This is a response to those new mormon ads with my spin on it. This is my story:

I am a battered wife of a piestholding husband that refuses to get help and lives in denial. My church refuses to help me and to hold my husband accountable, and I am a Mormon.

I hope that somehow, you will get the support you need and that your husband will get the help and attention he needs.

He will never get the help he needs until he admits to what he has done.
I have left the household and am staying in a safe place now. I am still unsure if I want to end the marriage or not.

moonflowerz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He will never get the help he needs until he
> admits to what he has done.
> I have left the household and am staying in a safe
> place now. I am still unsure if I want to end the
> marriage or not.

They never do. Of course, they have 1,000s of reasons why it's never their fault.

Glad you are in a place of safety.

I once went out with a woman who had nearly been killed by her ex-husband. The authorities had told her: "Either you leave your husband, or we put your children in care."

So she left him. It was obvious that she still had deep feelings for him, even years later. That was not the reason why we finished. She was seeing a woman as well as me and she decided to break off our relationship as she didn't want to two-time me. Which I respected her for. My God. That was 20 years ago!

Argh, no! It was nearer 30 years ago!!! >:O

Oh. hell. I just realised. I am old... ;o))



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2010 06:07PM by matt.

When I think about leaving my husband I often get stuck on Mormon beleifs. I want to try all I can to 'save' this marriage becasue marriage is sacred and we were married in the temple. However, I am a step away from leaving the mormon church. I also get stuck on my husbands words that I am blowing this out of proportion, and becasue of my childhood abuse I am calling this abuse when it is not. It feels like abuse to me. No he had not kicked me, or punched me, but he has done other things that have made me doubt him.

I want to tell this community what he has done to me. Why? I dont know you, and you dont know me. But I do know that I need help and support.

First Incident: Early in our marriage 4 years ago, I used to have a problem saying excuse me, and I would just slide through or by and sometimes that would led to a bump to my husband. He asked me to say excuse me, but I didnt always. Weeks later, I wanted to get by his chair and I just went behind his chair and pushed it to make room with my knee while he was in it. He got angery at this, and bumped me back. I was holding my 5 year old daughter at the time, and we both fell over, went over a bicycle and got hurt. I was crying and my daughter was crying. My husband did say sorry and helped us up. I think he was shocked at his behavior. But the damage was done. Since then i NEVER bumped him again. Lesson learned!

Second Incident: A few months agter the first incident, I was stroking and playfuly pulling on the hair of his beard. He did ask me to stop and that it hurt, but I did not listen. I was tugging on his beard some more, and he got angery and frusterated, reached up, took a chunk of my hair and pulled it with such force my head got yanked down and the pain made me cry. Again lesson learned. I NEVER pulled on his beard hair again.

Third Inceident: The third incident was an ongoing incident over the good part of two years. My husband has a short tolerance for my daughter tantrums. (He is not the father.) My husband and my daughters anger would feel off of each other, making things essculate. He would give her a command, she would refuse, she will be order to go into timeout or to her room, she would refuse and scream, my husband would start to yell. I would try to interfere. i would be scolding for interfering. My daughter would be hauld off to her room by my husband, sometimes dangling by an arm, sometimes her legs. She would thrash and scream. Once time she kicked him in the groan when she was thrashing and he dropped her. I will never forget the sickening sound of that thud. Even when I asked him time and time again to not force her to go, but to let her go on her own, even until all her privilgese are taken away. Becasue once he would restain her, she would fight back and it would grow so volitial that I would shake and tremble at trying to get him to stop. He has thrown her on her bed. He would hold her wrists behind her back till she was screaming in pain. He says that she was lying about the pain. But I will never forget her words. "IT HURTS, STOP, MOMMY IT HURTS!" The more she would fight back, the more he would be determined to make her yeald. And I would begg for him to just give her time alone to cool down. And he would growl at me to stop interfering with trying to parent her.
I finally convinced him to stop touching her or having any physical contact when she was in a tantrum like that, and what do ya know. The hitting stopped. I was able to breath easy for awhile. Things were looking better.

