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Posted by: wellsville ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 06:27AM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700103390/14-million-Mormons-and-counting.html

I do not view the LDS as a major faith like Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pentecostals, etc but some tiny group from UT.

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Posted by: ipseego ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 06:34AM

The Seventh Day Adventists claim 15,921,408 members as of Dec 31, 2008, see
http://www.adventist.org/world-church/facts-and-figures/index.html .

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Posted by: fmrly ExmoinCO ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 06:47AM

What a stinkin' pile of B.S. I'll take the LDS membership claims seriously when they disclose how many people resign their memberships alongside how converts they baptize.

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Posted by: wellsville ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 06:51AM

Due to natural population growth, they may get to 50million but 280million is being quite generous with their estimates

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Posted by: Jon ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 07:11AM

14,000,000 members means that 14,000,000 have been baptised and are classed as 'alive' today. The Church only removes people from the record after they reach the age of 110 (they assume they are dead at this point). This figure does not reflect either the number of members who are active (attending regularly) in the Church nor the number of members who are full active (hold a temple reccommend). Both of these numbers will be significantly less than 50% of the total membership number quoted above.

14,000,000 is less than the number of people living in London.

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Posted by: Jon ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 07:16AM

More people attend Old Trafford to watch Manchester United play football (soccer if you prefer) each game than attend Sacrament Meeting in the whole of the UK each Sunday...

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 08:11AM

Okay...Let's take their word for it. They're growing and a major religion.

To many of us, that's like saying the lower class is growing and crime is a major institution. I should cheer about that?


I'm waiting for the announcement that says: People are getting smarter and agnosticism is a major belief.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 08:13AM by Jesus Smith.

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Posted by: Dances with Cureloms ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 09:46AM

that says IQ points in America have been growing 2 or 3 points over the past few generations. I'll try to find the link.

Although not a major movement, atheism and agnosticism is happening. Give it time.

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Posted by: Jim Huston ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 08:24AM

Stark's numbers have been kicked around for years. They were based on projected compounding growth experienced in the 1960-1980 period. The growth has significantly diminished and only the Mormons believe the numbers now. At Scott Trotter's growth rate of 1 million every three years, there would be another 23 million added in the next 70 years. The growth rate is not compounding, it is decreasing. Graph it out and it becomes very apparent.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 09:24AM

There are about 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world, a BILLION or so Catholics, a billion or so atheists, 900 million Hindus, 380 million Buddhists, 23 million Sikhs. There are 3.5 times as many Baptists just in the US than there are Mormons in the entire world. And the percentage of LDS growth is just keeping pace with global population growth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 09:27AM by Stray Mutt.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 09:34AM

There were never any plates, Peter James and John were an afterthought, and the First Vision contradicts original mormon scriptures, and before Moroni was an Angel of the Lord, he was described as a small man, a tall man, a bloody spaniard, and a man dressed like a Quaker, and all of these personas were associated with being a treasure guardian, and last but not least, before the plates were a history of the peoples of this land, they were going to be the key (revealed in a dream) to finally obtaining the slippery treasures that Joseph would seek using the same stone that he would later use for the Book of Mormon.

So yeah, pump up those numbers, recruit every living being and lead them bound in flaxen cords carefully down to Hell.

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Posted by: Glo ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 09:43AM

Mormonism is NOT seen as a religion by other churches.

They see it as a movement whose doctrine is syncretism.
In other words, Mormonism was cobbled together by borrowing from various other sources.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 07:34PM

and 1000 times the risk.

Step to the right ladies and gentleman, leave your wallet with us and take your blessings with you to view the diorama of your Last Days as a free person.

We will do the judging! We will do the tallying! We will decide your worthiness, and then finally, circle around to the left and pass through the body scanner. A handsome, temple worker dressed in white will be viewing your genitals through a giant hat.



Anagrammy

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Posted by: mrtranquility ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 10:28AM

Activity rates in Central and South American countries are 11-25%. That's right folks, the high is 25%! Their work there primarily serves the function of bolstering the faith of the already converted so that they'll cough up more tithing.

That article is such a propaganda puff piece. What a huge lie to promote an image that LDS, Inc. is going gangbusters when it's just a regional fringe religion puttering along at best.

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Posted by: Jon ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 10:47AM

Can you reference your source for the 11-25% activity rates?

I'm not doubting you but I am interested in quoting the source.

