This is going to have to happen sooner then later. With security guards harassing potential costumers for having facial hair or wearing short shorts, thus driving away business, plus the stupid, shops must be closed on Sunday rule, the vendors are going to finally have enough, and either threaten to pull out, or actually go through with pulling out.

I predict they will, or have already presented the church with a list of demands. These will not probably be made public, but will consist of thing like,

(1) A demand that a third party management company be placed in charge of running the mall, and that this company be found out of state.

(2) That the actual head managers themselves be brought in from out of state (code word for being non-Mormons)

(3) That a private security firm be hired to run City Creeks mall security needs, that this firm have a proven tract record, and, you guessed it, be headquartered out of state.

(4) Finally, the church lift it's band on the mall being closed on Sundays.

I base this on the fact that vendor's tend to mutiny on mall management for a whole lot less serious problems then what City Creek is going through. I wouldn't be surprised if the lawyers are already sending a flood of letters back and forth to each other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 10:00AM by forbiddencokedrinker.

I suppose members are asked to 'clean' the mall on Saturday mornings? LOL!

Third party management is in charge of daily management it is Taubman who develops and manages lots of malls and other mixed development projects. I believe it is just that tscc owns the majority of the development and gets to set the rules.

But who owns that company? If Mormons are involved, that would also go a long way to explain why things are being done so Mormonicly.

Looking it up it is mostly large fund companies and investment banks. Vanguard funds (various funds) owns the largest block at a bit over 11%. they are based out of Michigan if I remember correctly.

Let us all hope for an enormous bust! Wasting that much money is ridiculous and rarely seen outside of the government...I hope it falls flat and gets bought out by westcor, with extended Sunday hours, and all "out of state" shareholders.

Btw, I posted on the other mall thread, but did you ever catch your curelom?

You're kidding me! They are "harassing potential costumers for having facial hair or wearing short shorts"??!! Is there documentation on this? How can they possibly stay in business doing this?

Some people on here are saying that this happened. It probably is happening to a small degree. I have a fairly large beard, wear shorts and do not look like a Mormon in the slightest and I've never been talked to or followed.

I was even able to try on a really expensive Rolex. I could never afford something like that so I walked to one of my favorite bars, which is about a block away, and drowned my sorrows with beer. :)

I just stumbled on the thread:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,923273

It looks like they're starting to show their true elitist colors. The church wants to attract rich, corporate types so that they will join and pay up. Disgusting. I will never go there if I'm ever in Utah again.

The vendors probably signed something, though. With the savvy Mormon legal team of McConkie & Brethren, I'm sure that the church made it pretty tight. There is probably a hefty fine or something if vendors pull out--or even if they complain.

I visited the mall and no one noticed my nose ring...I was actually hoping they would so I'd have something to post here.

The mall would make a killing on Sundays. It doesn't make sense the church doesn't tap into "heathen" money a bit more.

It looks as though Taubman is set up to take the fall, at least as far as the vendors.

How are sales of the condos doing?

The vendors might be in a well-locked down contract now, but they can and probably will vote with their feet when it comes time to renew. The place could end up being a ghost town in a few years. Before that happy day arrives, I really want to go to the mall on a busy Saturday afternoon, look around, not buy anything, and make loud disdainful comments about the misuse of tithing funds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 11:15AM by stbleaving.

I can't believe that they are doing this.

I propose that some enterprising person in the Salt Lake area recruit as many facial-haired, tattooed, and short-shorted people as they can to go in the mall with hidden cameras and form two groups:

1. One group who are told to act like they are rich and intent on buying something.

2. Another group to just walk around like they are window shopping.

Both groups, once separated into smaller groups of two, three, or walking around solo, should remain calm, quiet, and respectful of all other shoppers. They should refrain from swearing, "loud laughter," and dirty, sarcastic, or negative references. I would like to see how many are harrassed between Groups 1 and 2. Then they could compile the videos and put it up on YouTube. Let the vendors see what's happening.

I just can't imagine any businessmen trying to pull a stunt like this in a metropolitan area.

I went with a friend to a high-priced antique shop in New York on New Year's Eve. They had clocks in there that look like they were lifted from Versailles. One of them cost about $200,000. We walked around in jeans and ski jackets hoping not to bump into anything. No one gave us a single dirty look, much less harrassment. There were plenty of other proles in there with us. That's how you stay in business.

