RFM "Ironman" and all-around dynamo "Rodolfo" has put this one together; I'm just the taxi driver this time although I've studied the history of this horror and even managed a modest bit of writing on the subject myself. Based on my experience, stuff like this might not be what you want to put on your Facebook pages where your Mormon friends might see it; honest, I was the subject of some pretty venomous insults, although nowhere near the number my friend Will is subjected to regularly.

He is speaking that the Salt Lake Public Library, Wednesday, April 17th at 6:30 p.m. Here's the link...

http://www.mormonsandtrek.com

And the location...

http://classic.slcpl.org/locations.jsp?parent_id=8&page_id=20

Those living along the Wasatch Front are invited to attend; Will generally has a number of his books available and is always happy to autograph them... As noted as well, there will be time available afterwards for questions.

Finally, the video will be made available for watching via YouTube as soon as it's convenient.

Waiting for the you tube link & a way to support his video, further research & his book. I know lots of people will appreciate something that directly approaches the ludicrous handcart pioneer propaganda from church.

With gratitude he was willing to go the distance and do the research compiling data on this difficult, tragic topic.

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I will look forward to the vid though :)

This lecture sounds fascinating, but I doubt I'll have time to go. :(

So, my question is this:

I have no doubt that Mr. Bagley is giving an accurate account of what happened. However, what exactly did Brigham Young gain from making the immigrants use handcarts instead of covered wagons? If it was some plan of his to use the immigrants as guinea pigs I can't see what he would have gained.

Could they afford covered wagons? If not, why would be blame BY instead of the mere fact that they were poor?

Orson Pratt made the announcement that the Saints were openly practicing polygamy in Utah Territory. This was a poltical move made in reply to John M. Gunnison's bestseller about the year he spent among the Mormons; before that Mormons on missions, including third LDS President John Taylor, routinely denied the practice.

Ann Eliza Webb Young (Wife No. 19) made the claim that Brigham Young was living a fairly lavish lifestyle (by 19th Century Utah standards at least), and the price of ox teams, wagons, and provisions represented a drain on church coffers.

Will tells me he's done considerably more research, and Young, in attempting to maintain his power as leader of the "Kingdom of the West," sought to draw as many able-bodied saints to Zion as possible.

We hope to see you there...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2013 05:07AM by SL Cabbie.

I guess that the church was in part providing funding for the pioneers to move across the West then. That would make sense.

Either way, I hope to make it. I'd love to get another take on what life was like for them.

Thanks again.

Also bump. :)

I am no expert on this subject, but if I recall correctly, yes the immigrants were very poor but were strongly encouraged to get to SLC ASAP. They expected to be provided with equipment and supplies for the trip but that never happened. At the time, Brigham Young had money and knew about the immigrants, but basically let them suffer and die instead of helping them.

Looking forward to being there. DW and kids are coming too. She's a school teacher and thinks this will be a good lesson for the kids to learn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2013 09:48AM by Bite Me.

I read the title as "Wilfred Brimley" lol. Sounds interesting though since I am a child of one of the handcart companies

I wish I could be there for this. Good luck Will!

I wish I could be there too - the handcart disaster is a fascinating, tragic part of Mormon history and the blatant falsehoods they tell today to make it a faith promoting activity for the kids is just wrong. Let us know when you have the video posted.

When I see write-ups and pictures of those perky teenagers donning prairie clothes to celebrate this tragedy, I get sick. These young kids haven't a clue about how heartlessly Brigham Young's schemed to squeeze even more money from the naive immigrants.

There is a statue of Nellie Pucell Unthank on the campus of SUU in Cedar City. She was one of the Martin Handcart Company. She lost both parents on the way and walked miles in the snow without shoes herself, getting so badly frostbitten that she had to have her legs amputated below the knees without anesthesia.

I suppose there are those who find that a glorious representation of the pioneer spirit. I just find it heartbreaking.

I was happy to be able to attend and it was great to catch up with some new RfM friends as well as meeting new people. Thanks for making this happen!

There was a pretty mad TBM woman there...

Will opened with a disclaimer that he thought that we should embrace our heritage for what it is and that he in no way wanted to take away from the power of those that attempted and succeeded in crossing the west. He did point out frustrations and anger towards the leaders that placed those travelers in harms way for personal interests, money, alcohol, groceries, and a seemingly excessive steam engine.

Bite Me asked an excellent question about what one would expect during Mormon Trek and how to handle that; Will felt that the experience of traveling that land had value and merit but that trek is used as a Mormon propaganda tool and likened it to Hitler's Youth. Cue: angry TBM woman.

A group of us went out afterwards, including Hayduke, my parents, Will and his wife, rodolfo, and a group from the Postmo crowd...

BTW, I put attendance at the lecture at right around 150 people, although I didn't count closely...

Will asked for some feedback, and an interesting "dynamic" arose from my old "dysfunctional family" (the "fruits" of Mormonism are indeed multi-generational). I told Will I wanted to "see the horror," and sometimes I thought that was "missing."

My old man, the retired rocket scientist, jumped in and said he thought it was clearly there; the obvious contrast was between the two of us in that Pop "lives in his head" whereas my liberal arts background and a whole lot of therapy have put me more "in touch with my gut." That contrast is visible in what we "enjoy" in subjective fare these days, and after giving it a few days thought, I realized how I thought the subject should be treated... I'll pass that on to Will first (it's really a small nitpicking point), and if you want to e-mail me, I'll shall what I think since it does have applications to RFM's "larger message."

Brigham Young was indeed essentially a mafiosi crime boss and a tyrant, and our friend did a magnificent job of showing how even his inner circle, who were privy to the excesses he tried to cover up, were absolutely terrified of "The Old Boss."

Okay, after a night behind the wheel, I'm rambling...

I thought Will did a good job. I enjoyed the whole thing and learned some new things. Old Brigham was a douchebag of the highest order.