I am anonamouse for this because I am afraid I might be recognized but I think that this is kind of interesting.
While my TBM mother was the RS President one of the women started to loose her mental capacities. The women's husband had died, adult child #1 had cut her off, and non-active adult child #2 did all that he could to help her to point of neglecting his wife who then asked for a divorce. He recognized he could do no more without loosing his job and family and this is when he asked the ward to step up to do more, the bishop said no because family could do it. Long story short, women's dementia escalates and she is sent to a nursing home that is in the same stake but a different ward.
My mother visits her a few times in the nursing home and because women still recognizes her and my mother is helping as the RS Pres the nursing home see's her as an important contact. the women is no longer in my mom's ward, but the new RS president doesn't come and visit. My mom calls to suggest VT start to visit, but nothing seems to happen. No rides to church are arranged, no one brings her the sacrament, no VT. My mom, a good person, still visits about once a month because she doesn't want her to be lonely.
I know another person whose ward includes a prison. She and her husband were given a calling to work with the prisoners who were TBM. As a couple they were given not instructions on what to do. Again no one brought sacrament even when the prisoner was worthy, no Home teachers. They weren't even supposed to visit regularly, it was more about reacting if there was a call. They also had other callings as well.
I know another TBM in a different ward who had a Mental Health facilitiy in it. This ward also had someone with a calling to be assigned to the facility. They were the contact for the patients who were TBM. Still no sacrament, rides to church (when possible), no VT, no HT, etc.

That was a very kindly thing for your mom to do to keep contact with this woman. It seems to me that the one good thing about VT/HT would be to visit people who are in a vulnerable position and who might really enjoy some company.

It would be nice if the church let people who wanted visits sign up for them, and left everyone else alone.

Yes, would be nice if the VTs came to see them...rather than bugging those of us families who don't want to hear from them. It's very kind, what your mother does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2013 06:20AM by stillburned.

These unfortunate people have nothing to offer the church.

Let's be honest, here. They are drains. The corporation can visit and visit and bring the sacrament and for what? They will probably not pay tithing now or ever.

That's not a good use of resources. Far better they bombard a higher-earning productive apostate where at least there's a chance, maybe a matter of just the numbers. You deliver 100 plates of cookies, ten are going to say, "Cookies! I do believe in Joseph Smith, after all!"


Anagrammy

You are so right. And the reason is because this "church" does not exist to serve its members. It exists as long as the members serve it.

Growing up in the Episcopal church, we often had to ride by a nursing home on the way home from church so my mom (who was on the alter guild) could deliver the flower arrangements that were in church that day so the residents could enjoy them while they were fresh.

The priests were always going to hosptials, homes, and other facilities to celebrate communion (sacrament) with any church members who desired it.

That church serves its people.

It isn't about visiting the needy. The LDS have soup kitchens for that. No, wait.

I'm not saying there aren't charitable people. Of course there are. But mostly the real charitable stuff is done by them outside of church, and just done out of decency. Not as a result of a calling. Like what your mom did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2013 11:42PM by snuckafoodberry.

Grant Palmer was an LDS prison chaplain I believe. It possibly depends on location.

I have never heard of LDS service to the helpless here in NZ. Any opportunity to put on the yellow vest is taken up, but those in prisons and institutions are another matter.

All of us were active and TBM at the time. My mother (91) was in the hospital following a serious life threatening event. A family friend arranged sacrament to be brought by himself and the bishop. The bishop hadn't even visited prior. He came, held the sacrament tray out towards my TBM mother at the end of his fingers from as far away as he possibly could. She was not contagious, or even looking bad, just really ill. He mumbled some stupid sh** like "doesn't look like you're going to make it this time" and left. He was SUCH a jerk. I could go in to lengthy explanations and examples of the kind of worthless idiot, puffed up pompous ass that he was, but it's not worth my time. We endured him, still thinking at that time that "the church is true". Ugh. How I wish she was still alive to know what we know. I know she and my dad would have left. They were not shy about doing things right when they learned truth.

What I logged in to say was that I work in LTC. There are several members of my old ward who are getting to the point of being admitted to my facility. Some of them currently attend an adult day program there (which allows for caregiver respite). I'm steeling myself to work with these individuals in a therapeutic relationship. And it's going to take all the professionalism I have to deal with their family members. I've said here before that there are a few members of my old ward who I love dearly and we keep in regular contact. But this bunch? Oh, my, no. Do not tell me that I'm going to be caring for them and expected to ensure they have their garments put on over their incontinent briefs.

TSCC could not care less about the needy.

They are considered a non-performing asset.

Like a loss leader in a store.

Yeah it was a very kindly thing for your mother to do to keep conection with this woman. It seems to me that the one good thing about VT/HT would be to visit people who are in a vulnerable position and who might really enjoy some company.
Dementia Care Plan

I've heard of people in my ward taking the Sacrament each Sunday to people in care homes, hospital, etc.

A few of them show they care and the mormon church takes the credit.

