You heard me right! My life experience has taught me that the more education you get the dumber box of rocks you become. That's why so many Highly educated people are MORMONS to start with. Me, I just got sucked in and Brainwashed as a Child in the Cult so I didn't have a chance. But when I see threads like the one on Glen Beck and the stupid idiotic talk about 9 11 and people who spout off about being an Engineer and how they use that education to tell me that 9 11 was perfectly Normal it just reminds me of my Crazy freaking Brother who was ruined by his College Education. The more invested you become in "EDUCATION" The more you have to defend the stupidity of it! I have seen my Brother David do it now for 60 years and to this day, while he lives on Welfare, collects money for having adopted Filipino kids and works the system and is now making the BEST living he has ever made....he still insists it's all because of his Masters Degree and Higher Education. Because just like 9 11 he can not FACE the truth that the time and money he spent in Higher Education was nothing but a WASTE OF TIME and has never helped him in life.

I have seen this same pattern of Rationalization from dozens of Highly Educated people who actually believe because they have a Degree in this or that that they actually can see the world better than the rest of us who have not been so polluted.

I say Higher Education is worthless and turns people into Idiots who can't think at all, can't understand the simplest things in life, can't reason anything out for themselves, in other words....They are Primed to be GREAT MORMONS! And as we all know MANY OF THEM ARE!

What say You?

Meh.......not so much.

If anything, the actual substance in regard to higher education is well..... Meh..... Depending on what you do. I studied exclusively in political science. I would say the most useful trait I can take from my education is a heightened ability to apply critical thinking on any given subject. It is important to be able to approach an ideology from different angles and perspectives.

That is what I took away from college.

Sure the substance itself was interesting, and somewhat useful.

As far as getting a career in politics..........no.....I acquired my cosmetology license, have been at it for a few years, and now I am in the process of opening a salon franchise. Just signed the lease last week.

Ignorance is strength!

You got that right. Just hold your head up high and just believe! Bear your testimony that will make it all true the things you believe....bear your testimony. More self delusion is just what the world needs

It does depend on WHICH school and WHICH degree you get. For a school like BYU or a general type degree you don't learn much, however a degree in hard science teaches you fairly good critical thinking skills.

Ya know what I almost agree with you but it's like the saying, Money/Power Corrupts. For most people Education goes to their heads just like becoming the Boss goes to their heads and nice people turn into A holes.

I will tell you what a good Education is> GOING ON A MISSION FOR THE LDS CHURCH.....

No I'm not kidding...as much as I hate the life they took from me I can not deny that my time spent in the Mission field was the best Freakin Education in the world.

I mean think about it.

Because of my time spent trying to convert people to the Mormon church I now have the following Fantastic Skills.

1. I'm a silver tongued Salesmen who can sell ice cubes to eskimos.

2. I have absolutely no fear of ANYONE...WELL THAT'S NOT COMPLETELY TRUE...I FEAR THE IGNORANT! BUT OTHER THAN THAT!

3. I have NO FEAR of public speaking. Any situation, any place, and collection of people.

4. I know how to set a goal and then take smaller steps to achieve that goal.

5. I am the natural leader in whatever group I am in. I know how to lead, direct, oversee, etc.

6. I'm a Fantastic Teacher.

7. I understand and can use Visual Aids and Charts and Graphs and use them to reinforce whatever it is that I'm selling or Teaching.

8. I'm a Fluent speaker and writer who knows how to talk spontaneously and adjust the pitch to stay on point what ever point that might be.

9. I know the importance of getting my butt out of bed in the morning and starting my day with some clear intentions.

10. I learned how to work within a group, work with a partner, be part of a Team etc.

Now I could go on but the point is, anyone with a brain knows these are very valuable skills to have and many people do not have them.

