Sorry if this is a little long, but I promise it's got a lot of juicy stuff in it! Much thanks to those who commented on my previous post about his letter to help me write this. Going to mail this off tomorrow or Tuesday, so if there is anything I may have left out that may be vital let me know.


Response to letter found at:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,861084,861084,quote=1



Dear _______,

Thank you for letter. I would like to confirm that I do understand what happens when our names are removed from the church, but frankly I am not concerned about the loss of any blessings from the ordinances received from the church. If the church isn't true than I have nothing to fear. Joseph Fielding Smith said in his book Doctrines of Salvation: "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground."

I just want it to be known that I did not make this decision lightly. I am not leaving the church because of sin, laziness or being offended. I have literally spent nearly all my free time for years researching hundreds of church approved books, Scriptures, attending conferences, etc. I loved reading church history and I was a big defender of its doctrines. However I did many times overlook and ignore things that I did not understand, and tucked them away. I learned this from reading what President Kimball's wife taught, which was when you read things you don't understand about the church, just put it on the shelf, and maybe someday later you'll find an answer for it. I followed this advice for a long time. Things like blood atonement, the Adam/God doctrine, Mountain Meadows massacre, etc. I would just push these into the back of my mind and try to not worry about them. But then I recently came across things that were too obvious for me to ignore. As I mentioned to you last week, I found that many stories in the Book of Mormon were already written before it was published in 1830.

The full story of Abinadi and Alma was in Pilgram's Progress. The story of the 2000 stripling warriors, the exact same travels of Lehi and his family, even the same money system mentioned in the Book of Mormon was from a non-fiction book called Marco Polo, to name a few. Then seeing that the First Vision story was also not original and already written in a fictional book called the Golden Pot, it truly broke my heart. I wasn't studying to prove the church false. I was studying because I loved the gospel and was hungry to learn more! You mentioned that possibly Satan could have inspired these books to make the Book of Mormon appear to be false. But if that were the case, he would have had to inspire the Bible as well. There are many verses in the Book of Mormon that took place before New Testament times, yet in many cases they quote the New Testament word for word. Then there are other huge errors that are very easy to prove false. For example 1 Nephi 1:4 mentions that Zedekiah was king of Jerusalem while Lehi and his family were there, yet he was not made king until after the destruction of Jerusalem, and then the Babylonians made Zedekiah a king in 2 Kings 24:17.

I have tried desperately to know the truth for myself, not just taking some one's word for it, and I did find it, I just didn't like what I found, nor did I expect it. This came through a lot of prayer and soul searching, and now the evidence is so clear that I'm surprised I never saw it before. But it's hard to see the truth when we are taught not to think for ourselves, and to just have faith. I do see now why the church sees the internet as a threat and encourages the membership not to study what is considered "anti-Mormon" literature, teachings of past prophets or church history ourselves, but only through the manuals at church which are carefully gone through and the controversial things are removed. Even missionaries are taught to lie about things. Last year we visited Brigham Young's mansion in Salt Lake and asked the missionaries there how many of Brigham's wives lived there, and they both said that they only knew that he had but one wife.

I write all this to express my sincerity of heart in pursuit of the truth. I am an honest man, and when I can be shown that I am wrong, I will admit it, which is why I am in the position I am in now. It took a lot of courage for me to be a Mormon living in California, and now it will take a great deal more courage to be a ex-Mormon living in Utah.

I do not attend church for social reasons, so the fear of loosing friends and acquaintances alone is not a reason for me to come back to the church. If there are people who decide they will no longer be a friend to me, my wife or children, just because of something I believe or don't believe, then they were only fair weather friends anyway. Latter Day Saints have always complained of being persecuted for their beliefs, yet some of them treat those who leave their church just as bad. I believe that a true church of Christ would focus more on loving their neighbors no matter what they believe. After all the 2nd greatest commandment according to Jesus is to love thy neighbor as thyself. He never taught that we should shun others, and many times the church has claimed that this does not happen, but
as you probably have seen it does happen whether we like it or not. I do hope though that you would encourage a more Christ-like attitude towards us in the ward.

My reason for sending the letter directly to the Church Offices and not reaching out to local leadership first was this: Many members that I have read about recently have gone to their bishops and stake presidents with many of the concerns I have, and they were either ignored, told to stop studying, or disciplined for apostasy, even with excommunication. The last ward I lived in, I actually did talk to my Stake President. He told me that he couldn't stop me from studying, but he said that by doing so I was walking a very dangerous line and suggested that I stop searching the so-called "mysteries" and just follow the council of the living prophets and that I wouldn't go astray. I did not argue with him because at the time I wanted to keep my church membership, but what he described was to have blind faith in a man, or group of men, and to stop my silly pursuit of the truth. That is when I lost confidence in the leadership to answer any of my doctrinal questions or concerns. I believe that truth trumps all arguments of just obeying and having faith. This same teaching was just taught last weekend in General Conference by President Monson: "There is no need for you or for me, in this enlightened age when the fullness of the gospel has been restored, to sail uncharted seas or to travel unmarked roads in search of truth. A loving Heavenly Father has plotted our course and provided an unfailing guide — even obedience."