My gut tells me what is happening is that a bunch of Mormonic security guards are taking it upon themselves to protect the Lord's Holy Shopping Mall. There is probably a fair mix between those who see everything according to the BYU Honor Code, and those who realize management does not want the Rocky Mountain Taliban patrolling the store fronts. It probably depends on who is working what shift, rather or not you will get hassled.

I still think a vital part of this equation is the condo occupancy %. Chances are TSCC is banking on that category for most of their profits.

As far as the vendors go, the key to understanding this would include how many years the initial (guaranteed) period of their retail leases is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 11:22AM by guynoirprivateeye.

Taubman in essence owns the mall. The church entered into an operating agreement with taubman as soon as the project was finished. Taubman acquired those rights for 276m.

The church owns the ground lease and negotiated the ccrs, but that is the only control the church has.

Most high malls have strict rules. This isn't any different that most malls.

At this point the church already lost their money in the mall, and lots of it. At this point the falure or success of the mall will mostly just effect taubman. That being said, they acquired the operating rights at a very good price and most tenants are locked in to 20 year leases. so if tenants want to leave, they will have to pay a large early termination fee.

As a business owner, I can tell you the normal lease time for business in a mall is about 5 years.

I suspect they needed the leases longer because they're worried about continued operation. Rather frightening how they're running this mall in much the same way as they try to run your life once you're in.

Well of course they made them sign 20 year contracts. This is going to be the mall where Jesus reappears. You wan't him doing so in a second rate mall that has all run down shops?

office leases may be 5 years. but retail leases in major malls are a minimum of 10 years, but most are 20.

I represent many national retailers, I know what I am talking about.

I'm not pro church in this issue, I just think we need to be factual, otherwise we sound like a bunch of cry babies.

The church already lost their money in this venture, if the development costs figures are correct, they may be down 1 billion dollars.

Taubman is a very competent, but somewhat corrupt mall owner. They took the church to the cleaners.

That was my take in that Taubman was the management of the mall but had to agree to some morg imposed covenants in the operating lease agreement. In exchange Taubman took the morg to the cleaners financially.

Haven't they learned anything from the Great Depression?

The top 1-10% richest people simply cannot buy enough goods to sustain an economy.
For that you always need a thriving middle class.

Problem is, too many Mormons are not thriving because their church sucks them dry.
How are they expected to the mall going?

Funny. When Jesus arrives, he will have to get a suit and haircut, shave, and some shoes. Gotta look spiffy Mormon style if you live in Utah ya know! Lol!

wjd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funny. When Jesus arrives, he will have to get a
> suit and haircut, shave, and some shoes. Gotta
> look spiffy Mormon style if you live in Utah ya
> know! Lol!


That's a set-up for a YouTube video, right there, that is.

Scene: Jesus returns, but before His big PR interview, He needs to "spiff up"...unfortunately, the only mall He can get to in time is City Creek; hilarity ensues when the first security guard shows up.

It can look something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWWIvTh3D8

I am doubtful that there is any enforcement at City Creek for appearance, etc. My Wife and I were there two weeks ago for dinner and saw people of all stripes casually meandering around there. I don't think I saw the kind of crowd for a nice summer weekend that could sustain the mall, and that was sort of interesting, but of the people I did see there were many with tank tops, short shorts, tattoos, facials hair, piercings, etc. It didn't appear that they were not welcome there. It does clearly cater to the super wealthy, as most of the stores were high end retail, or over priced restaurants. It's mostly overpriced clothing, sunglasses, fun-twined linens and precious apparels, cauls shaped like the moon, mufflers, and ornaments. That kind of stuff. The irony is mindboggling.

That is the store that is driving the City Creek bus.

Kirton,McConkie & Jesus probably had to work miracles to get them to switch from Gateway to a place that is closed on Sunday!

Hi All,
Just did a bit of research, that is trying to find th elatest news on City Creek and it , sadly, seems to be going quite well.

Would be nice to get the stories where non-folloers were followed and stalked to a ligitamate press

I understand that with some stores they waived rent for a number of years as an inducement. Thus, the Apple Store was persuaded to move from Gateway to the Lard's Mall. Money talks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 05:06PM by james.

I found this:
http://deadmalls.com/

Yeah, if this happened it would obviously be their own fault anyway for building this huge conflict of interest.