I didn't go to College to get them I went on a Mission. So I will admit that of the 60 years of my life that I hate the Mormon church for taking from me, the two years I spend from 19 to 21 on a mission, had REAL life long benefits which to this day I benefit from. I do hate to admit that but like someone else said...Oh crap I think it was my Crazy Brother in a Recent Video talking about Primary Childrens Hospital in SLC....oh well truth is truth...even Cults can do some good things....I think is how he put it.

randy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Blah, blah, blah....
> Because of my time spent trying to convert people
> to the Mormon church I now have the following
> Fantastic Skills.
>
> 1. I'm a silver tongued Salesmen who can sell ice
> cubes to eskimos.

Judging from what you're trying to sell here and how it's not being sold even in a crowd that's trying to recover from a brainwashing cult I doubt this claim very much. :oP

Really? Is that why the Professor from BYU who came out and said flat out that 9 11 can't happen...the professor with all the degrees to back up what he was saying...that BYU quietly had him Retire? Because Higher Education likes people who can "Think Critically" BYU didn't like his thinking!

Well, if you consider most Mormons graduate from a CHURCH school like BYU and Ricks then maybe THAT is why they are "dumb."

+1, so true....

randy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>...
> What say You?


Note to self:

Reschedule next week's heart surgery with a physician
who is only a high school graduate -- maybe in Somalia.
Fire that Harvard lawyer and hire a drop-out attorney
in the back taxes litigation -- maybe from Borneo.

And, oh yes, cancel that airline ticket with the company
that hires college grad pilots. There's a crop duster guy
down the road who has been working wonders using balloons
and kites, since failing his flight school lessons -- no
doubt he can get me over to Honolulu just fine.

UD

Yeah just like David you keep telling yourself this and keep trying to justify all the time and money wasted learning Golf 101 and Music appreciation etc. Keep telling yourself it was worth all the student loans and all the debt.

It doesn't take a college education to become a good Lawyer....gee don't you people watch TV? Ever seen Suits? Very good example...yeah I know it's a TV show but it makes a good point which is true. People with Brains are people with Brains and they don't get any smarter because someone gives them a piece of paper to hang on the wall.....

It can...but then it's neither "higher" nor "education." And that depends on the university and the person. For some, it's just a continuation of high school. Or it can narrow you into a job-related specialization that keeps you from exploring further while increasing pride that you know it all.

But higher education should be a leaving of home--particularly the parochial mental and emotional "homes" you inherited. You start to see the world in terms of wider categories, disciplines with their own evidentiary rules, historical evolution, abstract principles, etc., and enter a wider 'community of knowledge.'

The subject matter isn't as important as the changes in thinking, awareness, and evaluation. Higher ed. doesn't always accomplish this, but again it SHOULD help develop in you a self-authoring identity which can stand apart from competing expectations of the different areas of one's life (all of which are TELLING you who you are and how you should behave) and come up with your own path.

Of course this kind of growth (which does not stop with formal education) can occur in other ways than university, and university experience is no guarantee you'll achieve it.

I appreciated this comment Richard. Sounds to me like you are someone with your head still screwed on Straight. Nice to know that College doesn't HAVE TO MAKE YOU as dumb as a box of rocks..

Higher education doesn't work for people who don't know how to apply it. A definition of intelligence is not just KNOWING a bunch of stuff, but knowing HOW to apply it.

Are there people with degrees who are dumb as a box of rocks? Absolutely. Are there people with an HS diploma who are geniuses? Of course. But to lump all people with higher education as dumb? That's just fucking stupid and willfully ignorant.

I put them all in the same boat because they all play the same game which like a software license you have to agree to or the product won't install, in the same way if you choose to go to college you have to Agree to crap like Golf 101 or Art Appreciation etc. Unlike a Tech school or a Trade School you are Required to spend money and waste time on things that have nothing to do with Becoming a good lawyer. I don't care if my Doctor is a Good Golf player. I care if he is a Good Doctor. And he has spent a great deal of his time in College doing something other than learning to be a Good Doctor or Lawyer.

It's the System of Higher Education that Sucks in my humble Opinion. This idea that you are not a Well Rounded Person without wasting all this extra time and money is just BS.

How does the fact that my Doctor knows how to play Violin well make me safer in his hands as a doctor. It doesn't! Because my Lawyer can join the PGA tour doesn't mean he's a better smarter more competent lawyer.