I think that it would be wise for church leadership in the future to learn to be open and honest with their members when they come to them with doctrinal questions, instead of turning them away and making them feel like they have sinned when all they did was question. J. Reuben Clark made a statement about this that I read last year in his biography that I agree with 100%: "If we have truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not truth, it ought to be harmed." Members should be encouraged to study out things for themselves, and if it were truth they would be so much stronger for it. But it seems that most people that do get into the history and original doctrines of the church end up removing themselves from the church when they honestly can see the truth. I know I am not the only one, and because of the availability of information on the internet I would not be surprised that more people are leaving the church than joining right now.

In my letter to the Church Office I did state that I wanted no further contact from church leaders or membership. However I've given it more thought and I would like to rephrase this. Anyone is welcome to visit us as friends or neighbors, as long as they are not reconversion efforts towards me or my children. If you or anyone would like to have open and civil dialogues about gospel subjects, I would not mind that if it were by regular mail or e-mail. However I am sure of my decision to have my name removed from the church, and in doing so I mean no disrespect towards you or the ward.

As for my son going to Scouts we have allowed him to go because he really enjoys the friendships with the boys there. I really hope that no one would stoop so low as to teach their children to shun another child, but if so I feel very sorry for that kind of person and it would just confirm even more my decision about leaving the church where it's members would teach their children to hate another child of God. This would not be my fault because of my choice, but because of the false teaching from the church that all those who leave the church (apostates) are dangerous and should be avoided. This was taught in the early church as well as currently. Brigham Young said "I say, rather than that apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath my bowie knife, and conquer or die! Now, you nasty apostates, clear out, or judgment will be put to the line, and righteousness to the plummet!" Current leader Boyd K Packer has taught this "Remember: when you see the bitter apostate, you do not see only an absence of light, you see also the presence of darkness. Do not spread disease germs." I see these statements as evil and not inspired of God.

As for me teaching things to others in the ward, I stand by what I said that I am not out to destroy the testimonies of others. People should be free to believe what they wish to, and the only
time I would talk about what I have learned would be if someone asked me directly why I left. Even then I would be brief because I realize that it is very difficult to hear things that contradict one's beliefs if they are not ready to hear them. I would rather be on friendly terms with my friends and neighbors, and to live and let live. Also, you have my permission to tell anyone in the ward why I left, and you are welcome to share this letter with anyone you like.

I appreciate the time you took in visiting me and writing me. Forgive me if this letter comes off as offensive, I do not mean it as such. But I think it would be helpful for you and other church leaders to see that not all people leave the church because of sin or being offended, and that they should be treated as sons or daughters of God, no matter what they decide to believe. I hope that the church will move forward in teaching tolerance to all beliefs and love for all mankind. I truly respect your testimony and right to follow what you believe to be true, and I hope that in return you will do the same for me and will encourage those that you lead to do so as well.

Sincerely,
Don Quijote

Great letter but likely to fall on deaf ears. They will likely considered you left out of pride wanting to rely on your own reasoning instead of following the inspired councel of the Q15.

Good catch! I'll make sure to add pride to the list.

This is an excellent letter.

One thing (and forgive me if my memory is failing in this matter) -- is this the same bishop who told you that he would be forced to stand in front of the ward and tell them that you would be "spitting in the face of Jesus" by leaving? If so, I consider that remark slanderous and inflammatory. I would not trust him to tell others why you are leaving, as he seems to have no sense about what is appropriate or inappropriate to say. I would specifically constrain him on that matter, reminding him that slander is a very serious matter.

Oh no, that wasn't me. Closest thing I've heard to that is when my friend tried to leave his mission, and his MP told him that just asking to leave was like spitting in the face of Jesus.

Oh, good. That must have been another board member. My apologies.

Don Quijote (a wonderful name), I read your letter - its excellent. Personally, I like to leave irrefutable facts and sound logic in my closing arguments. Consider (in my humble opinion) placing the following in lieu of your last paragraph:

Bishop, I ask you to consider the following:
1) Is the LDS Church true? Mormons always answer YES.
2) Are all other churches false? Mormons always answer YES.
3) How do you know? Mormons often say, God and Jesus said so in the First Vision, and it says so in 1 Nephi of the Book of Mormon (all others are an abomination).
4) Well then, if you were to study the history of all the other churches would you be afraid to find out that one of them is true? NOPE Mormons say, because the LDS Church is true.
5) Then why be scared to study the history of the LDS Church if it is true?

