Hi everyone!

Can you please help me out? Two young men came to my house during the weekend and I spoke to them for a long time. They gave me the Book of Mormon. They came back yesterday and wanted to read it with me, but I asked them to come back Saturday at 5PM. I will be reading the Book of Mormon, but I mainly want to preach to them gently.

I was raised by atheists and became a believer at such a young age that I don't know how old I was. It was a year where I couldn't remember how old I was but I knew there was a God and eventually I found out that Jesus was the one my heart was always full of.

How do I preach to them? I do not know much about the Book of Mormon and I want to help them see the truth.


Thank you VERY much and God bless each and every one of you. I will be here for any of you if you need someone to lean on.

Let me see if I've got this: you want help to brainwash them into to believing one mythical, incorrect book (The Bible) is correct and that another mythical, incorrect book (the Book of Mormon) is a lie? Is that about right?

I think sofia got the essentials down.

When I was Mormon, any preaching from fundamental/biblical Christianity never really parsed. If you've taken the leap that the Bible and JC are literally true (ie, God sends plagues, kills his own son, resurrects him, etc.), why not make the leap that JS could talk to god and jesus today? In this paradigm, the JS story makes sense -- there are lots of christian churches, all of which argue from the same bible, so why wouldn't god try to clear up the matter?

The answer, of course, is that none of them, including the LDS church, are true.

Thank you VERY much! I REALLY appreciate you clearing up what it sounds like I am saying. :)

I don't really want to brainwash them into believing anything and THANK YOU for telling me part of the Mormon belief. I am VERY new to it.

What I would like to do is show them where you had to suffer. Show them what parts are "cruel". I have not had the chance to read but a few pages.

I do believe in Jesus, but I do NOT believe in forcing others to believe. However, I am rather

To the OP,

Are you aware of the irony within what you are suggesting?

You want to stop two young men preaching you what they believe is the truth by preaching to them what you believe is the truth.

If you have some decency, hand them the Book back when you answer the door and politely tell them no thanks.

A moderator has to read my message first. But I want you to know I am NOT here to judge.

I want to learn more so I can better understand. I do not want to make them do anything. I just want to open up there mind.

Some questions I would have for you is what was held against you from the Bible or Book of Mormon. Stuff like that. This would give me opportunity to search out my answers.

This is YOUR opportunity to preach to me as well. I want YOU to open up my mind. I was raised by atheists and severly abused to where I actually have damage as an adult where I needed to be hopsitalized because what the damage as a child (I am talking little baby and up). My brother told me I was abused before I could even talk or walk.

I must admit I find all organized religion abusive to some degree or another. My bad experience in Mormonism made me realise that the church just abuses people better than some. But that's because it's a way of life, not just a "go to church on Sunday" religion. Look at the history of the Catholic Church, is it really any better? No. The Mormon Church is newer and more organized, so we may think it's more extreme or weird (and perhaps it is), but all organized religion is abusive to some degree. The degree is what matters. Everyone, in my opinion, who becomes a preacher is trying by their very nature, to persuade people to a certain belief and behavior. That is arrogance and manipulation. What do they really know about the eternal nature of anything we could possibly call "god"? But I digress... To answer your question on specifics, you might go to mormonthink.com and do a lot of reading.

I don't want an opportunity to preach to you. Find your own path. I wish you well. I don't believe in missionary "work." Their atheism had nothing to do with their sadism. I am sorry you were abused. I am sure you'll find many who were abused in the name of Jesus by their parents too. I could tell you of some. I am sure you don't mean to equate the too.

Thank you!! Yes, my mother was abused in the name of Jesus and is why she is atheist. People abuse with whatever tools they can.

I want to learn more and think learning from you would be a great opportunity. Why is the Bible and/ or the Book of Mormon false to you?

I would ask my brother this, but he doesn't like to talk about it at all. He thinks I chose God because I needed someone to love me and that may be true. I would still like to learn from all of you. :)

love Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He thinks I chose God
> because I needed someone to love me and that may
> be true. I would still like to learn from all of
> you. :)


Why can't you just love yourself?

Mnemonic Wrote:
--------------------------------------

> Why can't you just love yourself?
=======================================
Ooh, I think I can answer this one!

Because many abuse survivors have NO self-esteem. Some actively dislike or hate themselves... after all, if your own parents can't even love you, you must be some kind of horrible creature! Therefore to love themselves has no value or meaning because it's coming from such a flawed mess.

I LOVE this!!! You are 100% correct! I need to do this! :) Thank you!

I suggest you tell them you're not interested in converting. Increasing their numbers is their only goal.

If you want, you could tell them you want to deconvert them and to come back if they have an inclination in that direction.

