I am in need of some advice about one of the 70 who's coming to my house on Friday, apparently one of the top 70's, not state level. He's coming with the bishop, and who knows who else, because they're having a stake thing going on and they're going to visit my husband this is a likely activation effort since DH has started going to church and dragging me and little one with him. Since his mother passed away he seems very into this stuff now. I made the decision to sit with him in Sacrament and Sunday school because I want my marriage to work and because it feels like the right thing to do to meet him where he's at I know many disagree but that's just how I feel. There's absolutely no way I can believe in this stuff anymore when I listen to it it's like I'm the only one with the lights on but everyone else is sitting in the dark. Now that the 70 is coming over to my house I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. My father-in-law is coming also because to them this is like a visit from God, somewhat. I want to be polite but I don't know if I should be in the room with all of them if I have anything to do with this I should just excuse myself and go upstairs or if my husband will be upset about that. If I sit among them I don't want them to ask me any questions because I don't want to be the negative source or the Satan in the room. I am unsure if the bishop and his wife know that I'm an ex Mormon. If they do it would be because my husband told him. This is a new ward for him so it isn't the same bishop I had before. I have tried to think of some things I might say if I am asked directly why am no longer a member that everything I think of to say sounds a little bit harsh. I don't want to alienate them because eventually I would like to bring my husband out of this. I see no hope so far; he is very stubborn and very blind. I am asking for your suggestions on how I should conduct myself that would make the greatest impact. Thank you very much. All advice is appreciated. This was done through iPhone audio so forgive punctuation. I'm supposed to be working so had to make it quick.

My opinion: if your DH is already going back to church and has "gotten into it" then the 70 is visiting YOU as a conversion/reactivation attempt.

As for how you should behave, I'd be torn myself. On one hand, women are to be seen and not heard (by mormons). I would use the excuse that my pitiful little woman brain will be overwhelmed by so much manly godliness and therefore I would be retiring to another room or making myself scarce in some way. The purpose of the visit could be to rebuke you or shame you in some way into being a better doormat, I mean WIFE. A better wife.

Ask your husband what he would be upset about and then plan accordingly.

I would say it sounds very much like a reactivation/strengthening the members. I recall a similar thing a few years ago when i was in the eqp. Some ga or other was coming for a stake conference and we were asjed to provide names of less active/newly baptized families that he could visit. I don't know how the visits went i didn't go but i think they ended up going to about 5 or 6 houses. I suspect they shared an uber special spiritual thought and maybe did an uber special blessing. I would imagine they expect you to be there but honestly it is your home. If you do end up sitting with them i'd just feed them the lines they're looking for and pretend to be the happiest person in the world. You can go back to normal after they leave

I don't judge you. You got to do what you got to do to. I had to make a lot of sacrifices when I was trying to save my marriage. I'm sorry you're being put in this position. It's only for one evening though. I would just hang in there and try to make small talk that veers away from Mormon nuttiness. Your being there keeps them from talking about you behind your back, actually. But maybe if the conversation goes on awhile, you could excuse yourself to take a phone call or something. Good luck. :(

I would be asking someone Exactly why a 70 is coming to your house. I would be curious to hear the answer.

If it's because he wants to talk to you, I would ask for a private and confidential conversation with him.

I would then start at the top of the list. Which one of the 7 visions is the true one? And on from there. That might take a while.

When done, I would ask him why I should make any effort to believe any of it when there have been so many leaders, starting with JS, that have twisted, lied, and hidden the truth about so many things. You can't trust any of them to be honest with you.

I would then tell him that after much study, prayer and fasting you received the clearest most unmistakeable answer to a prayer that you've ever received in your life. You prayed to know if "these things are not true." The answer was as clear as as an August summer sky...."NO they are not! If you're not being nurtured or fed by going to this church, then don't go any more."