Final Straw: A year later, my daughter was playing on our porch with her sticks. She loves her sticks. LOVES. She was poking the stick at our porch ceiling forefulling make thud thud sounds. Out of nowhere and unexpected, my husband rushed out of the house and wordlessly ripped the stick out of my daughters hand, cutting up her hand. Then he broke her stick in three pieces then looked around for her other sticks and broke them all as well. With tears in her eyes, I looked at her and said, "Baby whats wrong" (Didnt know she was cut yet) She said to me, "Mommy I am scared of *****." And I said, I know baby me to, sometimes he can be really scary when he is mad. I was trying to confort her. My husband blew up at this and said. "Don't tell her that!"
It was this day that EVERYTHING came rushing back over the last 3 and a half years. His anger, his yelling, his questionable violent behavior. I packed a back and told my daughter to pack one to. I will never forget as she was packing, he was yelling at me not to leave, and my daughter said to him. "This is all your fault!"

So can you help me. No I have no been kicked or punched. I do not have a fractured skull. Am I abused? OR Am I blowing this all out of proportion? Be honest.

______________________________________________________________
Sorry for the long winded response. I think part of me was also writing this for myself.

You are not blowing anything out of proportion.
I'm glad you are out of there. Your daughter was correct. It is ALL HIS FAULT.

Speaking as a former Bishop, Stake president and criminal defense attorney, GO TO THE POLICE. he needs to be in jail.

When I was a Bishop, I couldn't get the Church to do anything about a woman being abused. I couldn't get her to do anything. I went to the police anyway.

There is NO excuse for abuse and NO excuse for not prosecuting people like him. None.

But then I see you're already in a safe place...

If you're in Salt Lake, I hope it's one where you can get help and support (including tough old gals who will tell you what you don't want to hear); the local YWCA is a good place to begin...

Speaking from experience (and I don't know where all of the shelters are), the security at these places is excellent...

What you need to do now is not send those "little feelers" your estranged husbands way... And give yourself some time to develops some perspective; you don't owe him anything but a lot of heartache...

Good luck...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2010 06:11PM by SL Cabbie.

that is a good sign that the marriage is dead and gone. I hope you are able to see it. You may still harbor the fantasy that your husband will "get help" and return to the man he appeared to be during your courtship. The odds of this happening are very small, mainly because the actual personality of your husband is the one he showed you after you had committed yourself to him. The courtship period was him sweeping you off your feet and getting you tied to him in some way. Remember this: part of the definition of personality is 'enduring characteristics." I strongly suspect his drive to overpower you to be in control and to use all nastiness to get there will be an enduring characteristic.

I urge you to get very realistic about the probability of his changing and also about how long it would take you to stop flinching in his presence, should you ever be so manipulated as to return to his presence.

Best of luck! ;)

A no. of years ago at an Exmormon Conference in SLC, there was a woman who spoke about the book she wrote about her experiences as a battered wife of a Mormon priesthood holder (she had kids). I forget her name and the title of her book. You might want to contact conference chairperson Sue Emmett, who is also Vice President of the Exmormon Foundation (ref. http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/board.html). Sue might remember the lady's name and/or book title (or have related, archived info. that would be useful to you).

You can contact Sue via the Foundation's Contact page.
"The Battered Woman Syndrome, Third Edition" (ref. http://www.amazon.com/Battered-Woman-Syndrome-Third-FOCUS/dp/0826102522/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b)

"Battered Woman" (ref. http://www.amazon.com/Battered-Woman-Lenore-E-Walker/dp/0060907428)

"The Psychological Effects of Mormonism - How Mormonism Affects People's Self-Esteem" (ref. http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/).

The psychotherapist who pioneered the study of self-esteem is Dr. Nathaniel Branden (ref. http://www.nathanielbranden.com/catalog/splash.php), who has written several excellent books on the subject, including "A Woman's Self-Esteem: Struggles and Triumphs in the Search for Identity" (ref. http://www.nathanielbranden.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_23).