Thanks

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Posted by: mrtranquility ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 03:09PM

My source is from part two of this interview (if I remember correctly): http://mormonstories.org/?p=347

Lyon speaks from the horse's mouth as a former MP and Temple President in Chile. He's the accidental academic caught up in LDS Inc.'s web of attorneys and MBAs. They must have overlooked him and forget to tell him to zip it if it's anything less than faith-promoting.

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Posted by: Mo Larkey ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 10:47AM

That means everyone since 1901 is still being counted as well?

How many Mo's have passed on since 1901? subtract that from

14 million.

Also...I know for a fact that none of the people baptized are active any more.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 04:44PM

Not everyone, Mo Larkey. Just the people for whom they don't have any direct evidence of death. Supposedly.

So if someone baptized in 1901 immediately went inactive, went missing, and never reported their death to SLC, then they would still be counted on the roles until today, or until they would have been 110.

Supposedly. Is there really some mega membership clerk keeping track of all those 110 year olds? Is there even anyone keeping track of all the reported deaths?

With Moism, who knows?

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 10:59AM

More baptisms are only valid if the members actually stay around.

http://cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles

http://cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles&story_id=39

Over the short term, administrative policies can affect congregational numbers, but over the medium and long term, congregational numbers will always adjust to reflect the realities of actual member participation and convert retention. For instance, during the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s, many congregations and stakes were formed in Latin America on the basis of raw membership numbers without regard to very low convert retention rates that followed the practice of quickly baptizing inadequately prepared converts with little oversight. The artificially inflated congregational numbers came crashing down between 2000 and 2005, when approximately 1,000 congregations were collapsed throughout Latin America. When missionary work is successful and baptized converts are retained, sustainable new congregations are inevitably created; when congregational numbers are stagnant in spite of significant increases in nominal membership, that is a sign that few of the baptized converts remain active in the church.

http://cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles&story_id=21

Third, the LDS missionary program has not been as effective in either the United States or in international areas as one would like to believe. Although convert baptisms outpace baptisms of member children by a factor of nearly three to one worldwide and are near parity in the United States, more than three-quarters of Americans identifying themselves as Latter-day Saints in independent sociologic studies are lifelong members. Such figures imply very high attrition of U.S. converts, as most nominal converts fail to become active or participating members. Data from Latin America, the Philippines, and other international areas demonstrate that three quarters of converts are entirely lost to the church within a year after baptism. While raw LDS membership numbers may appear impressive on paper, these numbers have only a fractional relationship to the far more modest number of converts who have experienced a genuine, lasting, and life-changing conversion and who experience the blessings of active participation in the work of the Church. The available evidence suggests that the primary responsibility for these fractional retention rates lie with quick-baptize tactics which have traditionally focused more on meeting monthly baptismal goals than on ensuring that converts have been adequately prepared for baptism. Recent missionary program changes with the "Preach My Gospel" manual have led to at least some improvements in these trends, although significant problems and challenges remain unaddressed.

http://cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles&story_id=14

CUNY American Religious Identification Survey

The City University of New York (CUNY) American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) queried the self-identified religious affiliation of a large cohort of U.S. citizens in 1990 and 2001.[7] The study found that the LDS Church had one of the highest turnover rates of any U.S. faith. The CUNY authors observe: "Some groups such as Mormons ... rate in the number of Americans identifying themselves as Latter-day Saints appear to attract a large number of converts ('in-switchers'), but also nearly as large a number of apostates ('out-switchers')."

Because of high turnover, the actual growth between 1990 and 2001 was found to be similar to the overall population growth rate, for a proportional net growth rate of close to zero. The study found that just fewer than 2.8 million Americans age eighteen and over identified themselves as Latter-day Saints.

There are 5.3 million U.S. citizens officially on LDS membership rolls, although this includes a declining percentage of minors under age eighteen as well as many inactive and disengaged adults. In contrast, the ARIS survey reported that 1.33 million adults in the U.S. identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses, while the Jehovah's Witnesses claim only 980,000 U.S. members.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 12:15PM


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Posted by: Rebeckah ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 11:09AM

It's just that weird American religion/cult to most of the world.

