Recovery Board
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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-adjusts-mission-organization-implement-mission-leadership-council
Sharing this information about the creation of a new leadership position for sister missionaries called Sister Training Leaders. I believe it is of interest to some that post and read here and I have not seen this posted as of this time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 10:19AM by gentlestrength.
Sharing this information about the creation of a new leadership position for sister missionaries called Sister Training Leaders. I believe it is of interest to some that post and read here and I have not seen this posted as of this time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 10:19AM by gentlestrength.
Choco-rations going up!
If the leaders wanted the sisters to be equal, they would hold the same positions. It seems to me like the sisters will lead other sisters and the elders will lead the sisters.
What I do find refreshing is makign the MP's wife part of the council. I always wondered why she didn't actively participate in the whole program.
What I do find refreshing is makign the MP's wife part of the council. I always wondered why she didn't actively participate in the whole program.
Definitely seems political, appeasing. The truth can be found in preserving the male hierarchal roles. The least senior, least able male will still have the Mormon mystical priesthood and it will still be necessary for most senior, most able female to recognize that authority, this is now becoming the keystone to modern Mormonism as we watch them deflect from the true Joseph Smith story.
I still have great trust in young Mormon women and that this will give them the chance to learn about the most horrible elements of the Mormon religion without being in an eternal marriage. This could really be a game changer.
I still have great trust in young Mormon women and that this will give them the chance to learn about the most horrible elements of the Mormon religion without being in an eternal marriage. This could really be a game changer.
It's important that the doctrine of the LDS Church be understood, it's part of the testimony.
A little info:
The keys to the authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is given to men, (a line of authority) and explained partially here:
Doctrine and Covenants 107.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/107?lang=eng
Briefly:
These are male priesthoods. Nowhere does it give women any authority to officiate. (Except to conduct in Relief Society, often Primary, some Sunday School, Young Women, and now in the mission field in training other women.)
They do not officiate in ordinances, blessings, etc, except in one place in the temple in the Washing and Anointing for women. Note: Men and women are separate in the temple.
This is about the patriarchal order in the LDS Church, men officiate. Women serve as equal partners and serve in leadership etc. under the priesthood authority.
More info on the doctrine here:
http://www.lds.org/topics/church-organization/the-church-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng
DISCLAIMER: This is for information only. Not a defense of the faith.
My opinion: Women will continually be given some more responsibility in the LDS Church as change in policy only. Not Doctrine.
It's also my opinion that women who do not have a testimony of this doctrine, and are making a plea for a change, could be putting their membership in danger of church discipline.
Either they don't understand the doctrine, or they have an agenda, or they do not have a testimony of the church claims.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 01:20PM by SusieQ#1.
A little info:
The keys to the authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is given to men, (a line of authority) and explained partially here:
Doctrine and Covenants 107.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/107?lang=eng
Briefly:
These are male priesthoods. Nowhere does it give women any authority to officiate. (Except to conduct in Relief Society, often Primary, some Sunday School, Young Women, and now in the mission field in training other women.)
They do not officiate in ordinances, blessings, etc, except in one place in the temple in the Washing and Anointing for women. Note: Men and women are separate in the temple.
This is about the patriarchal order in the LDS Church, men officiate. Women serve as equal partners and serve in leadership etc. under the priesthood authority.
More info on the doctrine here:
http://www.lds.org/topics/church-organization/the-church-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng
DISCLAIMER: This is for information only. Not a defense of the faith.
My opinion: Women will continually be given some more responsibility in the LDS Church as change in policy only. Not Doctrine.
It's also my opinion that women who do not have a testimony of this doctrine, and are making a plea for a change, could be putting their membership in danger of church discipline.
Either they don't understand the doctrine, or they have an agenda, or they do not have a testimony of the church claims.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 01:20PM by SusieQ#1.
Pretty much everyone here is aware of this information. Mormonism is a patriarchal, sexist religion. I get it.
I don't understand why you make this claim about Mormon women who want the priesthood:
"Either they don't understand the doctrine, or they have an agenda, or they do not have a testimony of the church claims."
I think it's pretty clear that they do understand the doctrine and have a testimony of the church claims - it's just a different understanding than you had. Why is that threatening to you?
I don't understand why you make this claim about Mormon women who want the priesthood:
"Either they don't understand the doctrine, or they have an agenda, or they do not have a testimony of the church claims."
I think it's pretty clear that they do understand the doctrine and have a testimony of the church claims - it's just a different understanding than you had. Why is that threatening to you?
I am not being asked the question, but share the confusion with this reasoning.
Religions are belief systems.
If I share those beliefs, I join the belief system--or as in the case of a Mormon child, stay in the system.
If I don't share those beliefs, if small and bureaucratic I advocate for change.
If major, perhaps bigoted or mysogynistic, I separate myself from that organization as I do not want to be feeding such an organization with my time and resources, nor do I want to associate with those who have those beliefs.