If Higher Education would stop all the CRAP that raises the cost of Higher Education and operate more like a Trade School then I would have a different opinion about it.

People should be able to choose a path of education when they are about 10 12 14 16 years old if they are ready to and that Education should not be full of crap that they are not interested in and has nothing to do with what they want to do.

Look I'm a Great Builder and I can build just about anything. I can do Electrical and Plumbing and Carpentry all kinds of stuff from Cement work to Ceramic tile. They are all great skills the problem is THEY DON'T TEACH THEM IN COLLEGE. And don't respond with a few little exceptions of some wood working shop class....You know what I mean.

If you want to become an Electrician you have to become an Apprentice to an Electrician and learn everything from a system that is totally outside of the College Realm.

Is the world better off with MORE lawyers or more Brick Layers? More Shrinks or more Electricians? More Economics majors or more people who can repair the many things we use in life from cars to Air Conditioners.

Higher Education the way it's set up now looks down their nose at these "Trade" professions and promotes the stupid idea that if it's not taught in College, you shouldn't get paid as well, that the job is not as "Important" to society etc. That's what I hate about Higher Education because the idiots who come out of it come out believing that kind of crap!

When I need a Doctor I need a man who knows how to be a good Doctor....when I need my Jacuzzi installed I need a good Jacuzzi installer. The crazy idea that only JOBS that REQUIRE a college education are worth pursuing in life is Stupid. And that stupidity is promoted by Higher Education.

Many universities have become more focused on profits rather than preparing students for the real world. High schools have become the same way. Trade education are just as valuable as higher education. Why didn't you just state this in the first place?

However, I disagree with letting a child choose not have a well-rounded education. Of course a kid is going to opt out of a subject he or she hates, but it could be to his or her detriment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2013 10:07PM by Itzpapalotl.

I didn't say a kid shouldn't have a Well rounded Education. What I said is that College uses that crap talk to MAKE MONEY....PROLONG THE LEARNING EXPERIENCE....JUSTIFY THE EXPENSE OF COLLEGE.

A kid should take whatever he is interested in taking and not be forced by a "FOR PROFIT INSTITUTION" TO take crap that is worthless and only time fillers and money makers for the university!

Same is true in high school. I love Music and I think Music is important but I don't think every kid that goes to High School should be forced to play an instrument and join the Glee Club.

Higher Education takes the approach that "They know best" and they will tell you what to do, and like the software licence if you don't click on "Agree" you don't get the other part that you want!

It's wrong pure and simple.

"People should be able to choose a path of education when they are about 10 12 14 16 years old if they are ready to and that Education should not be full of crap that they are not interested in and has nothing to do with what they want to do."

IDK what high school you went to, but classes like band, art, choir were all electives in my and my friends' HS's. Never heard of a public HS that forces kids to be in these kinds of classes.

Now if you're strictly speaking college and beyond, I get it. I'm not sure why people are required to take courses that have little to do with their majors, it should be an elective to take art courses or whatever if it doesn't apply to your major.

You understood me correctly! I went to Provo High School! And no...no one had to join the choir well maybe at church they did but not at school lol

...in the verbiage department, you're not making much sense, other than sounding like a rant against people who spend the time to get a higher education.

Well, good luck to you then.

p.s. No, I'm not one of those Higher Edumacated people you look down on, but I'm currently in school because I want a higher education and to learn more about the world. Being in a stasis of smarmy ignorance is not appealing to this kitty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2013 10:30PM by Itzpapalotl.

It is a fact that annual and lifetime earnings are higher on average as your level of education increases. That's not a guarantee that any one individual will meet those marks though.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf

A quick google search will yield similar studies showing the same. Does this make you smarter? No - many go today just to stay competitive in the marketplace.

You said your mission is what gave you experience. For most kids today that don't go on a mission (aren't lds), the 4-year college experience does the same, gets them out of the house, living on their own, getting up and attending classes, working in groups, and taking jobs to pay their way through it (or dropping out trying). They are essentially doing the same thing you did, without all the extra ridiculous rules layered on top. Some people excel in that environment and some don't. Education is ALWAYS what YOU make out of it.