The Bible teaches the importance of visiting those in need and those in prison, etc. TSCC would rather ex those in prison, without a trial even for those who may be truly innocent. No mormon chaplains in the prisons here.

One thing I really admire in the California Christian (big church with coffee shop, 90 min service with rock band...)church in my neighborhood is that people really serve. The paid pastor visits San Quentin at least once a month to give the same sermon, and caring people go with him to reach out. We showed up go Christmas service and joined a group of 15 headed to visit a nursing home with gifts - their group visits regularly and offers rides and/or services there. They have half a dozen service groups you can join and they do things that make a difference, like serve as safe shelters for battered women or help foster youth. A use of time much better than endless callings.... The LDS church should really rethink what service means.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2013 10:41AM by vh65.

THIS WAS ONE OF MY 1ST CLUES THE CHURCH WASNT "TRUE". To paraphase Christs teachings in the NT. When God separates the wheat from the chat. THE chaft asks why they arent accepted he says; when I was in prison you didnt visit me. When I was Sick you didnt visit me When Ia was hungry you would feed me. In the Churches eyes we are all foder for the Kingdom. Need Help!?! See ya later!

I also saw how TBM's don't really care about people in hospitals, especially if that particular hospital isn't in the ward they normally attend. When my former MIL nearly died from an infection, my ex had to basically beg the HT's to help give her a blessing, and despite promises made, nobody brought her the sacrament at all. It wasn't until she was able to go home and show up at church that she was able to get the sacrament again. I have no idea about jails/prisons, but it wouldn't surprise me if TBM's who end up there are ignored, even if it turned out they really were innocent.

This thread reminds me of the time my mother was dying in the hospital. This was in Florida and she was in a small ward. I had come down there to be with her and called on the ward to help--nothing. Her neighbors were helping me with my baby, and meals when I was at her apt.
Well, I called the Bishop the night she took a turn for the worse to please come and see her. She had been calling for him. He said he had a family obligation. Next morning she took my hand and said "get the Bishop" those ended up being her last words. I called again, and wife answered that he was at his son's ball game. I said please get him and told her what happened. She said they would be there.
Two hours later--my mom now in a coma--they show up and expect me to be happy to see them. The Bishop said "sorry, my son hit the winning run and we went to get ice cream." Well we were in the lobby, and I said you are too late she is in a coma, and what through me over the edge was the fake "I'm sorry that happened". I let out every swear word I could think of and told them to get the hell out and away from me. Then the wife said" the Relief Socity will dress your mother if you like. I called her the c word, and they literally ran to the elevator. People in the lobby were clapping at what I did as they waited for the elevator to come.
Even now I am tearing up about it.

I'm so sorry. That totally sucks.

You were brave though a very tough situation.

HEART BREAKING-Horrible Man!!!

I have seen this problem up front and center. The main problem I observed was getting anyone to agree to visit someone who was not fully, mentally or physically OK. Women would be assigned to VT and they would not go, have all kinds of excuses.

I was one of maybe two people then only one in the Ward, who would agree to visit women who were not fully functioning for some reason or severely physically handicapped or both.

Members do not know how to deal with anyone who is not mentally functioning. Nor are they willing to go to a prison.

I have seen programs where a couple will accept a "calling" to visit TBM's in prison, for instance. But it's rare. Or they will accept the "calling" and insist they leave a BOM with someone who is mentally functioning at an IQ of under 50 and when presented with the book, tears it up (they cannot read, of course) or tries to eat it.

I tried to get a blessing for my mother - another long story of nobody showing up..... again.

My observation is that Mormons are like the majority of people I have witnessed especially working with the elderly in my own business. People are generally unable to deal with difficult medical situations such as dementia of all sorts, or physical handicaps unless they are a relative and even then they are ill equipped to be useful on any level.

There are an amazing group of people who will work with the elderly caring for them in their group homes, bathe them, etc. Even more rare are the Hospice care takers that will care for people in the dying process.

Other than those specifically able to do those kinds of jobs, there are few who really come through.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2013 01:56PM by SusieQ#1.

Don't want to troll, but I do want to say that I think there are TBMs out there who work really hard to be genuinely good people. This is basically a plug for my TBM mom. She's been assigned as the VT for a mentally ill women for the past twenty years. She's a hoarder/crazy cat lady (bad combo!) with occasional pyschotic breakdowns and an abusive daughter. Over the years my mom has gotten almost all the cats out of the house, cleaned out her garage, made her curtains, routinely makes sure her front yard looks acceptable enough for the HOA, and visited her in the hospital for all her breakdowns. This women eats thanksgiving dinners with us most years (sometimes my mom's long-suffering breaks down, ha!).

I think VT/HT could be really good programs if they were set up a little differently and done with real love. My mom sees herself as this sister's keeper - and for better or for worse has done her best to keep this lady self-sufficient and living in decent conditions.

