Don't religions have an 'us vs. them' attitude? Phrases like:
- come to church with us
- true church
- witnessing to people
- bear a testimony
- different 'scriptures'
- language differences: Latin, Hebrew, German, etc.
etc.

Doesn't joining a group, set you apart by definition? Some groups divide their own people:
- men, women, youth, children, nursery
- rich & poor
- manner of dress sets them apart from society (Mormons, Fundies, Amish, Orthodox, etc)
- some women are not allowed to speak or talk at church
- sprinkled or dunked

These questions have bothered me for a long time. Any comments?

I heard a saying a long time ago and if I remember it correctly it went something like, "the world is divided into two groups, the righteous and the unrighteous, and the righteous do the dividing."

I remember a chat I had with an Evangelical friend I'd known from childhood when I was still TBM. I was shocked to learn that she felt I would go to hell for following a false prophet. And in the last days she believed she would be called upon as a Christian to slay any false prophets. I had this horrifying image in my mind of my old friend sticking a spear through Spencer W. Kimball (who I thought looked like one of Santa's elves). Until that day I thought she and I were in harmony with our basic Christian values. NOT! I can't help but wonder now if she thinks I'm worse or better a person as an atheist. Follower of false prophet vs. total heathen. Guess I'm dead in her mind either way. lOl

Cynthia, another division. Does that mean the 'righteous' ones prescribe to a specific religion, & the 'unrighteous' do not? Very interesting quote.

Cali Sally, I, too, have a friend who thinks like that. She is a born again Christian. Her thinking is now that whomever is not a BAC like her, are going to hell. I told her I am not going there as I don't believe in hell. That really pi$$es her off.

The quote wasn't that specific, I do remember that. Each religion has it's own understanding of righteousness within the belief of that religion. It must have been meant in a generic righteous religious sense and that those who don't follow the rules of any of the prescribed religious belief systems are considered unrighteous....I guess. Makes pointing of fingers an easy task.

Buddhism and Hinduism are ways of life and nonjudgmental and recognizes different paths to salvation

wellsville Wrote:
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> Buddhism and Hinduism are ways of life and
> nonjudgmental and recognizes different paths to
> salvation

I agree generally speaking... But there are many, many
examples to be had of Hindus attacking Muslims, killing
Muslims, driving Muslims from their homes. The nations
of Packistan and Bangadesh are a result of the latter.
That is not to say that the Muslims have not been equally
responsible for these hostile divisions -- maybe even
more to blame than the Hindus.

In South Asia I came across people who worship Kali.
Taken to its most exclusive extremes, this variety of
Hinduism fosters the "thugs" who kill others as a part
of their religious beliefs.

So... Beware of anybody who tries to place a benign
lable upon Hinduism -- it is a diverse and complex set
of religions, some of which are far from tolerant.

Although Buddhism has managed to get past the worst
aspects of the Hindu caste system and Hindu intolerance,
we still see outbreaks of Buddhist-on-others violence.
A lot of that has gone on in Shri Lanka and Tibet, and
now we see it in Burma. The Buddhists involved in these
conflicts are not always totally to blame for the
us-against-them hostilities, but Buddhism can be divisive.

Religious societies, by their very nature, tend to divide
communities. Even the most tolerant, inclusive religious
groups tend to look out for themselves, at the expense
of outsiders.

The least divisive, most tolerant religious group I have
ever discovered is the Unitarian-Universalist Church.
They are far from perfect, as individuals and as a body,
but they at least make an attempt at not dividing people.

UD

"Strange and Foolish Walls" by A. Powell Davis:

The years of all of us are short, our lives precarious.

Our days and nights go hurrying on and there is scarcely time to do the little that we might.

Yet we find time for the bitterness, for petty treason and evasion.

What can we do to stretch our hearts enough to lose their littleness?

Here we are—all of us—all upon this planet, bound together in a common destiny,

Living our lives between the briefness of the daylight and the dark.

Kindred in this, each lighted by the same precarious, flickering flame of life, how does it
happen that we are not kindred in all else?

How strange and foolish are these walls of separation that divide us.

------

"It Matters What We Believe" by Sophia Lyon Fahs

Some beliefs are like walled gardens. They encourage exclusiveness, and the feeling of being especially privileged.

Other beliefs are expansive and lead the way into wider and deeper sympathies.

Some beliefs are like shadows, clouding children's days with fears and unknown calamities

Other beliefs are like the sunshine, blessing children with the warmth of happiness.

Some beliefs are divisive, separating the saved from the unsaved, friends from enemies.

Other beliefs are bonds in a world community where sincere differences beautify the pattern

Some beliefs are like blinders, shutting off the power to choose one's own direction.

Other beliefs are like gateways opening wide vistas for exploration.

Some beliefs weaken a person's selfhood. They blight the growth of resourcefulness.

Other beliefs nurture self-confidence and enrich the feeling of personal worth.

Some beliefs are rigid, like the body of death, impotent in a changing world.

Other beliefs are pliable, like the young sapling, ever-growing with the upward thrust of life.

It came as somewhat of a surprise to me the day that I realized that ALL organizations divide people. That is their purpose. People organize in order to promote a certain viewpoint whether for safety, entertainment, service to others, political purposes or whatever.

Most organizations exclude people with opposing views. Can you imagine the Sierra Club welcoming into its midst (for any reason other than conversion) someone who advocates burning down the forests of the Sierra Nevada.

A campus group such as Young Democrats would be rather nieve to allow an avowed Republican to assume a leadership role within the organization. Yet one of the few places I have heard of where organizations are not allowed to select their own members or leaders is in the more "liberal" universities where certain religious groups on campus are not allowed to dis-allow people with opposing (subversive?) viewpoints from assuming leadership roles within that group.

All organizations are by their very nature somewhat exclusive, divisive and intolerant. I still have a copy of a letter to the editor of our local newspaper from an instructor at the local community college in which publically demands that all conservatives should be banned from speaking pubically anywhere!

vonclare

vonclare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It came as somewhat of a surprise to me the day
> that I realized that ALL organizations divide
> people. That is their purpose. People organize in
> order to promote a certain viewpoint whether for
> safety, entertainment, service to others,
> political purposes or whatever.

Exactly. We discriminate constantly creating both formal and informal groups. It's a morally neutral endeavor that depends upon how we form groups and for what purpose. The United Negro College Fund discriminates based upon race. So does the KKK. The Salvation Army funds more charitable outreaches in a given year than TSCC has done in its entire history.

At the Reformed Church of the Fridge, we do not discriminate against anyone. All who desire a closer relationship to the REAL fridge are welcome, even those who question.

As long as they're not Jewish, black, or Chinese.

When I was looking into Quakerism I think I read in an intro book that they gave me that it doesn't suit everyone but I wouldn't swear by it. They don't have baptism and everyone can participate equally. There's also no real doctrine so it's pretty non judgemental.

I'm an atheist by the way, just in case you thought I was trying to convert you.

It's common human nature to line up in "us VS them" in all kinds of organizations: political, religious, schools, athletics, etc. And it won't stop. It's just how humans behave.

It won't stop as long as no one speaks up about it.
It won't stop as long as parents condone it in their children.
It won't stop as long as anyone says, "that's just the way it is."

I will always fight this kind of poison.