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Posted by: Once More ( )
Date: June 07, 2013 03:44PM

Quoting from the article:

"Dalyn Montgomery, who has studied race relations in higher education, believes he knows what to credit for the progress: Mormonism’s structure.

“In both my studies and my experience,” says Montgomery, a white Latter-day Saint married to a black convert in Philadelphia, “the LDS Church is structured better than any institution to overcome racial obstacles.” [end excerpt from the article.]

TSCC ended its ban on blacks in the priesthood on June 8, 1978. Oh, yeah, great evidence of being structured better than other institutions to overcome racial obstacles. /sarcasm

From the comments below the Salt Lake Tribune article:

"The ban was never just simply a ban on the preisthood, but an entire doctrine comprised of Speeches, teachings, and coursework used to justify the Church's abhorrent treatment of Blacks. Relegating these people to that of second class status within the congregation demanded nothing less than an entire regime solely dedicated to this purpose."

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: June 07, 2013 04:13PM

Funny. I know Dalyn's parents, and have met Dalyn and his beautiful wife. I kind of hoped they would have left the church by now and am quite disappointed. I was surprised that his dad, someone I consider to be nice enough but very bigoted, even allowed the marriage. (When I was about to meet Dalyn, his dad prepared me by saying, "I'd better warn you: His wife is a woman of color.") His dad and mom are "preppers" and over-the-top conservatives who hate television and its evil programs and who retired to a log cabin Bo Gritz country (central Idaho) to be around like-minded Mormon preppers. (Bo Gritz was a self-styled American LDS hero, so over-the-top that he resigned from the church when his sedition caused the stake president to revoke his temple recommend.

Dalyn is an entrepreneur and real go-getter. I wish him luck in his obvious bid to reconcile racism and the LDS church.

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Posted by: Once More ( )
Date: June 07, 2013 04:25PM

In response to cludgie's comments above: I'm sure Dalyn would prefer to think that everyone in his mormon community loves and respects his wife. That's human nature.

What got to me was the note that he had studied race relations. All that study apparently left him not entirely conversant with the facts.

Thanks for the info on Dalyn's parents. I guess we have to assume that, considering his parentage, Dalyn could be worse when it comes to being brain washed.

I've heard of, and have read about Bo Gritz. I think there are more of his type in Southern Idaho as well.

What I experience in my community is not that mormon prejudice against people of color has gone away, but rather that mormons have gotten better at hiding their prejudice. This prejudice, (and the accompanying pseudo-science and myth), pops out full force when they think they are speaking to like-minded mormons.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: June 07, 2013 04:37PM

Yeah. They're still friends, although I no longer am in communication with them. They are just too devoted to the church for me to deal with all the LDS drivel. I'm so fatigued with all that. Then there is the constant complaint about the state of the world and particularly the state of America. There's the whole End of the World stuff. And I don't understand anything that even comes close to racism.

Dalyn and his wife are great, and his mom and dad have some real great other kids, too, who have made some interesting lives for themselves. I am thankful for the ways that they have helped me in the past.

You are really right when you say that Mormons have gotten better at hiding the prejudice. But I, myself, feel so guilty for buying into it while growing up in the 1960s. Even way back then, however, we were required to explain the doctrine (yes, it was "doctrine") when we were preparing an investigator for baptism. Now Mormons are completely dishonest about it when even asked.

Edited to replace confusing pronoun.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2013 04:44PM by cludgie.

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Posted by: Senoritalamanita ( )
Date: June 07, 2013 04:33PM

Welcome to the capital of Mormonthink, please set your clock back 170 years.

Our motto: We lynch with love

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Posted by: de ja vue ( )
Date: June 07, 2013 06:02PM

I have a question. I have had a good friend for over 20 years who just "came out" and told me she was a racist. I was blown away. Her son is a White Supremicist.

Whan another friend of ours told her she was wanting to date a black person, this friend exploded and really laid into her saying that since this other friend was from Oklahoma, (whatever that means) that she of all people should "know" better. When the other friend responded, saying she didn't know that this friend was predjudice to the first friend replied, "I AM NOT PREJUDICE! I'M RACIST.

I didn't know there was a difference. That comes to my question. Can someone please enlighten me? Is there a difference? What is it? Why would she think one is better than the other?

BTW, we are no longer friends. Her chosing, not mine. Just as well I guess. I told her I did not understand her position and to please explain if she would. She sent me an email telling me to go to hell. She was now off the grid as far as I was concerned. She tried blaming me for not seeing her points. Haven't heard from her since. I never attacked her in any way, just said I didn't understand racism and simply asked her to explain it to me. I was trying to be nice, not confrontational.

