couple that I've known since BYU. Their adoped son turned out to be gay. Their adopted daughter resigned too.

The fourth person mailed her resignation letterjust last week. She had been trying to protest Prop 8 from within the cult, but finally realized it was useless, and by attending and paying tithing, she was only supporting the beast. Her brother has been openly gay, ever since I can remember, and he left the cult years ago.

Knowing what has happened with LDS families I've known with gay family members, most of the siblings are no longer Mormon. It seems to me, that for every gay Mormon who leaves the cult, they take several members along with them. This is encouraging.

We gotta do that video.

You are absolutely correct. The church has spent millions trying to soften its image, and Darth Packer's speech has destroyed that in a matter of minutes. Today, my non-Mormon gay friends were emailing and calling me about it. The gay press is all over it. It just reignites the Prop 8 backlash.

The timing couldn't be worse. On Friday, Ellen spoke out about the Rutgers student's suicide. On Sunday, Darth Packer was trying to push gay Mormons to suicide.

The church can't evolve as long as Packer can speak. They had to wait for McConkie to die before they could fully accept blacks. I wonder how many of these old farts have to move on before they can accept their own gay children.


GayLayAle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...and helping him or her position the gun to
> their head and goading them to pull the trigger.
>
> All this bullshit the LDS has been pouring out
> about "we love the gays, and we don't advocate
> trying to 'change' them" all the while swimming
> around in this Prop 8 garbage was just negated.
> BKKKP explicitly and without hesitation said that
> all gay people can become straight if they try
> hard enough, and that clearly homosexual behavior
> is an 'addiction'. Evil, immoral, unclean, against
> nature...these are all things we've heard before,
> but over the past 10 years, the Morg leadership
> has not been quite this forthcoming about their
> hatred toward the gay community.
>
> It's no wonder gay suicides are on the rise. We've
> heard all over the news about young people killing
> themselves because they were bullied about being
> gay. Boydie's hate rhetoric spewed forth from the
> pulpit is almost worse than schoolyard bullying,
> because in this context, God and one's eternal
> salvation are involved.
>
> If there is an afterlife, I really hope this
> asshole is held accountable for what I fear will
> be even more gay suicides in the near future
> because of the words he spoke. When he comes face
> to face with the families of these people, whether
> in this life or the next, he's made to feel as
> inferior as he's making other people feel.

From BKKKP's perspective- if a gay dude/gal pulls that trigger on themselves BEFORE acting on their gay impulses, then SALVATION!! RIGHT?

In my 37 years on this planet, I have come to the realisation that gay people are the most loving, compassionate, kind, caring, well spoken and courteous folk in the world.

Ironically, all the values that christians aspire to.

Sure, there are a-holes amongst this section of society, but no group is perfect.

If I wasn't an atheist, I would go as far as saying gay folk are really angels.

I hope Mr Packer reads this. I also hope he snuffs it sometime soon.

I don't want to defend the Mormon church too much but I have a feeling that many of the 12 were probably somewhat embarrassed over Darth Packer's tirade. Because he's the #2 guy, he gets to say what he wants to say. I hope the old bastard dies soon. The Mormon Church will be a much better institution without him.