She responded to my email requesting the VT to stop. She was slightly passive aggressive. She claimed she didn't call me to respond because, "you can't see tears through an email".

She then admitted that I had told her from day one that I didn't want a VT, and that she had asked to be friends and that she had not kept that promise etc..

I was impressed that she admitted that. She knew damn well that I had said NO VT and she did it anyway, deceitfully. I was just surprised she admitted it.

Then she said how much she loves me and cares about me and that church is a huge part of her life and of course she wants to share that with me.

She also said she's confused. Since church is such a big part of her life, how do we work around that? Which seemed code for I'm not going to remain your friend. She said she doesn't know how we could be friends if she can't talk about church, well she implied that.

DH then had the nerve to try to make me feel guilty. He asked why I had done this (he knew full well) and what's the big deal in her reporting our lunches as VT when I'd stated I didn't want a VT. I was so mad at him! About a year ago I told him I thought she was secretly VT me and he told me, "oh she would never do that!" He claims to not remember that conversation and even though he ended up telling me to do what I needed to do, I'm left feeling like he thinks I'm wrong. That upsets me. I have trouble standing up for myself and when I finally do he makes me feel like a mean person.

Who wants a "friend" who is assigned to visit. That's not a friend. I am glad you stood up for yourself. Hopefully this woman will have the courage to actually try and be a friend with or without the church involved.

Keep us up to date, if she trys to engage you in other activities.

I remember reading your first post, so I remember the back story.

Thank you! I really think I did the right thing. It does sadden me to know that not only didn't DH support me in this, but he made me feel 10x worse. Saying,"so what if she reports it as a VT?" That hurt. To me that translates to; I should continue to go to lunches and listen to her Mormon agenda and should shut up and be polite.

It pains me that he thinks I matter so little. I guess I don't see how I can look at what he said any other way.

I am sorry, well just remember, be patient with him. When you are in the mind set of Mormonism, normal ethical logic escapes you if it contradicts anything with the church. He is probably reacting defensively because he feels threatened. He probably thinks its hard to apologize for anyone supposedly acting in favor of the church. It's a horrible mind set to be in, and I am ashamed to admit I was in that state of mind at one point in my life.

The mormon church puts critical thinking skills into remission. Sometimes reasonable judgement is out the door.

Thank you again! I appreciate hearing that, about the mindset. I just have to keep that upfront. DH is a good guy and he hasn't been to church in over 2 months, but he's still got that thought process. I'm still happy I did this! I needed to do it! This board gave me my courage back. :-)))

Only two months? That's nothing. It does usually take (much) longer to dust off the mormon thinking. Baby steps, and all that.

Congrats on standing up for what you want and not letting your friend (?) step all over you, even claiming she wants to be your real friend. I doubt that, though. Sounds more like she really thinks highly of herself, VTing an inactive person, in a covert way. That's actually unethical.


(P.S. Sorry if my English sounds weird, ESL.)

jl1718 said it right. And I will add that I think in the Mormon lexicon the term "love" has a very different meaning from the rest of us.

"Love" has a lot of meanings (I love my wife. I love my kids. I love staring at the Milky Way. I love Coke slushies, I love my Volvo, and I love flying.) But Mormonism hijacks the word, knowing we will impute that kind of meaning to it. In fact to them it is used as a lure.

I'll go out on a limb and say she loves you only inasmuch as you are willing to be a recruitment project for her.

She wants to be seen as nice, but she's dishing out guilt and anger in the most overt way she can without seeming rude.

Sorry, but I don't care for this woman.

I agree Cheryl. The more I was around her the more P/A she was and the more the bitterness seeped out of her. She's struggling to maintain the facade, but it's cracking. 30 years of her agendas and checklists and projects are taking a toll.

I was amused at the email. The tears part, how much she loves me and wants to share the gospel...

Please, she got called out and was embarrassed. She knew she was dead wrong.

I don't like the mormon habit of blaming others for someone letting their emotions run wild.

Everyone has a 100% right to responsibly live their life as they choose. If casual aquaintances cry and turn crazy over it, too bad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2013 02:15PM by Cheryl.

The tears part is total manipulation. You don't need an assigned friend, and you definitely don't need an assigned friend that is manipulative like that.

She says she emailed instead of called because email hides the tears? If she wanted to hide the tears, why did she email AND tell you about the tears in the email? Because it's a humble-brag. She's bragging about how deep and sincere she is. "I care so much about you I burst into tears about you! Aren't I so sensitive, caring, and wonderful?" It's like the men-crying in every speech, especially about their wives. Nothing says self-regarding a-hole like that does.

tapirsaddle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The tears part is total manipulation. You don't
> need an assigned friend, and you definitely don't
> need an assigned friend that is manipulative like
> that.

Yeah, and it smacks of, "How dare you make me feel badly, even when I'm deliberately doing something that you asked me not to do."

Good for you. Sorry about your husband not having your back.

Just make her pay for lunch each time.

That is fair :)

I did the same thing. Told them I didn't need or want VTers as I saw these same people two or more times a week, I had their number, if I needed anything I would call.

I didn't want what I called: assigned friends!

Then they asked later if I'd accept them. I said I would.
But it was another fiasco.
I did not have time to sit and listen to someone read the lesson to me, as I had the same lesson and had shared it with others but in a way that was part of the conversation!

It was OK to stop by for a short visit, know that I can read the material, and had done so, and just chat for awhile about our lives. That is all that is needed especially when we all have very busy lives.

