Here's what I didn't get. . .

How did Jesus attain godhood before living on a planet to gain his body? I've asked my TBM relatives and nobody has an answer.

Mormons claim to worship only one God, Heavenly Father. But I see the sacrament as a worship of Jesus and they also praise the man, JS.

Comments please.

Is a mystery! Cog-dis is real.

But there's usually an answer for everything in TSCC.

And WTF is up with that most Holiest of Ghosts? Isn't She also a god? Jesus, Mormon doctrine is effed up!

Forgot about Her (chuckle) too.

MLS you apparently didn't read much McConkie before your apostasy because this was discussed in length in his juvenile endeavor called the Messiah Series. Jesus wasn't a god in the preexistence he was just the oldest and bestest of God's sons. McConkie preached non stop that Jesus only became a god when he got offed and god gave him his body back. He also preached that Elohim has some kick ass sperm because Jesus wouldn't have been capable of being raised as an immortal being, unless god didn't give Jesus his godly characteristics via the celestial copulation between Elohim and Mary.

Didn't read it. But then how did Jesus create the earth without god powers? The earth was here before Jesus was humanized.

Not just Jesus/Jehovah, but also Michael/Adam. I guess it's a
temporary delegation of authority when Elohim says, "Jehovah,
Michael, go down and organize a world like unto other worlds
that we have organized but don't put this one too close to the
great light of the day like you did with Mercury and Venus, and
don't make it a gas giant, without a surface to walk upon, like
you did with Jupiter, Neptune and Uranus."

MLS,

This is one of the issues that was on my "shelf" for many years. I'll take what you've said and add just a bit to it.

IF Jesus was a "god," (or at least god-like) and not just any god, but a god capable of creating physical things, like the universe/earth/everything; and if he was capable of creating immortal things, like the universe/earth/everything (remember, they were all immortal before the fall); and if he was capable of creating humans (in the temple film he and elohim go make A&E); and if he was worthy of being venerated as a god, like supposedly he was during OT times, why did he need a physical body?

But, I like to take it just a little farther.

If some humans are so good in the pre-life, or made all the necessary choices, that they don't need the physical experience at all (like those millions of dead fetuses, whether naturally or artificially aborted) and get an automatic pass to the celestial kingdom, what's the need of physical bodies for any body?

Put the two together and you have no need to have a physical body because:

A) you don't need experiences with a body to make it to the Celestial Kingdom
B) as a spirit you can be a god

Whether Jesus was a "god" or merely "god-like" he was apparently capable of doing almost all of the god kinds of things (except maybe making more spirit babies?).

I never received anything close to an answer on why we need a body or the physical experiences of this earth to attain the CK and godhood.

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I have heard TBMs (my wife included) say that maybe Jesus had actually been previously born/died elsewhere and this whole thing was his second gig, but that brings up more problems than it solves.

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Of course, we know the reason this can't be answered - it's all made up.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2013 03:16PM by Satan Claus.

And they think they perfectly answer the age-old question of why we are here on earth. I guess there are many plans of salvation.

Thanks for going there with me. You can't talk about these things with TMBs and non-mos don't know what you're talking about.

Satan Claus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and if he was capable
> of creating humans (in the temple film he and
> elohim go make A&E);

Jesus, being only an adolescent god (he hadn't gone through
"deistic puberty" where great changes happen in your body - -
you actually get one.) didn't have an actual God-license, but
only a learner's permit. Therefore in creating any worlds or
beings he had to have Elohim there with him

And that's why the Church operates as a giant DMV.

I see. . .

Perhaps they were products of his favorite wife.

I guess all the earthy people haven't kept up with the best. Stress is building just thinking about what a failure I must have been in the pre-existence.

Monotheism, trinitarianism, tritheism, modalism, and more. . .It all makes my head spin. I'd like to see this charted out and classified.

This is actually a good question. Mormons are taught that Jesus was Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament. Of course this meant he was a God before he was born.

It doesn't make sense.

Don't try to make sense of it.

Jesus wasn't even a real person, very likely.

This question naturally follows into mainstream Christianity. Who are Christians worshiping? Yahweh or Christ? And if you say "both" because of the Trinity doctrine - which isn't mentioned in the Bible (at least not specifically) and was added in doctrine until ~4th century - that really means that Christians are polytheistic.

Mormons are clearly polytheistic, Christians are polytheistic (technically speaking)...

It's really hard to wrap your head around how anyone can believe any of this stuff.

You're right.

I'm not a Christian, nor do I play one on TV but . . .

The doctrine of the trinity makes the three gods as ONE god.
This is the part that Mormons laugh at while claiming that
they don't make fun of other religions.

The doctrine of the trinity is there specifically to make sure
that Christians are not polytheists.

The doctrine of the Trinity is closer to Mormon teaching than
the theology of the Book of Mormon in which it is just one God
exhibiting different forms. The Book of Mormon theology does
not have three separate beings who are one God (trinity) but
has one God who interacts with humans in different forms--
different manifestations. This is called Modalism.

Modalism was one of the competing versions of theology that
Christians argued about before settling on the doctrine of the
trinity.

In a modalistic interpretation Jesus in the Garden of
Gesthemane is praying to himself, whereas in the trinitarian
interpretation Jesus is one being of the "ONE GOD" that is the
trinity praying to another being of the "ONE GOD."

Trinitarian doctrine is subtler and more difficult to grasp,
which is why JS's understanding when composing the Book of
Mormon was a modalistic one that is simple enough to explain
to children.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2013 10:35PM by baura.