I did not know that! That is what the Muslims do. :(

Be kind to them and show that you are a sincere person. Really let them tell you what they believe. Then, tell them what you believe, and why. Tell them how you feel about God and what you have experienced. Share some favorite scriptures. Challenge them to read their own New Testament strait through without any study guides and honestly try to understand what the writers were saying.

I'm not sure what I believe now, but as a missionary, interacting with kind, happy, sincere people of other faiths who most definitely disagreed with my beliefs was a real eye opener. When they get emotional and tell you they "know that the Book of Mormon is true, and Joseph Smith was a true prophet", be sure to tell them that you appreciate how sincere they are, but that you feel just as strongly about your beliefs. Mormons call this "bearing testimony", and they think that strong feelings about the church mean that God is telling them it's true. Emotions are not a sure guide to truth. Make sure you get across just how strongly you feel.

Good luck! I'm glad for the people who took time to do this for me, even if I don't now believe what they do. It was important for me to have those experiences with good, sincere people.


Haha, it also really bothered me when Christians would read the Book of Mormon I gave them, pray about it, and then tell me that God told them it wasn't true. That really confused me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2013 09:42AM by almostthere.

LOL! You are AWESOME!!! You have taught me so much just now! Thank you!!! It is great to hear from people like you! I will do just as you said!

You will find what you believe, but I encourage you to do the same...read things for yourself without others telling you what it means.

I am so grateful the way I was raised. I had to hide to read my Bible so I had no study guides or people and when I was older and got out to visit churches...I was shocked! They preach things opposite.

One thing I am dealing with is a group of "Christians" who are standing outside of planned Parenthood with "Murderer" signs. *sigh* I wish they would do their research instead of listening to the preacher. Pretend Jesus is real for a minute...(based on the stories) would Jesus do that? I hope 100% of all people here would yell "NO" to the top of their lungs.

According to the bible, Jesus would do much worse than that.

Jesus is a mafia boss selling protection. You've bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

Have you ever actually read the bible?

Jesus endorses slavery

Jesus endorses genocide

Jesus endorses infanticide

Jesus endorses misogyny

Jesus endorses rape

Maybe try reading the WHOLE bible cover to cover before you commit yourself to such a disgusting world view :)

Hi there!

Can you show me where? I have read the whole Bible many times. Thank you so much!

I found this to maybe help with the slavery answer:

If God (and Jesus is part of God) promoted slavery, then why are slave traders lumped in the same category as adulterers, perverts and liars (1Tim 1:10)? Did you know that people, in order to pay their debts at the time, often voluntarily sold themselves into slavery at the time the Bible was written? A person with certain skills could use them in servitude, and they'd much rather have done that than be in debt. Even a convicted theif could make restitution by serving as a slave (Exodus 22:3) It was an economic issue at the time the Bible was written. It wasn't something that Jesus promoted. I can see where you'd think that when you take a verse out of context though.
Gen 1:27, Acts 17:26-28 and Galatians 3:28 will tell you that all people are created by God with inate equality.

Typical christian apologetic rhetoric. What your christian resource has done is try to confuse you by distracting your attention away from slavery of non-hebrews and focusing it on the indentured servitude of hebrews. This argument only works on those who aren't operating with a confirmation bias.

Slavery in the bible:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

See the distinction?!

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

See, it's alright to beat your slaves as long as they don't die according to the bible god.

As far as your quoting timothy, try these NT passages on for size:

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

I can't wait to hear the christian who calls herself "love" will try to justify the owning of another human being as property. Let me grab the popcorn...

If this happened to me again, I would burn down the house and run off to the next state. Okay, that would be a little melodramatic, but you should certainly tell them that you are not interested. It's important to know in advance that they will not tell you most of what you need to know, so a new convert always enters the church on a non-level playing field slanted in the church's favor. You will not be told of exceedingly important things, like doctrines that will seal up your fate that they think are too sensitive for you to know now. Shoot, even the young missionaries themselves are not aware of most of that, because during their so-called mission "preparation," they are taught only how to sell a product. All they do is bear tearful "testimony" that the church is true. They KNOW that it is true!, and you must join it to be saved! They may admit that it is true that lots of stuff looks bad on the surface, but will tearfully tell you that it will all get sorted later, so quit worrying about it.

Run. Get out. Or at the very least, confront them and tell them you know what it's all about now, and you're not interested.

Do you think it is safe to speak with them? I am interested in what they believe, but I highly doubt I would join, because I do not believe in denominations. Since I follow the book of the Bible...Jesus (fiction or not) basically said that we shouldn't serperate like that. "Church" was not what it is today. Church was joining with other Christians. Such as...if one atheist was around Christians (non judgemental) it would drive them crazy after awhile, because they would want to do what the Christians don't want to do.

Same with Christians. They want to talk about God sometimes. I had all atheist friends growing up, because they happened to be non-judgmental and REALLY fun! They didn't care that I had a certain belief...they loved me anyway! Same here! I love people no matter what they believe!