A video-tapeded interview with Carolyn Jessop, who was systematically abused in the Mormonism-rooted FLDS cult, and liberated herself is online at http://fora.tv/2007/12/05/Carolyn_Jessop_on_her_Escape_from_the_FLDS

Carolyn's book, "Escape", discusses her traumatic experience in the patriarchal FLDS cult and liberation from it (ref. http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Carolyn-Jessop/dp/0767927567).

If you want to touch base with former Mormons in your area, info. about groups is online at http://www.exmormon.org/helpers.htm and http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/search/ under Our Community > Post-Mormon Chapters.

Things change for the better after we decide to take action to improve our lives, and do so. You can stay in your marriage - or leave. You can report your husband to the police - or not. You can contact a woman's organization that helps battered women and request assistance - or continue to tolerate the status quo. You can choose to act in ways that will improve the quality of your life - or you can remain a victim.

You're the captain of the ship of your life; it'll go in whichever direction you set.

Best wishes!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2010 08:11PM by Susan I/S.

You need more information--to know exactly what you are dealing with, and exactly how perilous your situation is!

I was also a battered Mormon wife. He was (is) a close relative of an important GA. The GA and his family never mentioned that my ex-husband had been arrested several times for assault, that he'd murdered neighbors' pets, or that he had beaten his sister so badly that she had to be removed from their home. This sociopath showed no signs of temper in the year that we dated. I was just a woman, and not worth protecting. The Bishop or the Mormon church will not help you. You are in terrible danger!

I got a civil divorce on the grounds of "extreme physical cruelty", in court with several witnesses, and medical reports.

Still, the Mormons supported him and blamed me. They gave me a lot of bad advice! My story is very long, but I know that if I had stayed with him, he would have injured me even more, and perhaps killed me. If we'd had children, he would have beaten them, too. He strangled me several times, until I stopped breathing. I still have physical problems from the beatings. My ex has been married three times--in the temple--and has been in jail. He is restrained from seeing his children. Yet, he continues to be a "member in good standing" in the Mormon church, and puts up his phony front.

1. Don't get near your husband, without police or other protection!

2. Get an official, registered police restraining order. You might need it.

3. Once you leave, or threaten to leave, his violence will escalate!

4. Get the help of family members. Move home, if possible. Make a plan to protect yourself.

5. You have probably already learned that there is nothing you can do to prevent an attack or to stop an attack once he starts on you. Nothing you can do.

5. The only way you can stay unharmed is to stay away from this monster.

STUDY, STUDY, STUDY! Read whatever you can about spousal abuse! Be informed that these men do not change! They do not change. They do not change. (The 1% or so that stop battering, still keep the same nasty attitude in their heart.

You are right. Wife-beaters don't admit they've done anything wrong! They don't want to change! Oh yeah, he will cry, and apologize, and say he loves you, and that he will change, but they do that only to keep you coming back for more. Abuse is their way of life.

My ex used to quote D&C 132 at me all the time--the part about Emma Smith is threatened with destruction if she doesn't obey her husband and join in with polygamy. Read it. It reflects the attitude of Mormon wife-beaters toward women. This is their scripture.

My ex said that we were sealed in the temple for eternity, and that made me his "property," and he had the right to do whatever he wanted to do to me. This basic attitude can not be flushed out of a man, can not be "cured." My ex-husband's father used to beat him until he bled, with a leather strap with holes in it, to cause welts. Read about "the cycle of abuse."

Once you are informed of the truth about spousal abuse--that it can't be cured--you will probably get a divorce. I pray that you do so, before you get injured further or before you bring a child into the situation, to be battered also.

I escaped with my life, moved back home (800 miles away) for a few months, then moved away to hide in a big city. With the internet, it is getting harder to be anonymous, but you do need a plan to protect yourself! I am still completely anonymous on RFM, for example.

I am so sorry you're in this mess! I know that feeling that it is the end of the world! When my ex was beating me, I often felt that I wanted to die, to just have him kill me and end it. I even contemplated suicide once. But--you can get out! Nothing is worth sacrificing your life!