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Posted by: bookish ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 12:12PM

Some of the people who commented on that article insist that people who resign are not counted in membership numbers. Do you guys think this is true? It was one of the main reasons I made the effort to resign, but now I suspect they never actually subtract those numbers.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 12:20PM

Lay a little guilt on those that leave, carry on like you're a big shot, puff yourself up to make you bigger than you are.
Since we know the LDS Church doesn't get rid of records, once you are baptized --- always a member -- resign -- go into the

]".......membership record which lists my ward as "Excommunicated Records" and my stake as "Church Membership System". ]
(see londonuk post - Jan 21)

Excommunicated members are counted as the idea of excommunication is to repent and return in full fellowship.

I'm convinced they count every single baptism for 110 years as a member and that is how they get to 14 mil.

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Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 04:15PM

I looked up major religions by size and found that Mormonism is classified as a sect of Christianity (and of Masonry, I would add). There are 2.1 billion Christians as noted. By saying that Jesus is their leader, and worshiping him, the Mormons have thrown in with the Christians. They just happen to be weirder than mainstream Christians. As an exmormon, that's my opinion.

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Posted by: Misfit ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 05:26PM

Its a slow work day, so I just looked up the corporation's stats for 2010 & 2009. Corporation growth rate from 2009 to 2010 was 1.01%, just barely keeping up with the world growth rate of 1.1%. From 2008 to 2009, there was a net increase of just under 400,000 members. If it took to July 2010 to get to 14,000,000 members, which is 175,000 more than the numbership of 13,825,000 reported Dec. 31, 2009, that would indicate a slowdown in the church growth rate. A steady growth rate from 2009 going into 2010 would have seen 200,000 more members by June of 2010.
This corroborates the research quoted by JoD. The church is barely keeping up with the population growth rate, even with a convert/BIC ration of 3 to 1, and its mainly due to attrition. We are truly not alone!

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 07:58PM

If LDS Inc is growing by 1.01% (which is about how fast the number of stakes/wards is growing) and world population growth is 1.1%, then LDS Inc is NOT just barely keeping up with world population growth.

In fact, it is significantly below world population growth.

The ratio of the world population growth rate to the LDS growth rate is:
1.1 / 1.01 = 1.0891. IOW, the world population growth rate is 8.91% higher than the Mormon growth rate. That is a very big deal, and if those percentages persist, or get worse, LDS Inc is and will continue to shrink as a percentage of the world population. The shrinkage will be slow, but inexorable.

Couldn't happen to a nicer cult.

BTW, I do expect the percentages to get worse for LDS Inc.

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Posted by: Packleader ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 05:33PM

That number, no doubt, is based on all baptized and non-baptized members---and they're trying hard to verify that number because the recent census numbers don't jive with their numbers (imagine that).

My husband was married to a Mormon woman, and two of their three children were baptized in the church. He was not, and neither was the youngest. His wife died, and he married me, and I have been the children's mother for the past 15 years (His oldest is 24, the youngest is 21).

In the time that I've known them, they haven't set foot in the LDS church. About ten years ago, the County Librarian (LDS) approached my step-daughters while they were studying in the library, and told them they should be attending relief society. Needless to say, my husband and I were both furious. We wrote letters to Salt Lake City asking for their names to be removed from the rolls. The letter was notarized and everything. Their response? They couldn't take the kids' names out of the rosters because the kids didn't request it (the kids were 11-14 at the time). They also said that since my husband was not a baptized member of the church, he did not have "religious custody." What the hell is that? Do they make this stuff up as they go along? Our kids grew up, and at 18, they all requested to be removed, did the whole notarized thing and so forth, and received word that they had been removed.

But it's not true. Just last week, I got a phone call from "Bishop Jones" or someone in Salt Lake City saying that he was trying to update all the records and they wanted a current contact number for all the members of the church. They needed our #2 daughter and her younger brother---who was never baptized in the church. When I told him that they had legally requested to have their names removed, he said that the decision to be Mormon was a permanent one, and couldn't be "Undone." I asked him, then, why was my son---who was five the last time he was in the LDS church---on the rosters. The dude said, "I'd bet that a family member requested baptism by proxy because he was so young."

So, basically---as I understand it--- the numbers can keep growing because anyone can be put into the church "by proxy" but you need to die to get out.

No, this isn't cultish at all!

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Posted by: Suckafoo ( )
Date: January 24, 2011 06:27PM

Most non Mormons see it as a cult, and not another Christian religion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 06:28PM by suckafoo.

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