Thank you for reading all this and helping me through! You all are AWESOME!!!

I wouldn't even let them in the door. Period.dot.end. Why have interest in "brainwashing" them - unless there is some personal interest.

Full stop?

I do not want to brainwash them. I am sorry that I made it sound like that. I do want to share my belief while they share theirs. :) I want to understand them. So yes...there is a personal interest. I want to understand them so that I don't run like my friends do. I do not want to be afraid of them, but understand where they are coming from.

You can hand the book back to them on moral grounds.

In the first of the book a man is told by god to lie, murder and rob a mans house, then threaten that mans servants life if he does not do what they say. Nephi is the perpetrator. Nephi broke multiple commandments in this deceitful and murderous story all with the excuse that it is better to murder one man than to have a nation not believe as they are told.

Another immoral story is the arrest, torture and murder of a man who preached that he did not believe there was a god yet there were laws stated in this same story that were in place to protect such a mans rights. After the man was murdered the people were threatened with the same fate if they did not repent or if they harkened to the non-believers (Korihor) words.

Then there is the matter of god cursing them for generations by changing their skin color from white to dark (think American Indians) and made them ugly so that the white righteous folk would not intermingle with them. When the dark folk became righteous some time later they became white again, then back to dark when they fell away from their beliefs. The LDS people actually believed this light to dark and back again nonsense as the Mormons had a program of placing Indian children with white families and in a worldwide conference an LDS prophet actually stated that a placed child was becoming whiter than their siblings back home.

How racist can you get? Mormons are quiet racists.

Then there is problem of God cursing multiple generations of people for the sins of one generation which flies directly in the face of the LDS article of faith that states that a man is punished for his own sins and not for those of his forefathers.

There are far more problems with the BOM one being the blatant and direct plagiarizing from multiple documents available to Joseph and his cohorts.

Contradiction and apologizing for it is central to belief in the BOM. Apologizing for your beliefs will be your lifes work if you become mormon. I know. I was one for forty years till I started being honest with myself and the data.

Based on moral grounds alone hand that nasty book back to them and say no thank you.

Oh my goodness! This is like the Quran (I have read that too) and it states you must kill the Trinity no matter what (which is the Christians).

It also sounds like the KKK (in which some of my family is--I do not know who is who though). They believe that dark people (blacks and so forth) are the siblings of Cain (the one who killed Able) and will never go to heaven. I guess I have black in me somewhere down in my line and I was going to be killed until my mom's mom lied to save my life and my brothers.

This is so scary!!!

Modern mormon apologists (who don't speak officially for the church) call the belief in Blacks as descendants of Cain are bald faced liars. Anyone here who was mormon before about five to ten years ago can attest to the fact that this teaching was everywhere inside the bubble of mormonism.

Go here to see what mormon prophets used to teach over the pulpit, edit, publish and send to the mormon masses.

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/curseofcain_part2.htm



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2013 10:21AM by AmIDarkNow?.

Oh my word!!! I read some of this and plan I reading it all. This is horrible!!! Is any of this in their book?

Here are references in the books that mormons carry to church every sunday. If called on it by outsiders they will say its just an anti-mormon myth. Yet here it is in black and white, no pun intended.

Book of Mormon

1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) "she was exceedingly fair and white."

1 Nephi 12:23 (prophecy of the Lamanites) " became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."

1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) "they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain."

2 Nephi 5:21 "a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

2 Nephi 30:6 (prophecy to the Lamanites if they repented) "scales of darkness shall begin to fall. . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people" ("white and delightsome" was changed to "pure and delightsome" in 1981).

Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) "whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . . ."

Jacob 3:8-9 "their skins will be whiter than yours... revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins. . . ."

Alma 3:6 "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion."

Alma 3:9 "whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed."

Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) "set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . . ."

Alma 23:18 "[Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them."

3 Nephi 2:14-16 "Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites and . . . became exceedingly fair. . . . "

3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) "they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness. . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof… and behold they were white, even as Jesus."

Mormon 5:15 (prophecy about the Lamanites) "for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us. . . ."



Pearl of Great Price

Moses 7:8 "a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan. . . ."

Moses 7:12 "Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were [i.e., except] the people of Canaan, to repent. . . ."

Moses 7:22 ".for the seed of Cain were black and had not place among them."

Abraham 1:21 " king of Egypt [Pharaoh] was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth."

Abraham 1:27 "Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood. . . ." (emphasis added to above citations).

Thank you SO VERY much!! I will look into this!

This whole thread rings my alarm bells the same way mormons do... Sheesh!

I am so sorry! I do not want you to feel that way! I want this to be a safe place for you so I will quit. :) I am VERY grateful for the answers though! :)