In the city, I hooked up with an old boyfriend--someone I had known for years, and I knew his family, too. I trusted them. We got married, had children, and enjoyed a nice life by the ocean.

I would recommend that you get therapy, with a non-Mormon therapist, as soon as possible. A Mormon therapist might take the man's side, and try to persuade you to "save your marriage." I'm begging you to "save your own life." My horrible experience left me with PTSD. I still have nightmares and flashbacks, but not as often.

No matter what the Mormon leaders tell you--you are not responsible for your husband's behavior. It is not your fault!

(((hugs))) Please protect yourself! >^..^<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2010 06:55PM by forestpal.

It sounds like it is just not working for you and your daughter. You are not happy, she is not happy, chances are he is not happy either. There is no shame in divorce. Sounds like it is time to make the split and get on with your life.

As a priesthood holder you are taught that you will receive inspiration/revelation for your family. There is something that happens with that surety that is not healthy. The cognitive dissonance between how you are taught it should be (imagined it should be) and how it is, and it causes you to misinterpret and to force it all, trying to get what is really there, to fit in the nice package the mormon teachings have you expect.

When I had my epiphany moment, and suddenly knew the one true church was a man made creation, and after I started healing from the severe turmoil that cause, well ... I discovered I am much kinder, more patient, I now know that I am not inherently right, just because I have a thought and feel good about it, all blessed by some magical force.

I have found I don't yell at the kids out of hand, and don't try to set-up situations and control their behavior. I listen. I talk. I explain. I trust. I listen some more, and I expect as much rational discourse back to me as is age appropriate for each child. I then let them live by their choices.

I thought my relationship with my DW was a partnership before, but I was deluded. It now is closer to that ideal, and I have no rational explanation for the difference except for that I choose it to be that way (I guess we both do), and my base assumption is that I need to prove my individual thoughts and assumptions directed toward the team, instead of waiting for DW to disprove them. There is a lot in that last statement.

Now while I am not a mental health professional, I do have some experience dealing with the psyche (military training and magician training). It is my opintion, using myself, and my transformation as a backdrop, that mormonism causes mental instability. And it is all caused by the "mormon" environment.

Now I don't know how close my projections fit in this case, but I am afraid your DH will never be able to make all the pieces fit in his ideal picture because he has been given a completely inaccurate world view. His axioms and assumptions will never provide the basis for his equations to balance. Until something happens to change his base world view he will never understand that what he was doing was wrong. I thought I was doing an amazing job as a husband and father, but now I know I was completely blind to the simple things that make all things great. I was doing a great job, for an complete ass hat.

Good luck to you. The peace will come if you trust in yourself and your abilities. All the great things you have done in your life were not because of the lord's magic feather (Dumbo reference), but were created by the greatness that was always in you.

I want to thank everyone for their amazing responses and pouring of love.

Does anyone think a marriage like this can be saved?

Maybe when you were just dating he was fun and nice. Well, the full grown version is cruel and disrespectful.

Your so-called "husband" is a mentally ill abuser. He is not going to change. Those acts of his which you describe are not normal. It is not normal for a woman to be afraid of her husband. It is not normal for a man to abuse his wife even verbally, let alone with violence as he has done. Please get some counseling that will help you understand this. Your daughter also needs to see you stand up for yourself and leave this relationship behind, otherwise she will think this is an acceptable way to live.


If you want to belong to some church find a nice religion, maybe Methodists or something else, Stay away from churches that make you want to apologise for even being alive and being a human being,

I wish you well. I have never been in your situation but I am told that abused women find it very, very hard to walk away. That is part of the harm that has been done to you. Good luck. There are a lot of good people on this board with more direct experience than I have that can help with information and encouragement. There is some excellent advice already posted above.

Let me translate abuser to English for you, you think you are giving him another chance -- he thinks "she has come to her senses and realizes how good she has it with me and how wrong she is for making trouble for me, she causes all this and she knows it”.