Then I would tell him that I don't have the kind of courage it takes to go against God and ignore the answer to my prayers. Otherwise, what's the point of prayer if you ignore it? You are following Gods will for you.

You may even type up a list of questions to read so you don't forget anything. You most likely won't get this chance again.

Do you have a voice activated tape recorder? Myself, I would go get one. After all, it's your house. A hidden camera with sound might be good too.

IMO, he's the one that should be in a tizzy. As a representative of the church, he has some answers to come up with. Lame answers not acceptable. He's in your territory, trying to get into your mind. He's used to people thinking he walks on water. They don't.

I once met with a GA. He asked me if I was nervous. I said no, should I be? He looked stunned. Apparently I was supposed to be all intimidated. Nope. He was just an old man that could barely stay awake long enough to talk to me.

I totally agree--prepare a list of questions in advance and have it on hand (you could solicit a list here if you don't have one of your own already... In fact, that might be a good way to edit it and pare it down to the most material questions--you'll want to let him know right off the bat that you are informed and not just another sheep).

I also think that a digital voice recorder is a very good idea. You never know when it may come in handy... (Whether or not you "use" the transcripts at a later date--of course, you would want to inform yourself about legal issues first...)

Finally, I totally agree that this is your turf and he is the one who should feel intimidated etc. You are not there to answer his questions (particularly if they are personal or what have you). He is there to "minister" to you, so feel free to put him on the spot and demand answers from him.

Nervous? Don't be... Check this link out: http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are.html

In any case, be pleasant enough, but don't back down. I assume you may genuinely want to know what he has to say if you pursue a Q&A with him... I would.

Who invited the FIL?

Good luck! This may prove to be a unique opportunity... (BTW, if you don't feel like asking questions than I would recommend participating as an observer/anthropologist and being quite clear about not exhibiting any deference to this self-appointed "leader". Draw a firm line in the sand, politely, but make sure it is firm. You are under no obligation to answer any of his questions, should he be so stupid and invasive as to ask any.)

Smile politely and say nothing unless they ask.

Then, say, "My spiritual life is very private. I just don't feel comfortable discussing it with others." You can even add the word "sacred," as in, "It's too sacred to discuss."

Gracefully retreat to clean the kitchen (and petition the pagan goddesses of the hearth to get those guys outta there!).

Agreed. Love that line! "Too sacred to discuss..." Awesome!

That's too awesome!

People need to start using that line when Morgbots try to intrude into their religious space.

Wow - you're good at that whole Mormon deflection thing. I acknowledge your greatness.

go shopping or something OUT OF THE HOUSE.
Don't even be there when they arrive. This is not your deal.

They have no answers to your questions and will find away to dismiss them as irrelevant (especially since you are a woman).

The only thing you want to know is:

Will they support the integrity of your marriage or will they undermine your marriage by encouraging your husband to disregard your opinions/concerns? Will they encourage your husband to remain a loving, supportive husband or will they encourage him to leave you and take your child with him?

Will they support your role and authority as a parent or will they undermine you by not consulting you or encouraging your husband to make all decisions without taking your opinions into consideration? Will they make your child and object of demaning pity as a "less-than, non-eternal family"?

Will they demonstrate Christian values by discouraging gossip about your 'worthiness', marriage, parenting OR will they allow/encourage speculation and gossip?

Will they respect your decision to worship as you see fit or will they make you (along with your husband and child) a ward project? Will they encourage ward members to interact with you in genuine friendship or will the encourage them to shun you?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 05:33PM by caedmon.

Great points. That's why, even if she doesn't query them about the issues, she needs to be on hand so she can protect her marriage.

I think you should be there to set boundaries.

Don't let them undermine you to your own husband, in your own home. I think you can guess the sorts of things they may try to get you or your family to do: stuff like reading scriptures, family prayer, etc.