You make my point exactly. Speaking of Cults....In my opinion Higher Education is a Cult! Exact same Cult principles apply.

randy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You make my point exactly. Speaking of Cults....In
> my opinion Higher Education is a Cult! Exact same
> Cult principles apply.


Not sure what your point is. Anger at your brother for gaming the system? Anger at degree holders who make more or appear to look down on tradesman? 9-11 wasn't perfectly normal?

I agree with you that if a degree holder looks down on those with trade skills, then they aren't very thoughtful. But I disagree on your charge of cultism. I don't see the connection there at all (primarily due to the fact that you can't even attend college until you are a presumably a fully-functional adult with all your reasoning faculties - not raised in something from the time you were born). Thinking is generally challenged constantly in higher education, not so in the cult. College's purpose is to expose you to a range of ideas/disciplines - the cult is there to only teach you one idea - loyalty to them at all costs.

By the way, it isn't because they see the world any "better" than you, as you put it. It's because they generally are better read with the history/background of their discipline. Take the Political Science student above. They are likely more equipped to sit down and write a paper or talk on the subject of the effects of democracy on third world countries right now than you would be. Does that mean you could not? Not at all!

It just means we expect with a degree in politics/policy we expect them to be versed on the subject more than the average person. Same as we'd expect you to be a better electrician or plumber than the apprentice who's starting on the job the first day (But by the same turn it doesn't mean the apprentice couldn't be more skilled than you right? Maybe they've been working with a dad/brother from the time they were 10 - you've just been getting paid longer :) ).

I'm going to try and help you see the connection I was making. In a Cult you are "INDOCTRINATED" surely you would agree with that. You are taught to think a certain way, look at things in a certain way and therefore believe in a certain way.

Higher Education does the EXACT same thing. Because it offers you a few more perspectives doesn't change the fact that what you wrote is exactly proof of what I'm saying.

Who goes to college and doesn't come out thinking they are "Better Read" and therefore...all the crap you just said.

That's the cult connection. People come out of College thinking that College people are "more well read" better Prepared to do this or that....IT'S CRAP...IT'S NOT TRUE!

That's the comparison I'm making! Just as the teaching of a Cult are not true, the Teaching of Higher Education as I have explained are also NOT TRUE!

By your definition then, a plumber and an electrician are both indoctrinated into their trades. But would you define the trades as cults? That's the point I'm trying to make.

I don't know what Planet you are living on but if you take a look at the list of skills I listed....MOST COLLEGE GRADS do not come out of college with those kinds of useful skills.

College Grads are not known to be great public speakers. And if they are it isn't because they went to college unless of course their major was Debate...that might be an exception to the rule

I admit that getting any kid off his butt and out of the house by the time he's 19 is a good idea and will probably improve his life but getting him a job flipping burgers on a McDonalds teams might do him just as well I think!

Hey, mellow out man. Something tells me that you have had to much high education.

My brother has for sure!

Huh ?

this

What say I? Higher education is very useful. What is Useless is random Capitalization of words that Aren't supposed to Be Capitalized.

Another TBHEI....True Blue Higher Educated Idiot!

Not so. I don't have any degree beyond high school. Just a reasonably intelligent mind and knowledge of proper grammar and sentence structure. Which, incidentally, you should learn before you hit higher education.

That's because your the dumbass brother who proves my point daily!

Yep that's what Highly Educated people do...they try to deflect rather than respond

I'd say the originator of this thread is ranting nonsensically.

I had no idea I was stupid. Thanks for the heads up, Mr. Former
Missionary Smart Person!

Glad I could be of assistance. Don't feel bad, a lot of stupid people don't know they're stupid. For all I know I could be one of them....right?

Yes, it truly seems you could be. Your opinion filled rants are entertaining to read, but contain no more provable facts than Mormonism.

It's ok....someday you'll pay back all those student loans and it will be worth it....Trust us...we know...you'll be glad you went to college....