He is completely unable to see himself from any other perspective, he may initially be sorry that he hurt and may try to get you back and apologize all over the place; but he will soon turn it around in his mind -- days, weeks or months later, but at some point he will say, “I’m sorry I hurt you but you know it really was your fault”.

How do I know, 20 years of giving him the benefit of the doubt, 20 years of thinking surely this time he will “get it”, surely this time he will see that it’s him not me…… No it’s never going to happen…….EVER

When I finally left I was so sick of his crap I didn’t care if he turned it around over night and became Prince Charming, he had burnt me out, no more chances, no more benefit of the doubt no more hope.

After a few months away from him I realized his abuse was much worse than I would have admited to while with him, I minimized how bad he was, made excuses for him and took responsibility for his behavior. That’s what happens when you stay in an abusive relationship.

The only thing I know in hind site is I should have left sooner, there are great guy out there who will be happy to have a woman like you and treat you like a queen and you need to know that you can find a decent guy, you don’t need this mess to fix, hell he doesn’t want to be fixed, he wants you to shut up and put up with his abuse.

My ex actually said to our adult children when they visited him 5 years after the divorce, “I don’t know what happened, we had a good marriage and everything was great, I don’t know why she left me?” WTF………..is all I can say. He actually re wrote history in his mind to make himself the victim. I guess he forgot about the police showing up at the door.

Save yourself and your daughter. A marriage is not a person.

No.

Your daughter sounds like a handful. You are too permissive and he is too strict.

This will not get better as your daughter gets older and becomes more defiant, unless you both get some counseling on how to parent.

Also,your husband is not neceassarily abusive from the situations you describe.

You keep pulling his hair when he asks you to stop. You keep bumping into him when he asks you to stop.

WTF are you doing???? Are you testing him or are you setting him up?

Why did your previous relationship with the father of your daughter fail?

Just pointing out that there are some other things to consider.
You brought a lot of baggage into this marriage and step parenting is a thankless job for your husband.

Give marriage counseling a chance.

Leah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your daughter sounds like a handful. You are too
> permissive and he is too strict.
>
> This will not get better as your daughter gets
> older and becomes more defiant, unless you both
> get some counseling on how to parent.
>
> Also,your husband is not neceassarily abusive
> from the situations you describe.
>
> You keep pulling his hair when he asks you to
> stop. You keep bumping into him when he asks you
> to stop.
>
> WTF are you doing???? Are you testing him or are
> you setting him up?
>
> Why did your previous relationship with the
> father of your daughter fail?
>
> Just pointing out that there are some other
> things to consider.
> You brought a lot of baggage into this marriage
> and step parenting is a thankless job for your
> husband.
>
> Give marriage counseling a chance.

So, let's see if we understand this. You deliberately bump into your husband. And you deliberately cause him pain by pulling his hair. When he asked you not to.

How many children does your husband have? Seems like he has two, both of whom behave like brats.

I agree with Leah.

You need to find out why YOU behave in the way you do. Learn what problems YOU bring with you to any relationship you have.

If your daughter sees YOU deliberately bumping into your husband, sees YOU hurting him on purpose, how do you think YOU are teaching your daughter to react to him, to treat him?

It seems to me you are storing up a whole lot of trouble for yourself in the way you let your daughter see how YOU treat other adults in your life.

Question: If YOU refuse to grow up, why on earth would your daughter even start to grow up?

Also, would your husband recognise himself from your description of him, here? Would other people who know you both recognise him from your description of him? Or your description of yourself?

It's clear that you all need some kind of guidance. You all seem to bring something negative to this relationship.

You need to find out why and what.

>
> Question: If YOU refuse to grow up, why on earth
> would your daughter even start to grow up?
>


After my husband stopped treating her the way he has, my daughter STOPPED ALL her tantrums. Note: She acts like this with NO ONE else. NO ONE! Not me, not her father not her sitters, not at school. HMMMM?