Come up with ideas of things to say ahead of time. "Sir, my religious beliefs and observations are not up for discussion or debate. You have a right to your own beliefs, but you don't have a right to mine." Or maybe try to think of something less blunt, because you may not want to offend the FIL. But just remember that YOU don't deserve to be offended, either. And you are on your own turf.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 10:42PM by imaworkinonit.

It sounds to me like you need to ask DH why this is happening to start with. If it is what you suspect then you should probably have a talk with DH and let him know your expectations and boundaries beforehand so he knows what to expect from you. Do only as much as you feel comfortable with.

At least that is my advice



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 05:57PM by sanitationengineer.

You may want to consider not taking an offensive position unless forced to do so. I say this in the interest of maintaing peace with your TBM spouse. Taking an offensive position and hitting the TBM's with facts generally results in them bearing their testimony and shutting down mentally. It also results in anger and hurt feelings with the TBM wife. I don't go there as long as they don't try to recruit me. Just my 2cents on trying to stay happily married to a TBM.

Thanks everyone. This gives me some good ideas. If feels funny and I am hoping it isn't trickery. My father in law is angry with me because of my ex membership and treats me very distantly. With him there I don't want him to get angered further. A few things stuck out which is, I am going to be confident with my body language. Polite but not open because I am speaking to a group who do not view me well and who will not understand me. I will make it about hospitality and that's it. If I am confronted I will tell them as a convert it did not make logical sense for me and I realized it as time went on, and that after awhile it was not a goal I wished to aspire to so I lost interest entirely. My marriage is under strain already and so I can't help but feel a little threatened by their influence they have over my spouse's brain.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 06:28PM by Suckafoo.

You should NOT have to deal with a committee of people, including angry FIL. That could turn into an ambush, where you aren't allowed to defend yourself.

Your spouse should be defending you as a person, even if he disagrees with you religiously. Maybe you should hubby tell FIL that because of his hard feelings against you, the spirit won't be felt if he shows up. ;-)

Thanks. Sniff.

Yeah, sort of like the prayer circle at the temple. Only the best of feelings can exist in this room.

If you have resigned, then you are not a member. Period.

I would entertain them just as you would a Catholic priest, a Jewish rabbi, or a Buddhist monk. Be polite and hospitable. Inquire about their families. Serve them food or drink. Treat them with respect but don't let them get overly personal about your own beliefs and religious preferences. That is not their business. Make it clear that you support your husband, but you do not share his beliefs. Demand their respect for that, and lift your eyebrows at them (and possibly say, "I beg your pardon?") if they cross the line.

Yes. Like another religious figure. I'm not a Mormon anymore so I don't have to answer to them. I'll just be respectful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 08:00PM by Suckafoo.

What I know about this program:
When a GA visits for stake conference, the SP is asked to provide the names of 3 or 4 inactive members. Then the GA/SP/bishop visit them on Saturday morning of conference weekend. It is clearly a re activation ploy. HOWEVER, since you are no longer a member, I don't know why you are on their radar.

Refuse to be "visited" .. let this be about your husband who is the believer.

Refuse to give them any authority or power over you.

You can be cordial, polite, smile, then leave the room. You brethren have a nice visit. I have to leave now.

Refuse to be drawn back in.
No thank you. I'm really not interested right now in visiting with you fine gentlemen! :-)

One more thing: if it were me, I'd have a talk with hubby about this kind of intrusion into your home. Your difference about beliefs are really none of their business and let him know, that you will not be talking to them. It's our business and tell him you'd prefer that you cancel their offer of a visit.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2013 10:59PM by SusieQ#1.

I'm with Suzie Q#1.

You have already made the decision to place your marriage as the highest priority.

Your marriage is already under strain.

You have already made sacrifices to accommodate your husband's religion.

Balance would indicate he should also make some sacrifices, such as not expecting you to participate in a priesthood meeting including his father. That situation is a match and a powder keg, if you get my drift.

You have everything to lose and nothing to gain by engaging with them.