God gave us our minds to think, our hearts to validate all truth, and agency to respect one another’s opinions. President Hugh B. Brown of the church’s first presidency gave a marvelous speech at BYU, “Man and What He May Become”, March 25, 1958. I suggest all men read and follow its wise counsel. President Brown stated, “I hope that you will develop the questing spirit. Be unafraid of new ideas for they are the stepping stones to progress. You will of course respect the opinions of others but be unafraid to dissent if you are informed.”

God gave us the Ten Commandments - we are not to lie or bare false witness. In his May 1982 Ensign article, “This is No Harm”, Elder Marvin J. Ashton (apostle) stated, “A lie is any communication given to another with the intent to deceive. . . a lie can be effectively communicated without words ever being spoken. Sometimes a nod of the head or silence can deceive. Recommending a questionable business investment, making a false entry in a ledger, devious use of flattery, or failure to divulge all pertinent facts are a few other ways to communicate the lie.”

Non-members are encouraged to leave their church or belief system, seek-out and embrace the “LDS” truth. Contrarily, existing LDS members are discouraged to seek-out and discover its true history. How could God have me believe that his divine process and restoration of the one true church through his one true prophet should be ignored? Facts don’t cease to exist because they’re ignored.

In Closing, I appreciate the time you took in visiting and writing to me. This letter may seem spirited, but it comes from my heart - and I think it would be helpful for you and other church leaders to see that not all people leave the church because of sin or being offended, and that they should be treated as sons or daughters of God, no matter what they decide to believe. I hope that the church will move forward in teaching tolerance to all beliefs and love for all mankind. I truly respect your right to follow your belief system, and I hope you will do the same for me and all those you lead as well.

DonQuijote P.S. If you want to claim any or all of the above text - go for it.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 09:46PM by jiminycricket.

This is golden, thank you!

Excellent!

Great letter now that letter is writing nicely!

I think it's a fine letter with no snark factor. It's just that he may just scan it with a disapproving look on his face and not take anything you say seriously. Still, you've done your part masterfully.

JiminyCricket's advice to use Ashton's words is also good advice, since it is a wonder to us all here how it is that they turn LDS teachings into "anti-Mormon" information, and how they overtly disapprove of lying whilst simultaneously lying themselves. All of us need to catch them in this and hold their feet to the fire.

Good luck with it.

Beautiful letter

WOW!!! Thankyou!!

Awesome, except I'd take the apology out of your last paragraph. You have nothing to apologize for. After all, Bednar would say it's the Bishop's fault if he gets offended.

"loosing friends" needs to be "losing friends"

"it's members" needs to be "its members"



I admire your letter and your thoughts.

couldn't decide myself whether to bother.

It's a excellent letter but I learned way back in Journalism 101 that most people have a very, very short attention span when reading. Especially when the bishop is reading something he has already made up his mind to disagree with. I'd use the same letter but be sure that the paragraphs are arranged in order of importance - the most important thing you want him to know should be in the first paragraph and then the second most important thing in the second paragraph and so on. It's called inverted pyramid style. That way, if you lose him part way through, you'll at least gotten your most important points across. Also, I'd use the fewest words possible, for the same reasons.

I really liked your evidences too and hope that you will talk more about the comparisons between Book of Mormon stories and the contemporary literature of Joseph Smith's days in another post here on RfM for us. Like you, I've studied a lot but I think I missed some of that stuff and would really like to know more.

Thanks, I'll play around with the order and see what fits best at the beginning.

I still haven't finished reading all the books I bought that show evidences of plagiarism, mainly because once I got halfway through a couple of them, I was sold and didn't need anymore. However there is still a lot of interesting things left to read, I'll post a few books reviews soon and some of the key evidences they have against the BOM.

Thanks everyone for the help with my letter. Even though it may mean nothing to the bishop, it means a lot to me for my peace of mind.

True, but I don't think he needs to lose any of it, MAYBE change the order, but it's not like the Bishop is receiving tons of personal letters that he has to wade through. I'm sure he'll read the whole thing and get the gist of it all. It's not THAT long.

I would also mention the 13th article of faith. Otherwise, I thought it was great

I think it is a great letter. I liked the sincere tone and the logical display of facts. Even if the message falls on deaf ears now, it could serve as heavy item on the shelf for the bishop. The letter allowed you to formalize your thoughts. I often find that by putting my thoughts to paper, I take a big load off my mind.

Awesome letter! You rock!

Great letter! I noticed in another post you lived in West Point at one time. I grew up there and live in Syracuse with my own family now.

Thanks! Yeah I just moved from there a year and a half ago, but just to North Ogden so I'm not far.

Great letter.

Mine would have been little more than a photo copy of an extended middle finger and a signature.

That would be epic.