Just a bit of Cog-dis that you might share.

TSCC teaches over and over again that we are on earth to learn and grow and experience pain and make choices WITHOUT the direct influence or memories of knowing there is a God and knowing his plan. They love to point out that if we actually knew about God and his plan then we really wouldn't have the power to make choices because we would all automatically do the right thing and that's Stan's plan.

I know I was taught, and now my teenage son is taught, all the time that he is part of the "chosen generation", that he, and those his age, were held back to come forth in this time period becuase of how valiant they were in the pre-existance. Also the prophets from BY to Spencer Kimball (maybe more) taught that we were born into circumstances in this life because of how valiant (or not) we were in the pre-existance. I know in the 80's I was taught that Black people were less valiant in the pre-existance. Etc...

Add to this the scriptural support that fully 1/3 of God's people in the pre-existance openly opposed the plan of salvation and were cast out of heaven. IN FULL VIEW AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. (allegedly)

So if some were more valiant in the pre-existance it implies that some were less valiant or choose the wrong. Again, in full view of and with a full knowledge of God. YET we "must" come to earth without any of that knowledge becuase it is the only way to learn and grow and make mistakes. Total BS.

yup. we are "free" to choose the right and only the right. Makes total sense!(?)

I was taught that the reason we come to earth is so that we can 'rebel' without instantaneous punishment. The 1/3 were kicked out right away, after the battle. But we get a chance to see the concequences of our wicked actions to see if we will repent.

That's how you get around your argument srm.

Take-away-the-memories-and-there-goes-the-whole-personality-ly yrs,

S

starkravingmad,

Add to this the fact that there were apparently enough opportunities for in the pre-earth to make decisions so that the mentally/physically challenged who don't need baptism because they will automatically make it to the celestial kingdom because of their pre-earth choices/behavior. On top of that, and this is the real kicker, all those who died before the age of 8 get a go-directly-to-the-CK ticket. If the "age" at which an embryo becomes a "human" is conception, then there are untold billions who are making it to the CK.

Why do we need a body at all? As stated above, billions didn't need a body to make it.

And, how about Jesus/Jehovah? He was a god for chrissake and he was just a spirit. In his god role he created earths. And apparently mortals (as per the temple endowment).

And if god is all-knowing, why doesn't he know which of us would be worthy to go to CK without this trial period?

Apparently he knows in the cases of all the kids who die in utero, but not the rest of us?

I really wish there were an all-knowing god that could be trusted, but he's not to be found in mormonism.

My assessment of this inane/insane "plan of salvation"-

1/3 are never really given a chance to pass because they chose wrong at the gates, so God cast them out. (Doesn't sound like a very loving, forgiving, patient, or understanding creator who is allegedly 'perfect')

2/3s are given a chance at this plan, but are exiled and brain-wiped to guarantee they have no previous knowledge of this grand plan. And in this predicament also guaranteed get cast out of they don't do exactly what he wants.

So.....Is this a God who

1- Really wants his people to pass this test

and

2- You'd really want trust or want to go back to.

I never understood how God banished 1/3 of his children. We were taught that we didn't know between good and evil. We were like little children. So God banishing 1/3 of his kids is like kicking out a young child for doing something they shouldn't.

...held together with smoke, mirrors and inattention.

The idea of a war in heaven is another idea that was ripped off by Smith. Read John Milton's epic poem "Paradise Lost".

Why do you think there even WAS a pre-existance?

Isn't that in the Book of Abraham?.......which we know was made up!

If you believe the Bible, it does not say (in Genesis) that God took a living soul and put it into Adam.

It says God breathed the breath of life into Adam and Adam BECAME a living soul.