an 8 kid LDS family that never considered adoption but instead thought that the rest of us earthlings somehow wanted their 8-kid morg pioneer genepool-cesspool to share the planet with.

In light of the conditions on current day earth and its limited resources along with 35,000 sweet innocent kids dying EACH AND EVERY DAY in under-developed countries BIG MORMON families is the height of so-called selfish hypocrisy!

And that's all i got to say about that!

No offense to you folks who planned and cared for your kids in a proper fashion versus just poppin' them out MorgBot style.

I mean, we were all just following orders. (I only had 3 but managed to pass on the schizophrenia my mother passed on through me)

I wonder how many children each of the 15 have, as well as the GAs, and whether any adopted? I know there was a thread a while back about number of children, and I think most did not have so many--nothing like 8 as I recall. Am I wrong?

Agree whole heartedly....no one should have kids if they don't want them. How stupid of anyone to tell them they should. And an 8 or 10 kid family misses lots of one on one time with parents. It is sad.....and mom and dad just can't spend quality time alone with each. Common sense. Older kids raising smaller ones is how it is done and that is just WRONG!!!

It doesn't bother me to be called selfish for being child-free. It makes me laugh and say, "You are abso-fucking-lutely correct!"

I take issue with pioneer gene pools being equated to cess pools.Fuck you!!! That is akin to racism. Nobody born on this earth can choose what family they ary born into. You are speaking like an ignorant biggot.

Oops sorry!

I meant only the mis-guided social misfits pioneer genepool-cesspool genealogical line that were the early adopters of Mo'ism who felt the need to feel important and otherwise superior to those around them by hitching their wagon (or should i say handcarts) to Mo'ism.

Hopefully that clarifies it for you rather than just arbitrarily tossing your family into the mix that may or may not have been direct descendants of the Nauvoo line.

You follow?

As the fourth of six children, my parents and siblings don't understand why my wife and I choose to be child-free. We don't want kids. On the off chance we ever change our minds, we know we'll adopt. Why would we bring a child into this world when there are already so many who need good homes?

And luckychucky, no one is faulting the poor kids. You're right, they don't get to decide. It's the parents. Yes, it's true that a lot of family trees in small towns (not just in Utah) look like spiderwebs (my family tree has at least one, if not more branches that have been grafted together) and sadly, it means some of these Pioneer gene pools are getting very rank. But it isn't the kids' fault. It's the parents who are duped into thinking the command to multiply and replenish the earth was directed at them individually.

The bigger, and more concerning, issue is that too many couples have large families too early. They just don't have the resources (time, money, wisdom or space) to give the entire brood a proper upbringing. Children become a status symbol. And while I don't question the parents' love, these poor kids are still pawns.

It's not selfish to be child-free. It's not selfish to choose to have the size family you really want (whether it's none, one or a dozen kids). What's wrong is when a couple lets any outside influence set the size family they have.

Different people have different beliefs and goals for their lives.

That doesn't make anyone selfish.

The only truly selfish thing in MY book is to create children out of carelessness or some twisted sense of obligation and then not to be able to give them the love they need and raise them right.


I must admit, it does baffle me when I see people with a ton of kids. How can anyone keep up with THAT many and really give them the attention they need? Does anyone really WANT that many? I tend to think that certainly they must think they are obligated to have as many as they can.


I think the solution to population growth does not lie in trying to villify those who have more children, but to make sure people have access to education and birth control. And convincing people that THEY indeed DO have the right to decide how many kids they want.

I agree. I have 7 sibs, and we definitely lacked for individual attention, us older kids had to take care of the younger ones, etc.

There is a small town close to the one I grew up in that is even more Mormon than my hometown. I hate going there, but sometimes do for events, as my MIL works at their school. I can't stand seeing kids run all over the place completely unsupervised in clothes that are too small and holey, and no jackets on in the cold. It really upsets me.