I agree with the last two posters. The husband is not necessarily being abusive, though he has trouble controling his temper. Posters suggesting he is mentally ill or should be in jail are jumping to conclusions too rapidly.

most importantly the OP should not take any notice of any of the strongly opinionated advice offered here, other than general empathy, since we are only responding to her own anonymous simplified take on a complex situation. Those with history of abusive relationships are projecting their own experiences onto the OP perhaps too confidently

Oh, I definitely think the husband is abusive, but that does not excuse disrespecting his wishes to not be bumped into or have his hair pulled. That doesn't mean the wife deserves to be afraid and the daughter has nothing to do with this, so she certainly doesn't deserve to be pinned down until she submits.

I see a lot of the classic hallmarks of an abuser in the posts above.

I see a lot of lack of respect for other people's boundaries, all the way around.

I see piss-poor communication skills all the way around.

I think the wife should leave with her daughter, get divorced, and get some really good counseling for A) Boundaries, B) self-esteem, and C) abuse recovery. From, obviously, a nonmormon therapist.

He hasn't hurt you 'yet'? Why are you waiting for him to fracture your skull or thoroughly maim your child?

Do you want to live?

Do you want your child to grow up to adulthood?

Seems to me the answer is obvious. Others have outlined steps and good advice here.

If you were a child who was abused, I feel that you should know better than to keep your daughter in a situation like that. I was also abused as a child and your story made me shake with rage just thinking of how my life used to be. Why should you continue to be with this man when there is probably someone out there who can make you happy and cherish you? You have to leave and STAY away to protect your life and the life of your daughter. Emotional abuse can be just as lasting and detrimental as physical abuse. It's obvious that you have lasting effects from your childhood - you're insecure, timid, unsure and you make excuses for this tyrant. You cannot force yourself to be around toxic people who think you are a piece of crap, just because you think it might be considered an eternal marriage. Is this man really someone you would want to spend eternity with?

I agree that I treated him poorly as well, but I forgot to mention that I was in a serious depression from my bipolar disorder, and was also during this time tried to commit suicide and was hospitalized. So I wasn't in my right mind. I didn't care if I bumped him, because I didn't care about anything. I couldn't care about anything because my minds wiring was off. Does it make it ok that I bumped him, NO. Was I being childish, yes. As fare as the hair pulling, it really seemed playful to me, and I didn't see how it was hurting. I wasn't pulling hard at all, but I think it was like when you get one hair, how that one hair hurts if you don't have a clump of hair. I think when I tugged on a clump of hair sometimes I would also get a longer stay hair that hurt him. I just didn't understand that it hurt. I can see now that we were both wrong. But it still boils down to that I got hurt WAY MORE than I hurt him.

i like how you have admitted to us about the transgressions against him..... however.... the fact that he has dragged your daughter screaming by the arms and legs.... that right there is abuse...IMHO... he could pull her arm or leg out of the socket....
i hope you have meds for your bi-polar problem...only you can figure out if your situation is worth staying in.... especially consider your daughter here..... from the incidents you relate here.... maybe this is NOT salvageable....only you can decide...good luck!!

Do yourself and him a favor and get out of the marriage!

His actions do not rise to the level abuse but for whatever reason, you and your daughter are pushing this man's patience to the limits.

He was nice enough to marry you with a 1 year old child in tow, most guys would not even think of doing that.
So what exactly are you contributing to the marriage?
Do you have a job?

No marriage can function well when one partner works through severe emotional problems from the past.
Get counseling and if that does not work, get out.

Your husband will be much better off with a loving wife who does not create situations that make him out to be the villain in a melodrama.

You are not "both wrong".

You have a severe mental disorder and your daughter should be looked at as well.
Some of us caught on to that just from what you wrote.

Your husband apparently does not fully understand what exactly he loaded on himself.
Or he was aware and he had rescue fantasies, poor shmuck.

If I was him, I'd be packing my bags right about now.

GET MORE THERAPY!!

Do't ya 'just LOVE' the way tscc stands up for the 'faithful' in a dispute or divorce? With them, it's as simple as Who's paying tithing, etc...

Mormonism is ALL ABOUT the Outward Appearances! period, End of Report.