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Posted by: Once More ( )
Date: June 07, 2013 11:05PM

White supremacists have all kinds of rationals to offer for their particular brand of dogma. Promoting the white race is one of them. They equate civil rights for the white race with the civil rights struggles of African Americans.

To do this, they have to ignore a lot of facts, but that's one way in which they claim to be "racist," as in being for the survival of their own race, which, they say, is not being prejudicial against blacks or anyone else.

Separation of the races is good for everyone, even blacks, they claim. Most of them say separation of the races is also God's will. They ignore DNA evidence of our common ancestry, and they ignore how thin the argument for "race" is as a concept.

It's a twisted world view. You can't really argue with them.

Some of them still think the "Protocols of Zion" is a legitimate book and not a hoax, few chrissakes. The ignorance is deep.

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Posted by: Once More ( )
Date: June 08, 2013 01:04PM

Arrgh, typos, I hates 'em.

I typed "rationals" when I meant rationales.

mea culpa

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Posted by: Lady Willpower ( )
Date: June 07, 2013 06:02PM

I think, if I had investigated before 1978, there's no way I would have joined. Even post-1978, I had trouble accepting that bigotry had been part of the codified history.

(Note - now it appears my screen name is back to two words, with caps. I am confused.

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Posted by: philabooks ( )
Date: June 09, 2013 04:42PM

This is fascinating. I have been working on a story for the Philadelphia City Paper, about the LDS's increased presence here, as they are building a temple in Center City. I have contacted many scholars - such as Armand Mauss - who is cited in the article, and Darrin Smith who co-edited a book called Black and Mormon. I've also been in touch with the LDS press people but, as you would expect, they are trying to get me in touch with African American LDS members who are in high-standing positions and have reconciled the church's history.

I'm getting a much different perspective from Darrin Smith, who has talked a lot about never being able to reconcile with the faith's past, and that the new temple being built in Philadelphia, a city with a very large African American community should (but might not) signal the church moving to embrace African Americans more fully.

Would any one here know any local Philadelphia ex-LDS voices who might contribute to the other side of this story? The media seems very sympathetic to the LDS message.

You can contact me at mbuozis (at)

Best Regards,


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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: June 09, 2013 06:02PM

I listened to Darron Smith on Mormon Expression and also on Mormon Stories. I got the feeling he is trying to change LDS perceptions from the inside. It seemed more like he wanted to convert Mormons to rational nonracism than that he actually believed specifically in Mormonism. His opinions of early church prophets seemed incompatible with belief that they are what they claim to be, and that Mormonism is the one true religion.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: June 09, 2013 04:46PM


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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: June 09, 2013 06:06PM

Exactly. And there have been various incidents where Church leaders have ordered segregation within chapels during meetings and barred black soldiers from using facilities that had been offered to white soldiers. I think Steve Benson posted details on these incidents IIRC.

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Posted by: philabooks ( )
Date: June 10, 2013 11:52AM

I'm having a little trouble finding Steve Benson's comments. Does anyone have a link to them?

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Posted by: Once More ( )
Date: June 10, 2013 01:25PM

More links to posts from Steve Benson, as requested by philabooks:,773520 (scroll down to see the section "SKOUSEN'S INCENDIARY CLAIM THAT COMMUNISTS WERE BEHIND ATTACKS ON THE MORMON CHURCH'S RACIST ANTI-BLACK DOCTRINE" This link was posted above, but I wanted to add it again because it is the "EZRA TAFT BENSON: MORMONISM�S PROPHET, SEER AND RACE BAITER (Part One)" post -- perhaps the most relevant?

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: June 09, 2013 08:31PM

The "structure" that the Mormon Church has for overcoming
racism is the expectation of strict, lock-step obedience from
the members. Then they just tell them not to be racist.

Another aspect is the idea that you have to attend the ward in
your ward boundary--you have not choice where to attend so you
may be forced to attend a multi-racial congregation.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2013 08:32PM by baura.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: June 10, 2013 12:58AM

some people... racists... would RESENT THAT 100%

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Posted by: Once More ( )
Date: June 10, 2013 09:02PM

One more link to a past post by Steve Benson:,794282,794330#msg-794330

"PROOF--A History of Hate: The Utah Mormon Church's , Bigoted and Anti-Civil Rights Attitudes, Teachings and Practices Targeting African-Americans Under Its Supposed "Control" . . ."

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