You also can't see the *lack* of tears in an email

Bingo.

+ 10000
Ha! That's the truth!

You did the right thing and you are not crazy, do not let anyone tell you to disregard your common sense.

Why would a 20 years older woman zero in on you without some ulterior motive?
You have nothing in common and most Mormons are too busy to do lunch anyway.

It's a manipulative cult and you caught on.
This is reason enough to refuse any further interaction with Mormons.
Problem solved.

I think you did an excellent job of standing up for yourself. It might hurt right now not getting support from your husband, but he may come around and realize you did the right thing. Remember, Mormons aren't big on doing the right and moral thing when it comes to non members. It happens a lot, they just want to brush their shoe soles on you like a doormat.

If you care to respond to her, you could bring up the fact that you think the church is wrong and want to share your reasons for leaving with her. Where do you go from there? How can you be friends and not share such an important issue with her? I mean, really? Tit for tat. And tell her you don't appreciate her manipulation tactics. Friends don't manipulate like that, they are more subtle:).

I think this may be a huge break through for you to just be able to tell these Mormons to shove it. You have so much going on in your life that has nothing to do with their religion and it is sad that they can't or won't relate to that. Nothing says cult like having nothing else to talk about but your cult. Seriously!

"Can't see tears through an email"...
That's a pretty open attempt to emotionally manipulate you.
Be patient with your hubby. Defending the church and the people in it becomes so ingrained that it becomes reflexive. Even people here do it sometimes.
However, you have taken control of the relationship terms, and both she and he need to respect that. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be friends, and friends know how to respect each other's boundaries. Religion is a very intimate issue for people, so her going on about it would be akin to you blabbing about your sex life to her. It's one thing if you ask what she did on Saturday and she told you she did a church project. It's a whole other thing to turn that into proselytizing.

I was toying with emailing her back, but I don't really have much to say. She turned it around and tried to emotionally blackmail me. She made it known that she has no interest in being friends with me except for church points, although it was very subtle.

I can't believe I put up with this for close to two years!

charpop705 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I can't believe I put up with this for close to
> two years!

I can't believe my wife and I put up with the whole scam for nearly 40 years. So glad to be out!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2013 03:22PM by left4good.

40 years! Oh I can't even imagine! It's amazing how the time gets away from you and then one day you're like wtf am I doing!

"can't see tears through an email"

My response would be a sarcastic "Oh, please!" with the subtext being "What do you take me for" An idiot"

Let this woman fade into her interior woodwork.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2013 03:53PM by bordergirl.

I was almost embarrassed for her. I mean it's so fake and disingenuous. Really? You're crying because I don't want you to VT me? Wow.

"LOL! You're crying because I don't have time for you to VT me? Wow, LOL But think of the gift of free time you'll have. I'll think you could find comfort in that."

Lol! Exactly! I'm helping her out!

I've never known a Mormon who thinks it's 'ok' to upset the status quo. Mormons don't think anyone should buck the system or be 'different'. Thus the reaction of DH. I absolutely agree with what you did. Stand up for the principle.

Assigned feelings. Assigned knowledge. Assigned thoughts. Assigned underwear. Assigned family (home evening) time. Assigned prayers. Assigned meetings. Assigned lessons.

... Assigned Friends.


What's so new here?

MY 2 cents...I assume there really isn't any malice beyond just being stuck in the catch22 of being assigned to VT you and then have you say no VTing but you can visit. For a mormon that gives her an in and she's going to exploit that hoping for the "miracle" to happen. Either way, you set the boundaries and she violated those boundaries that were set up front. That is wrong. As for whether or not you can be friends just tell her that although you understand the church is important to her, it is upsetting and painful for you. If she can only talk about the source of your pain then perhaps its better you go your separate ways. I know I wouldn't want to be constantly reminded of my abuser. If she expects you to respect her as a person then she needs to reciprocate. If that isn't possible then obviously you two are not meant to be friends, which is why everyone else in the world CHOOSES their friends.

I was thinking about the other thread, why are Mormons passive-aggressive. I think this is a good example of why. Everyone is so controlling in order to feel good about themselves. In every situation, everyone's got an assigned role. Someone bucks the role and no one knows how to respond, even the role bucker doesn't know what to expect from everyone else. Every little interaction turns into an emotional sh$t-storm, so it's natural to avoid any kind of confrontation of any kind ("confrontation" is even too big a word, more like "tiny interaction").

One person says you can visit but no VT. Like, big deal. But suddenly everyone's at each other's throat. The yes-VT woman goes on her merry way and VT's. The no-VT person reiterates her stance, which embarrasses the yes-VT, who overreacts. The husband, embarrassed for the embarrassment of the yes-VT, chooses the wrong side and the no-VT person's mad at him, for making her feel wrong to have said no-VT in the first place and for trying to make it stick. This is truly a tempest in a teapot but for all the emotional energy invested in it one would think there's actually some consequence to any of it. But it's completely inconsequential. No wonder everyone's avoidant. The smallest incidents set off colossal bombs, setting everyone against each other.

That was an awesome way to break it down! :-)
And I see what you're saying, but it's not inconsequential to me. I finally am free! She's not going to stop by my house unannounced, no more stupid treats, no more aggressive hounding to meet for lunch, no more making up excuses so I don't have to deal with her!

And no more undercover VT! Plus, I never wanted to be friends. She hounded me until I was backed into a corner and felt I had to go to lunch and then it just snowballed. I'm done being that person. I don't owe her or the church a minute of my time! :-)))