Sounds like a Mormon Lie doesn't it! Trust us...we know what is best for you....

It appears it could be painful...

OoC, how old are you, randy?

63

Somebody sounds a little jealous.

Jealous...you got to be kidding. I can do more the $10 than my brother can do $1000 and my daily life proves it and so does his. But you are right...David has Always been jealous of me. But then again, he should be sooooooo.......

I would argue that at least part of the correlation between Mormon's and higher education is the fact that Mormon's run a couple of very large institutions of higher education. I am doubtful however that educated people in general would tend to convert to Mormonism, but rather one of the many rites of passage in Mormon culture is attending one of the BYU's.

I second the points made others here that one of the most valuable takeaway's that people leave college with is critical thinking skills. I would only stress that this is actually a pretty big deal, and not some mediocre benefit. Critical thinking is the power of decision making, and life is all about decisions. I'll offer an example. The OP started his comment like this:

"My life experience has taught me that the more education you get the dumber box of rocks you become."

One the mistakes that people make when they don't apply critical thinking, is to assume that their narrow field of "life experience" qualifies as sufficient data for making sweeping generalizations. Critical thinking requires us to accept that our experiences are limited, and that any hope of analysis rests in specific measurable definitions. In other words, while the term "stupid" is passable for generic discussion, it is quite unacceptable in critical thinking.

Spoken like the truly Highly Educated person you were trained to be. Do you feel better now?

What do you know of my Life experiences, how many countries I have lived in and Visited. It's typical college educated idiot talk...all assumption and all in error

Just wondering...where can I find the 'random capitalization' setting?

From my own experience of my son and daughters:

Some people see others; how they act, what they believe, things they say and decide: "This person is full of shit. And everything this person says is not to be believed."

And some people get an education and learn why these people are full of shit and why they are not to be believed.

Still others go to BYU or RICKS or aren't paying attention. They'll believe anything you tell them, as long as you are a Mormon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2013 10:38PM by wine country girl.

Now that is some good Critical College Thinking. Well done!

Circa 1970, 13% of Americans received a bachelor's degree. In 2009, over 25% were given a paper resembling a degree but still, only 13% of the population had a valid degree.*

College inflation has reduced the market value of a degree just like overprinting has reduced the value of the dollar.

Having said that, I am delighted to have gone to college.




*Wikipedia

Actually I never said in this Thread that going to College was a bad thing. It's buying into the whole HIGHER EDUCATION SCAM THAT I OBJECT TO.

If you need to get out of the house and have some fun and meet some new friends....College might be the right place for you.

If on the other hand you want to learn something that is actually of Value and not just a worthless piece of paper to put on your wall you might want to consider a good Trade school, or apprenticeship program.

My complaint that most are missing is that Higher Education the system as it is now sucks..and should be changed so you don't waste time and spend money you should not have to spend to get the education that you are after.

You should be able to go to college to become a Drywall Contractor. You should be able to go to College to become a master Electrician. You should be able to go to College to become a Master Carpenter or Framer or Roofer or Plumber or Heating and Air Conditioning or the many other honorable professions that society needs to function.

Why doesn't Higher Education Teach such things you ask? I'll tell you why? Because there is a difference between someone who can Talk the Talk....which is what College Teaches you and those who can Walk the Walk what one needs to learn to actually have SKILLS.

College can't teach you how to become an Electrician they can only teach you how to be an Electrical Engineer...someone who can TALK ABOUT IT and pretend he understands it all, but in reality could not wire up his own freaking house! Much less a Mall or an IRS Government Building.

When I say College I mean Colleges and Universities in General. They only talk the talk...they know nothing of walking the walk...that's why they can produce a Lawyer and not a Bricklayer

5 cents, please.

Lucy

LOL!

The real important thing to remember: Knowledge is POWER!

Ignore the nonsense!

Yeah there is a sign outside the entrance to BYU that says something like that!

What does it say outside the entrance to the MTC? "Giant egos magnified here while you wait"?

Joseph Smith loved ignorant people. They were much easier to take advantage of. He especially loved ignorant people that had young daughters.