If the Mormon church is a social organization, I guess staying and advocating for equality would make some sense, I just don't see it as just a social organization. I see it as doctrinal. Thus changing from within thinking seems kind of odd. It would make more sense to get a revelation to take the beliefs with which you agress and start a new Church that gives women the Mormon priesthood. That makes more sense to me than trying to change Mormon doctrine.
Seems appropriate to refer to this as "kicking against the pricks" sado-masochist Mormons like it when this happens.
Religions are belief systems.
If I share those beliefs, I join the belief system--or as in the case of a Mormon child, stay in the system.
If I don't share those beliefs, if small and bureaucratic I advocate for change.
If major, perhaps bigoted or mysogynistic, I separate myself from that organization as I do not want to be feeding such an organization with my time and resources, nor do I want to associate with those who have those beliefs.
If the Mormon church is a social organization, I guess staying and advocating for equality would make some sense, I just don't see it as just a social organization. I see it as doctrinal. Thus changing from within thinking seems kind of odd. It would make more sense to get a revelation to take the beliefs with which you agress and start a new Church that gives women the Mormon priesthood. That makes more sense to me than trying to change Mormon doctrine.
Seems appropriate to refer to this as "kicking against the pricks" sado-masochist Mormons like it when this happens.
Naomi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty much everyone here is aware of this
> information. Mormonism is a patriarchal, sexist
> religion. I get it.
>
> I don't understand why you make this claim about
> Mormon women who want the priesthood:
>
> "Either they don't understand the doctrine, or
> they have an agenda, or they do not have a
> testimony of the church claims."
>
> I think it's pretty clear that they do understand
> the doctrine and have a testimony of the church
> claims - it's just a different understanding than
> you had. Why is that threatening to you?
I am presenting info that I think members and others might need to understand more fully.
Secondly: I stated my opinion about why this is happening.
another poster kolobian: added this:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,851907,858653#msg-858653
LDS women can only request to have the priesthood
> if they feel that the current doctrine is wrong.
> That means either:
>
> 1. They don't have faith that the leadership
> speaks for Elohim
> 2. They don't have faith that Elohim is making the
> right decisions
>
> So they're either speaking ill of the lord's
> anointed by asserting they are not inspired, or
> she's disagreeing with god.
>
> Neither of those make her a faithful LDS woman..
Lastly, why don't these women understand how the LDS Church doctrine functions?
It is my conclusion, that if they did, they would not be making a plea for the priesthood, as they would understand their position.
My guess? Apparently not. I still think there is an underlying agenda here.
Doesn't make sense other wise.
Temple Recommend holding LDS women would have no need to make a plea to be ordained in the priesthoods.
If women want to be ordained to a priesthood, they need to join another church. That would be the wise thing to do.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty much everyone here is aware of this
> information. Mormonism is a patriarchal, sexist
> religion. I get it.
>
> I don't understand why you make this claim about
> Mormon women who want the priesthood:
>
> "Either they don't understand the doctrine, or
> they have an agenda, or they do not have a
> testimony of the church claims."
>
> I think it's pretty clear that they do understand
> the doctrine and have a testimony of the church
> claims - it's just a different understanding than
> you had. Why is that threatening to you?
I am presenting info that I think members and others might need to understand more fully.
Secondly: I stated my opinion about why this is happening.
another poster kolobian: added this:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,851907,858653#msg-858653
LDS women can only request to have the priesthood
> if they feel that the current doctrine is wrong.
> That means either:
>
> 1. They don't have faith that the leadership
> speaks for Elohim
> 2. They don't have faith that Elohim is making the
> right decisions
>
> So they're either speaking ill of the lord's
> anointed by asserting they are not inspired, or
> she's disagreeing with god.
>
> Neither of those make her a faithful LDS woman..
Lastly, why don't these women understand how the LDS Church doctrine functions?
It is my conclusion, that if they did, they would not be making a plea for the priesthood, as they would understand their position.
My guess? Apparently not. I still think there is an underlying agenda here.
Doesn't make sense other wise.
Temple Recommend holding LDS women would have no need to make a plea to be ordained in the priesthoods.
If women want to be ordained to a priesthood, they need to join another church. That would be the wise thing to do.
Would you have told him that he either doesn't understand his religion, doesn't have a testimony, or has an agenda to destroy the Mormon church, if he questions why he isn't authorized to hold the Mormon priesthood?
Apples & Oranges. The priesthood was always for males, and the so-called priesthood "ban" was the result of a curse. Since all males could once hold the priesthood it was no stretch to restore that order in 1978.
Can you point to a time when women were ordained to the priesthood, only to have it taken away?
Can you point to a time when women were ordained to the priesthood, only to have it taken away?
Remember that?
Oops.
Oops.
We had all sister districts in Germany 35 years ago. Hah! I guess we were just well ahead of our time.
We have always been at war with eurasia
We had a position just like this on my mission in Mesa 20 years ago - because there were lots of sister missionaries at the Mesa temple visitors' center.
We called the APs Apes, and this position she-Apes.
We called the APs Apes, and this position she-Apes.