I believe our "anointed one" Tom Phillips has much more real power than a sitting apostle, Jeff Holland. Why?

1. Tom speaks the simple basic truth while Jeff has to deliver elaborate public speeches, make up stories, appeal to authority of those above him and to ancient scriptural entities of dubious validity, explain himself in interviews with media and write books claiming to be a special witness of Jesus Christ.

Tom is relaxed while Jeff becomes aggitated in public, emotional and resorts to drama as a smoke screen for his weak stand on reality.

2. Tom does not have as much invested or at stake in this issue while Jeff has his career, character, standing among peers, financially, etc at stake. Thus, Jeff's drama and over reaction.

Tom, more power to you, no, on the other hand you don't need more power because you have plenty with just what you are doing and how you are handling this.

Good on you mate!

Thanks cricket.

Tom

To many of the church leaders, take away from them their church, tithe paid JOBS... lets see where their faith stands.

He has to continuously swat at?

I picture the 15 dudes sitting in their Thursday staff meeting and Tommy M. turns to Jeffy H. and says, "How's that little problem with Tom P. going?" Jeffy H. responds back, "I've swatted gnats with larger testicles Tommy, but this Tom P. guy is eating my lunch. The internets are filling up with second anointing stories faster than your list of widows to visit!"

No gnats in our home. TOM PHILLIPS IS ICONIC HERE !

We love him. One of the VERY FEW to have courage to choose the right and tell the whole truth and nothing but the TRUTH. Its missing in politics, and its complete VOID in the Mormon hierarchy.

Jeff's GC talk gets more and more dramatic every six months. I wonder what he's gonna do when his trick gets old.

Twirl at the podium? Using a cockatoo as a prop?

I have emailed Elder Holland to arrange a debate.

Here is a copy (with his email address deleted for confidentiality).

Tom Phillips
to Jeffrey

Dear Jeff,

Many are expressing an interest in our having a public debate. I shall be in Salt Lake City in October so why don't we arrange something. I would suggest after the 7th but before the 18th.

Obviously someone like you, a former university president, skilled orator, television and book personality, doctorate from Yale in American Studies, an expert on and valiant proponent of the Book of Mormon and an Apostle will easily overcome any points I can possibly make.

Let me know a date that suits you then we can work on a venue. I am copying below a typical comment from someone who would like to see such a debate. http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,861753,861819#msg-861819 gives more information.

Sincerely,
Tom

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Posted by: cricket ( )
Date: April 15, 2013 12:11PM
Tom Phillips vs Jeff Holland - who has the real power? no spoof

I believe our "anointed one" Tom Phillips has much more real power than a sitting apostle, Jeff Holland. Why?

1. Tom speaks the simple basic truth while Jeff has to deliver elaborate public speeches, make up stories, appeal to authority of those above him and to ancient scriptural entities of dubious validity, explain himself in interviews with media and write books claiming to be a special witness of Jesus Christ.

Tom is relaxed while Jeff becomes aggitated in public, emotional and resorts to drama as a smoke screen for his weak stand on reality.

2. Tom does not have as much invested or at stake in this issue while Jeff has his career, character, standing among peers, financially, etc at stake. Thus, Jeff's drama and over reaction.

Tom, more power to you, no, on the other hand you don't need more power because you have plenty with just what you are doing and how you are handling this.

Good on you mate!

Holland knows he's unarmed in a battle of wits.

Tom, you are a man of courage and integrity. This nevermo salutes you, along with those who brought the Catholic pedophile scandal out into the open despite heavy church opposition and coverups.

Holland is a coward and will never accept.

You're probably right. But, still I think an honest open debate would be unprecedented. The other 14 would be on pins and needles ready to VOID his Apostleship contract at the slightest slip-up.

Then again, Elder Holland will remind us that Elder Oaks declared, by his Apostolic witness, there is no public debate when it comes to the "Lord's Church."

"Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately." - Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Criticism,” Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68

This is just the façade of his lawyerly-gobbley-gook used to hide behind. Can you imagine Christ hiding in an open debate? NOPE, I can't either. But his special witnesses do - cowardice - because they KNOW there is no revelation. But they do like the title of prophet, seer and revelator. Better not put that to the test!

Tom's such a great guy. Hope to meet him someday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 02:11PM by jiminycricket.

This shouldn't be too much to ask. The Big 15 are continually urging the members to go out and do missionary work.

They want the members to go find the lost sheep. They send the members to far off places at their own expense and risk to spread the word. Tom Phillips is not even asking Jeffrey Holland to ride a bicycle to this debate.

The average missionary is going out there in Europe knocking on thousands of doors desperate for someone even willing to discuss Moromonism. Yet here, Tom Phillips has invited Jeffrey Holland to engage in a discussion that will reach potentially thousands of inactive, apostate, and many more otherwise disaffected souls, and I anticipate that Mr. Holland will turn down the offer.

What a fine example he would set for the missionaries. I hope all the missionaries will avoid working in like manner, if Holland refuses to play ball.

And only if we do this debate in the temple cafeteria.

October 9th at noon.

And only if we do this debate in the temple cafeteria.

October 9th at noon.


LMAO!!

This is a joke, right? This can't really be Jeffrey Holland.

Can't be him, he would have emailed me.

Good parody though.

Thought so. Too crazy to be true.