I try really hard not to judge anyone for the choices they make in life, whether they have kids or not, or whatever. But it makes me angry to see kids being neglected in the name of being a proper Mormon. Somebody has to think of the children.

Mormonism, Islam, Fundie this or that, etc, are a blight upon our gorgeous planet.

Especially in Utah here i frequently see larger families at the big stores and i kid you not some of the kids are walking around with blank stares on their faces that make you wonder what their home life is really like.

Are they going to grow up to be an asset to society or a drag upon society.

Makes me wonder sometimes if there are any branches at all in their family tree.

Just a subjective observation of course.

Married 11 yrs and childless. At first it was not by choice, but that is another story and it was a choice to not do fertility treatments again and be happy childless.DH and I are very happy with our state and our marriage and we're thankful we don't have kids. Just a few day ago we were cringing at the thought that we could have had a 10 year old.

But being mormon women and childless is like talking a foreign language to people in the church. They don't understand why you would not want one, why in the world would you not want to adopt. YOU"RE SUPPOSSED TO HAVE CHILDREN. GOD SAID SO. I stopped being invited to activities. Women refused to talk to me. When I moved to new ward, the first question was how many children do you have. I answered none, amd women turned and walked away from me. None of this is an exaggeration. My husband's parents had an anniversary party and we were not invited to be part of the sibling picture, because it was for their children and grandchildren. This was from a sil not my mil who was actually very upset when she heard this happened.

Oh and this was after only being married for 4 and 5 years. I've been ex for 5 years now. What's so unusual about waiting a few years (we didn't even start trying until year 4 of marriage), but in the church it's like heresy. Didn't I know there were spirits waiting for an earthy body. Geez.

Anyone who doesn't want his offspring to live like vegans who have to pay $10 for a gallon of gas, should not have more than one kid.

Why are rich countries becoming poorer? Because they are no longer the only people in the world buying its resources. Americans now have to compete with a growing middle class in Asia. Even if ninety percent of Asians remain poor, ten percent of four and a half billion is a lot of competition.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2011 04:48PM by Zeno Lorea.

I don't criticize you or anyone else for choosing not to have children. And I think it's bullshit for you to criticize me for my choice to have a lot of children. I have gotten this from several people on this board. I had 6 from a previous marriage, and married a woman with 5 from a previous marriage.

Hey JF, no judgement, just curiosity- how much time do you really get to spend with each individual kid when you have that many?

... not to mention the property taxes I have to pay that fund school systems I've never used.

Timothy

Here is a thought: my married daughter (I have 5 kids, this is the only married one, so far) just announced that she and her husband will not be having kids.

Their reasons are very good ones.

I, the mother of five, envy them their freedom.

And I secretly hope they will someday rethink.

But I respect their choice. It was made for all the right reasons.

I did not become a mom to be a grandmother.

I feel a certain amount of kinship with you, anon, because I am on your side. I have to explain to all the Catholics and Morg that my kids are not at all selfish but forward thinking adults who have a firm grip on reality. Good for you. Good for my daughter. They're going to join the Doctors Without Borders. I'm getting a puppy. Y'all are gonna have to help me name him/her!

I've said before--I believe having children is selfish.

I'm a parent--and I had my kids FOR ME. I didn't realize it at the time, but that is exactly why I had them. What further purpose is there to have kids, especially with things as they are now--than to stroke our own egos? My kids didn't ask to be born.

Wow, cI2, go easy on yourself! It may have been selfish, but from reading your posts I have no doubt whatsoever that there are some pretty amazing young people out there, courtesy of you!

It's over. Done. From now outward, let's encourage the next generation to be thoughtful about how they choose to procreate. But let's also recognize that we did what we did with the best intentions!

The "selfish" charge is a cheap guilt trip for taking the path they didn't have the courage or opportunity to follow.

It is used by people too lazy to think up a creative guilt trip.

And on a side issue, being "baby-hungry" is one of the very few phrases for which I am seriously tempted to choke the speaker. It is a grotesque phrase on several levels.