There is a lot of abuse, un-christlike behavior, and hypocrisy within the church - but then you find little pockets of good humanity like the ward I grew up in. I don't see any hope of my family ever being understanding of me leaving the church, because the church they think they belong to is a good place. A good example of - the people are perfect, but the church isn't. (not the other way around)

I think the biggest problem is that TSCC, which, if it really followed christian teachings, would have this as its main emphasis. Instead of reaching out to the truly needy parts of humanity, good people become all wrapped up in throwing elaborate YW activities about temple marriage, complete with matching place sets. They take all this energy and time and money from people, and turn it into pointless or harmful busy work, focused on appearances. (my mom thinks a lot of it is bullshit, and routinely calls out her priesthood authority... no bishop has ever allowed a YW president to choose her as a counselor - my SAHM, mother of 5, TBM, is too "liberal")

You are right there are exceptionally caring people in the Mormon church. I have been friends for 25 years with 2 of them. But much of the time it is forced caring. It is a job/calling. There are people with compassion and caring and it would not matter if they were Mormon, Evangelical or Atheist. It is just who they are.
The issue is "inspiration" of chosing leadership. It is the luck of the draw so to speak. Not so bad if you are fully functioning married couple with children. Be anything outside the Mormon norm and you could be a "problem" I have sat in counsel meetings where that word was used. People end up being "sheep", "lambs" "children of God" anything that is not an individual. People are not even called by their names. Grow up in that and also the indoctrination and you get that bishop and his wife. They only saw my mom as a the next thing on their list. I think the worst were her last words to get the Bishop. He was her leader and she needed him. His son would go on to hit more homeruns.
But even with that incident, you know what I did? I went home and prayed for forgiveness for doing that and continued to be a strong member of the church for 10 more years.
Thanks all for your words. I am missing her today.

Ha! When my mom died we moved my brother to a retirement apartment complex. He was no longer in my mom's ward, but the complex was right next to the new church. He was there a year and died alone in his apartment. No HTs. No calling. No Bishop contact. No "welcome to the new ward". When we heard of his dire condition we called the Bishop to see what could be done, but there was no contact or any help offered. He had no health ins, no disability, and at 63, no medicare or retirement. He had lived out of the country for much of his adult life and had come home to take care of my mom after my dad died. He was trying to get some things going for income, but they weren't panning out and his personality kept him from keeping a job for very long. He was a performer for most of the years away from home (fans, attention, travel are very addicting) and had come home to realize he couldn't keep it going. Jobs at Walmart were such a let down. Anyway, I think depression kicked in and in addition to his somewhat bizarre personality I think members kept their distance seeing him as some kind of jack-Mormon-heathen nut-job. His roommate found him upon his return from a short trip. Don't know how long he had been there, but it wasn't pretty I heard. It was interesting though. I went there to check on him and finding him in really bad situation, got him food and medicine. I returned home and called family to help out. Namely I called my older brother who was the trustee of my mom's estate to cough up some money to get him some medical attention while they applied for public assistance. No dice. Stingy MotherF*cker. I think he's in the bishoprick in his ward. So this is how members take care of one another. If you're not considered Celestial material - screw you.

So much in the church depends on individual members. Get a good bishop and you might get help when you need it. New bishop gets called and you get nothing. With most of the money going to SLC, the church is not about the local community.

dk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So much in the church depends on individual
> members. Get a good bishop and you might get help
> when you need it. New bishop gets called and you
> get nothing. With most of the money going to SLC,
> the church is not about the local community.


Because the members are volunteers, there is a wide variety of competence and dedication and understanding in the leadership.
We've had very good experiences and rotten experiences - just depends on the person. And it goes on. Some of the behavior of the leaders is appalling, unfeeling, bizarre, and totally outside their own manuals! The explanation? Inspiration!


The top leadership sends everything to the locals and maintains it's all local - however, there needs to be a lot more training and education on how to deal with the leadership callings.

That is true with dealing with the elderly,mentally and physically handicapped members, especially those in specialized homes. There needs to be some training so those assigned are comfortable.

Yes, I agree, there are some very "good" people who do an excellent job of caring for others in their community.

I think it's more accurate to say members are volunteered than volunteers. Too many members get "inspired" callings that they are unsuitable for. Also, why does the church need training when it has pay, pray & obey as an answer to every problem?

during a job shadow I did a few semesters ago, I met an LDS mom who was in a nursing home. She had 10 kids and had just married again after 2 divorces about 6 months ago. Most of her kids were grown and out of the house, but she still had 4 of them at home and they absolutely HATED the guy she married.

She had a knee injury and when they did surgery, they messed it up and made it worse which is why she was at the nursing home. She looked SO frazzled. She was probably 50 but looked 70. She was telling me that she was probably going to make her new husband leave the house because he was verbally abusive to the kids she had left at home. One of them was autistic and he was particularly mean to him. She actually got a call from her kids while I was sitting there and all I could hear was screaming and yelling in the background. It was a mess!

But the highlight of it all was her saying "but, at least my VT's come and see me. My kids can't, but the VT's do."

All I could think was
#1. how sad that no one gives a sh!t about you besides the fakeass VT's who are ASSIGNED to you.
#2. SO glad I'm not you.