Woo the gloves are off. My
hat's off to you Tom!

OH SNAP! This will be epic... But something tells me he, dodo, will wuss out. They would never allow a public debate, as much as I wish they would. The entire house of cards would crumble. Immediately.

I hope I am wrong, and the debate really happens. I think you are a man of integrity, Tom. You give me hope for a better world for my family still under that boot. Thanks

Truly an opportunity to see what "Jeff" really knows about his "one and only true church on the face of the earth".

Or if he is really just as uninformed and ignorant as any local Bishop or Stake President...just simply with more "fruit-salad" on his lapel for following his mind-numbing marching orders for so long!

or so it seems to me...

OMG!!

What a great invitation. What a terrific event should he agree.

Yes, he has all that knowledge and is a special witness of the name of Jesus Christ. Plus he has access to his fellow prophets, seers and revelators, and all those brainy BYU professors. Even respected academics such as Richard Bushman.

He can surely crush little ole me in a debate.

I know that JRH is a true apostle - have you heard the way he pounds those fists? Only a true follower of Jesus could pound fists like that.

I was at a regional conf. with JRH a few years back. It was in the Dee-events center in Ogden, UT. He specifically addressed the youth and shouted as loud as he could: "DON'T YOU LEAVE THIS CHURCH!!!!!" pounding the podium the whole time. I was TBM at the time and was like holy crap chill dude.

Wow, what a meltdown. I wonder what the general membership thinks of these Howard Beale rants. I was shocked even as an ex-Mormon when I saw him in General Conference that time, ranting and raving and waving around a Book of Mormon. He even mentioned the name of Solomon Spalding. What a loose cannon!

I doubt Jeff's handlers would allow him to debate a cool customer like Tom Phillips.

IF JRH is finding it necessary to yell at impressionable youth, who are far more tech savvy with the internet than he could ever hope to be, then he must be in a full panic at the disaffection and bleeding that is petrifying the 15.

Furthermore, I concur that if the hierarchy wants to send out missionaries to do the grunt work, they should set the example without hesitation or fear of the unknown. Facing Tom in a debate should be welcomed as an opportunity to speak for the Lord to a huge audience. The press coverage would be phenomenal.

I can't help but think of a quote from Steve Benson wherein Elder Neal A. Maxwell was thankful for the firewall the apologists create to protect the leadership. Zero confidence in their apostolic calling.

We need betting odds and all those little prop-bets like they do for the super-bowl.

Like how many minutes into it would it be before JRH lied, or at what point would be become unglued.

Unfortunately, I would suspect that JRH doesn't have the stones.

the power of any word, including "Gods word" is in the truth it conveys.

amazingly, and quite contrary to religious claims, truth is independent of EVERYTHING including God and / or Satan as its source,

and "God's word" as spoken by BS artist religious figures and stuff that is written in the buybull is often wrong.


if Satan tells some one something that is true, it is still true.

as they are inspected, Holland's words expose some one who is a LIAR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CiyrZd-kB0

Jeff Holland and all the other man-made apostles and prophets of the all powerful 2nd Anointing, possess the real might and power - the mountains of Money they so jealously preside over! They sit in the offices of their Mormon Empire and they rule and reign, unapproachable and untouchable. Their relentless lust for Money protects their power and dominion.
Tom, and all the rest of us mere minions cannot possibly penetrate in any effective way the authoritarian regime that appears, in many disturbing respects, the North Korea of the Midwest.
Until the vast Mormon Money fraud is investigated, challenged and finally exposed in all of its gory detail by officials in high office, their empirical power and control over their hapless and blindly obedient subjects will tragically continue unabated.

Exactly, Read:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon392.htm

"The Great Mormon Money machine" - Short Topics

The Mormon church is a totalitarian regime, a dictatorship and is impregnable. The Mormon Temple experience is the perfect example of this malady, where strict and unquestioning obedience is demanded of all participants in lifting their arms to the square, and bowing their heads in submissive agreement. It is worrying to think, that Tom Monson, Jeff Holland and company preside over such an abomination of desolation.
Tom, Holland will never give you an audience or answer your questions in any effective way, he has sworn with secret oaths and has far too much to lose, to defer to any open and honest debate.
By the way Tom, David Porch was the missing Temple President during your 2nd Anointing experience that Sunday at Preston. A very kind and caring man you could possibly encounter. The Mormon church and its cohorts in SL did not deserve him.

Thanks flyinghigh. Yes, it was David Porch who was with his wife who was ill in hospital that weekend.

the difference is this:


One man is committed to reason and facts.

The other man is committed to myths and emotion.


.

Mr Phillips,
What if we started an online petition (similar to the petition asking for women to give prayers in GC)? Do you think this would help? Especially if the petition hit the media?

May help but I don't think the media would be interested in a debate on whether or not the BoM is true. Everyone but TBMs already know the answer to that. They could be interested if such a debate was actually agreed to take place.

Maybe bombarding the missionaries and local leaders (bishops and stake presidents). JRH is their stalwart champion, surely he can answer the lowly Tom Phillips. What has Elder Holland got to lose? He has borne his testimony to the world. What he knows about the BoM is 'light years' beyond science according to what he told me. So no problem. Can easily be settled by him quashing me in a debate.

After all, he is the mighty Elder Holland - Book of Mormon defender and advocate.