I vote for a tone of English tea from you --and then you leave the room with a simple, "Thank you for coming, please excuse me."

Make sure your husband knows you will be excusing yourself because you are not comfortable in the situation (grossly outnumbered in your own home). He should certainly be willing to accommodate your feelings considering all you are doing for the marriage.


Anagrammy

Are you sure they aren't coming to offer your husband a special calling?

They can't give him any sort of awesome calling because suckafoo isn't Molly Mo. Suck it, cult!

don't be home....simple, go shopping or something

It's understandable that you feel you want to protect your marriage.

But if your husband keeps up this kind of pressure how do you see this working out long term?
You have a child plus you are working and on top of that he is bugging you about the cult.

It might be better to tell him in no uncertain terms that he needs to stop with the conversion schemes.

I have to agree with Leah.....what is the future at this pace??

I agree with Leah, also. Judging from your posts, this feels very one-sided to me. I feel like you are the one making all the concessions. If this continues, resentment towards DH will grow, until the relationship becomes unbearable and must terminate. If you truly wish to save your marriage, you must take care of your self and your child. DH's expectation of your participation in this meeting does not feel like love to me. Does it to you?

Wow, suckafoo, this really sucks. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.

You DO NOT HAVE TO SUBMIT TO THIS! If you don't want to talk, to them/him, you don't have to. You can tell them you won't be there, if you want to. If you want to just be gone, that is fine too. No one has the right to make you talk about anything you don't want to, especially some stranger! The nerve is incredible but pretty normal LDS tactics. We're conditioned to submit to it, don't! You have total control over who you talk to, where and when.

I understand your issues with your marriage and that makes things much more complicated, especially where children are involved. However, if your husband is not willing to acknowledge your views and feelings, really, what is there left? How long can you subject yourself to this misogynistic organization and fake it in your marriage before becoming a really unpleasant person who hates herself? Is that really what you want your children to see and learn?

Sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but it is not uncommon,especially in the LDS Church. Either he accepts you the way you are or he doesn't. You either pretend to be something/someone else or you don't. Anything in-between is fake and while it may buy some temporary time, won't last. Whether you choose to acknowledge this now or not, it's pretty much the way it is.

I also understand, from situations of friends and family, that sometimes "playing possum" is the best means of survival. While I encourage you to stand up for yourself, if it is in any way a dangerous situation (including emotional, financial and physical danger - they all count), don't push it, do what you need to do for now but start planning a way out.

Only you know what you need to/can do right now. There have been lots of really good suggestions from people here and there are actually a lot of resources for women needing help. If you need them, for any reason, please look and find them in your area, there is probably a women's resource center somewhere nearby. Be strong, stand up for yourself in whatever way is right for you now.

I wish you the very best and if there is anything you need in the way of support please don't be shy. Good luck!

Sounds like you are being ganged up on. If it were me I'd try to find a non Mormon CLOSE friend who knows the score, is supportive of you and who is batting in your corner to be there. If you don't know anyone like that and there is enough time, you might find a support group for abuse victims and ask a leader to be with you for this. Or maybe ask a therapist for some advice on how to handle it. It would be easy to have this person arrive unexpectedly and just say, "It's such a big deal to have a 70 in our home I told "----" all about tonight and she really wanted to come". That's alright isn't it?" Are there any RfM groups in your city? You might find one of us who would/could help you out with this. I really don't think you should be alone. It might be a harmless schmooz session for the 70 but just in case it's a "let's put Suckafoo in a strangle hold and humiliate her into doing something she doesn't want to do" I'd really want backup.

So unless you're prepared to kiss his ring, you're in a no-win situation.

When I have been asked why I left the Church I usually say

"I don't believe that Joseph Sith saw God the Father and His son, Jesus Christ. I don't believe the Book of Mormon is the Word of God."

It is unfortunate for your children that they are being taught Mormonism in your family. The Church grows!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 08:41AM by gentlestrength.